Damages to our property and declined CC!

42 replies [Last post]
Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

Folks who stayed at one of our river cottages broke two of our kayak paddles. Said they'd pay for the damages. Just charge the card, they said.

Processed the $70 charge through ResKey after they left. Response was "declined".

Logged onto Authorize.net that we use to handle ResKey charges. The transaction says:

Transaction Status: Declined (Card declined by issuer - Contact card issuer to determine reason.)

 

Does anybody know how to handle this? I can't find anywhere Authorize.net lists the name of the card issuer, so we can't contact them.

Also, they only display the last 4 digits of the CC number. Anybody know a way to get the whole CC number? We pay for the Authorize.net "Customer Information Manager" service that keeps the whole CC number on file for future charging , but don't know how get the number, the issuing bank, or to handle a declined CC number!

__________________

All saints can do miracles, but few of them can keep hotel. ~ Mark Twain

 

Breakfast Diva's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/26/2009

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

Just to give what I HOPE is the final report on this one, when ResKey sent out the automatic "we hope you enjoyed your stay" e-mail 3 days after they left, the girl saw at the bottom that she had a $70 balance due for damage to the paddles.

She called, apologized for her card being over its limit, and promised it would be okay to charge the card yesterday. We forgot yesterday but Linda ran it through today from ResKey and it worked! Received confirmation from Authorize.net that the daily settlement has transferred the money to our account.

Let's just hope it stays there!

Madeleine's picture
Offline
Joined:
09/29/2011

That's a nice feature...the 'balance due' on the thank you for staying email.

__________________

Everyday, for good or ill, we intersect with some else's story and become a part of it.

 

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

Madeleine wrote:

That's a nice feature...the 'balance due' on the thank you for staying email.

I get CC'd on each of those e-mails and always check to be sure it shows balance zero (unless like in this case they actually still owe us), so if we forget to enter a payment in the "system" this is a chance to catch that.

When you add on extra fees like in this case, you have the option to pick from a list a standard ones you've set up in the past, or add a custom label for the charge. Really nice.

 

Offline
Joined:
10/07/2008

 

__________________

Gluten free is never free. - Joey Bloggs

 

Generic's picture
Offline
Joined:
02/24/2011

 Good, that settles it.

__________________

Permission to quote in whole or in part, other than usage on this forum, is entirely forbidden.

 

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

The e-mailing of a portion of the cc number is only done if you are using "Offline Credit Card" as your payment method. That is, you get the cc number and run it through manually yourself.

PT and I use the Authorize.net payment option where the card is charged automatically. We don't get a partial cc number in an e-mail. ResKey and a.net handle it all for us.

muirford's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2008

Arkansawyer wrote:

The e-mailing of a portion of the cc number is only done if you are using "Offline Credit Card" as your payment method. That is, you get the cc number and run it through manually yourself.

PT and I use the Authorize.net payment option where the card is charged automatically. We don't get a partial cc number in an e-mail. ResKey and a.net handle it all for us.

Ah, so it is stored in your Reskey account, not just the authorize.net account?  I started using Reskey after it was changed to an email method; I believe before you clicked on the reveal button to see the cc number.  Now the reveal button on my account does nothing, although it is still there.  It does not show the credit card number for me.

__________________

Jeanne

There are no rules, just follow your heart. ~ Robin Williams

 

Breakfast Diva's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/26/2009

Muirford, give John an e-mail. I don't use a.net and I still have the full number showing. It retains it for the 30 days. I think it's an option you can change with John.

Offline
Joined:
10/07/2008

Breakfast Diva wrote:

Muirford, give John an e-mail. I don't use a.net and I still have the full number showing. It retains it for the 30 days. I think it's an option you can change with John.

No it is not an option, you just haven't been switched over, it is like everything PCI complaince. Anyone that signed on after you did has the partial number.

muirford's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2008

 I don't really mind getting the emails; it's easy enough.  I don't charge an advance deposit so I rarely need the info.  It was only a problem the last few weeks when the emails stopped intermittently - apparently the mail server he used was flagged as a spam IP address by my ISP, meaning I never got the emails - not in my junk email, not on my server account.  He has switched it so that now I get them again.

Proud Texan's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/30/2008

If you are using ResKey, then the full credit card number is held for up to 30 days after check out.   You just have to go to the credit card section where the number is blocked out with all but the last four digits and click "reveal" 

muirford's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2008

Proud Texan wrote:

If you are using ResKey, then the full credit card number is held for up to 30 days after check out.   You just have to go to the credit card section where the number is blocked out with all but the last four digits and click "reveal" 

That doesn't work the same way on Reskey any more - one portion of the card number is emailed to you and the other is contained in the credit card section.  At least, my version of ResKey doesn't work that way.

Proud Texan's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/30/2008

muirford wrote:

Proud Texan wrote:

If you are using ResKey, then the full credit card number is held for up to 30 days after check out.   You just have to go to the credit card section where the number is blocked out with all but the last four digits and click "reveal" 

That doesn't work the same way on Reskey any more - one portion of the card number is emailed to you and the other is contained in the credit card section.  At least, my version of ResKey doesn't work that way.

We are talking about Reservation Key, right?   It should be the same for you as it is for me.

 

muirford's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2008

Proud Texan wrote:
We are talking about Reservation Key, right?   It should be the same for you as it is for me.

Yes, I have Reservation Key.  No, it is not exactly the same for everyone - there are options which can be turned on and off; John has used that to test some things on mine.  I can tell you for sure that clicking 'reveal' in my account does not bring up the credit card number, and never has.

Proud Texan's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/30/2008

muirford wrote:

Proud Texan wrote:
We are talking about Reservation Key, right?   It should be the same for you as it is for me.

Yes, I have Reservation Key.  No, it is not exactly the same for everyone - there are options which can be turned on and off; John has used that to test some things on mine.  I can tell you for sure that clicking 'reveal' in my account does not bring up the credit card number, and never has.

 You should get that feature turned on then.  It's very helpful.

Offline
Joined:
06/24/2008

Proud Texan wrote:

muirford wrote:

Proud Texan wrote:
We are talking about Reservation Key, right?   It should be the same for you as it is for me.

Yes, I have Reservation Key.  No, it is not exactly the same for everyone - there are options which can be turned on and off; John has used that to test some things on mine.  I can tell you for sure that clicking 'reveal' in my account does not bring up the credit card number, and never has.

 You should get that feature turned on then.  It's very helpful.

Mine is the same as Muirford.  I contacted John when I started as in my initial review of the site, the system worked like yours does.  He had just implemented this a day or so before I started.  As JB stated it is for PCI compliance and I do not think this is a feature he will turn on for new clients.  He stated that at this time he was not going in to change his previous clients but they could request the change.

Actually it is not difficult to handle it in this method.  I make a folder in my email addy for each month (res. date) and once the month has passed it is deleted.  All very secure this way & we can be totally PCI compliant as the full number is not retained in one system or at our location. 

muirford's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2008

copperhead wrote:
Actually it is not difficult to handle it in this method.  I make a folder in my email addy for each month (res. date) and once the month has passed it is deleted.  All very secure this way & we can be totally PCI compliant as the full number is not retained in one system or at our location. 

I am also fine with the email method.  My only problem has been that my emails are not getting to my ISP, and that is a problem for many reasons other than not having the credit card number.  Same as copperhead, I don't worry about my own PCI compliance now.

Madeleine's picture
Offline
Joined:
09/29/2011

See if this rather long article helps you find the info you need:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Issuer_Identification_Numbers

 

You do need to have those first 6-8 digits, tho.

 

Kay Nein's picture
Offline
Joined:
02/13/2012

 I don't think anyone's mentioned calling Authorize.net directly.  I've spoken with them before about a client's account and they were very helpful.  

This is what their webiste says about that particular message, though it doesn't look like much help.  Maybe the original charge was fraudulent and the bank was notified which would result in a future chargeback (worse case scenario) :

Declined (Card declined by issuer - contact card issuer to determine reason.) 

This generally occurs for one of two reasons:

  1. The customer's credit card issuing bank did not approve the transaction. This could be for insufficient funds, frozen account status, invalid credit card number or expiration date, etc. Unfortunately the card issuing bank does not provide additional details regarding the reason for the decline. The customer will need to contact the card issuing bank for more information. One way to recognize a bank decline is to look at the transaction's Address Verification Service (AVS) status in the Authorization Information section of the Transaction Detail page. If it shows AVS Not Applicable (P), this generally means that no verification of the address information was initiated as the transaction was declined beforehand.
  1. The transaction may have been declined by your processor based on transaction limits established by your Merchant Service Provider (MSP). Your MSP sets both per-transaction and monthly transaction amount limits for your transaction processing. If you have questions regarding your transaction limits, please contact your MSP. A phone number to your MSP should be on your most recent funding statement.

 

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

Thanks. I actually had investigated at Authorize.net and read that explanation of the "declined" message. I can guarantee you it's not reason two (over our monthly limit for transaction processing)!

As #1 says, only the card issuing bank can explain exactly why it was declined, and we have no way of finding that out. That info is on the card itself and, of course, we didn't look.

A few times when I've used my card online I've been asked for the name of the issuing bank. This must be why some ask that. Like most card users, I thought it was part of the process of verfiying that I am the legitimate card holder or something. Nope. It's to track my card issuer down if the card is declined later.

The #1 stuff about AVS Not Applicable doesn't apply in our case. We have the correct address. I think she's just over her limit. I don't think she was able to cancel the card or tell them not to let us charge them in such a short time.

So far it's still declined, and will continue to be until she makes a monthly payment on account. So we'll keep trying occasionally for the next few weeks. Of course, she may then have the CC company reverse the charge. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it (the kneecapping option?).

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

I filled in a registration a year or two ago that asked for car tag number. I think it was in Hawaii. Might have been in California. It was the first time I'd seen that question in years.

Who knows their car tag number? I always just make something up when asked for something like that. Nobody has ever questioned it.

Breakfast Diva's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/26/2009

if you're able to eventually get the charge through, hopefully they'll feel bad about the damage and not dispute the charge. If they're young, they may not even know they have the option to dispute.

Weaver's picture
Offline
Joined:
01/24/2012

Hey Arks, before you send PT in with a baseball bat have you tried calling them? An email perhaps?  Before getting the police involved maybe a few attempts at communication.

 

Silverspoon's picture
Offline
Joined:
10/16/2011

 I am with Weaver on this one.  Try to collect directly from the guest.  Sometimes it is just a temporary glitch or a bill they forgot to pay.  We have only been stiffed twice in 23 years from checks that were bad.  We ultimately collected on both. One was a very bad dude who had a reputation all over the state but we collected after going the legal route.  The other was a foreign professional whose bank declined the original check because she had not used the checking account  before.  

Sorry I can't help you with the CC issue.  We don't have that problem.

__________________

Gardens are not made by singing "Oh, how beautiful" and sitting in the shade.
Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)

 

Hillbilly's picture
Online
Joined:
10/22/2011

I'm sorry this happened! I have had stuff like this happen before! I end up getting so mad I send them to a collection agency! Thru will send letters and call all day long and make life misserable for them! It will also reflect on their credit score! You might never get the money, but you will have the last word!

__________________

Hillbilly

 

Happy Keeper's picture
Offline
Joined:
10/24/2011

Just a total bummer.

We had a situation where we had a single traveler who had his card declined at checkout for a large amount. He was the nicest guy you would ever want to meet. He wanted to have us charge him after he cleared up the problem with his card. We insisted that he pay his bill before departing. He had to go to a bank to acquire cash and come back and pay his bill. Once you let them outside of your spell, they forget what they promised and begin making up reasons to not pay.  Once you let them go or make an arrangement, the balance of power shifts. If they say they won't or can't pay. you can call the police. Never had to do anything like that, but we would if we had to. I suppose that's why a hotel registers a guest and the licence plate of their car.

 

__________________

Take a leap and a net will appear

 

Offline
Joined:
05/30/2008

Happy Keeper, I have not had to give my license plate number for my car at hotel registration in eons.  Just sayin'... 

__________________

People don't notice whether it's winter or summer when they're happy.
~ Anton Chekhov

 

gillumhouse's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2008

It was on the registration form I got last year - whether I filled it in or not, it was there.

Offline
Joined:
05/30/2008

Interesting...we've stayed in a mix of quite a few hotels and B&Bs since we closed our biz and have been traveling a lot (in different areas of the country) and it has never been requested. 

Happy Keeper's picture
Offline
Joined:
10/24/2011

Yeah...it is kind of a motel type thing. We don't get it at major city hotels either, but it does pop up here and there. Besides, I laughed at my first reaction when I reread it. Call the police? WHo am I kidding.

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

They live in Fort Worth, Texas, and we have their home address. I'm mad enough to drive there and confront them.

Or have Proud Texan pay them a visit (he's only a few miles away, but he probably charges more than the $70 they owe us to kneecap people). I'm a mad Razorback and they're just a limp Fort Worth Horned Frog!

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

This girl just feels like the type who maxes out credit cards often. Her room charge went through fine a few days ago. I'm thinking/hoping we can run the damages charge thought every week for a few weeks and eventually it will go through OK.

I'm just amazed that the CC processor (Authorize.net) doesn't list the full CC number or the issuing bank so we can investigate further. There must be a way to do that.

As JB said, there is a huge loophole in our business if the CC companies don't see charges for damages as a legitimate charge (our terms make it clear that damages will be charged to the card). Hotels always get the CC info up front to charge for "incidentals" during your stay. Surely if you trash one of their rooms, they have recourse with the credit card. Surely.

Breakfast Diva's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/26/2009

Arkansawyer wrote:

Hotels always get the CC info up front to charge for "incidentals" during your stay. Surely if you trash one of

their

rooms, they have recourse with the credit card. Surely.

Hotels are in the same position we are. One of our guests manages 3 hotels and we have discussed this issue. He tells me that if the guest disputes the charge for damages, even though they have their signature saying they will be responsible, the credit card company goes against them. They've been told over and over that they have to take it to small claims.

It's not right, and it's not fair, but if there's a dispute, we lose.

Weaver's picture
Offline
Joined:
01/24/2012

BD - And that would be why vacation rentals take a security deposit!.

Arks, you might be fuming at this moment but take a deep breath, continue to attempt the charge every few days, and think not just about the principle of it but the actual cost of pursuing it.  Sometimes you just have to look at this as a cost of doing business.  Not that this is OK by any stretch, but if you have items that might be broken by guest use consider for those cottages a refundable use deposit - almost like the pre authorization at bars and gas stations.  Then you know up front the card will clear or if it won't you are prepared to deal with it on check out.

There is a hotel chain that when checking in authorizes an additional $X per day for incidentials, then charges the exact amount at check out. 

 

 

 

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

Weaver wrote:

Arks...take a deep breath...Sometimes you just have to look at this as a cost of doing business. 

But I can still have Proud Texan kneecap them, right? Smiling

Weaver's picture
Offline
Joined:
01/24/2012

Arkansawyer wrote:

Weaver wrote:

Arks...take a deep breath...Sometimes you just have to look at this as a cost of doing business. 

But I can still have Proud Texan kneecap them, right? Smiling

That's the spirit!!!

Arks's picture
Offline
Joined:
05/22/2010

Weaver wrote:

There is a hotel chain that when checking in authorizes an additional $X per day for incidentials, then charges the exact amount at check out. 

But if the CC company is going to side with the cardholder if there is a dispute over damages, then that pre-authorizing doesn't accomplish much. Sad

Offline
Joined:
10/07/2008

Arkansawyer wrote:

Weaver wrote:

There is a hotel chain that when checking in authorizes an additional $X per day for incidentials, then charges the exact amount at check out. 

But if the CC company is going to side with the cardholder if there is a dispute over damages, then that pre-authorizing doesn't accomplish much. Sad

you got it.

Joey Camb's picture
Offline
Joined:
04/02/2010

not A chaine babe most hotels do this in the UK it is usually the room price plus $50 per person per day

__________________

Don't mess with me today or I will kill you!!!!

 

Generic's picture
Offline
Joined:
02/24/2011

I'd put in a police report (force the police to put the damage property report) and then call them and ask how to proceed. If you get a chargeback after that, then you have the police report to show the cc company and of course, you can always go to small claims with it, which just adds more costs and hassle.

Offline
Joined:
10/07/2008

Sorry Arks, and I will add even if you DO get their cc and charge it then you will end up with a chargeback and have to refute it with the bank. So I hope you have a damage clause on everything in your cottages... 

A little known fact is that we are authorized to charge for rooms, not damages. If we have not discussed this lately, it is a loophole in our business. Document everything...

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.