Dishwasher

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Question in case someone here has the answer. Our dishwasher was dead in the water, we had to buy a new one and install one evening with a full house. The one we have is HORRID. The top layout is the worst, and totally does not meet our needs.

Question is this, before ripping the whole thing out (Frigidaire brand) and returning it and being stuck out with no dishwasher installed until we can get to it (with guests checked in), do you know if you can purchase JUST A TOP RACK of your choice to suit your needs? ie more stemware than coffee cups, lay out? The layout we had worked for all scenarios, this new one REALLY STINKS! 

Any idea before I call the store or DH spends half the night taking it our returning and installing another one? (which I will bring our typical glasses/cups etc with me this time!)

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Have you thought about installing a commercial dishwasher? We inherited one when we bought the Lodge, and while there is no one in the world who can service it any more, I've taken it apart a time or two, replaced a motor, replaced the heating element, etc.

It cycles in under ten minutes, and that includes the sanitizer. They are hideously expensive when bought new, but in any large city with a wholesale/retail restaurant supply store, you can usually find a few on consignment. Restaurants go out of business all the time. And the price is always negotiable.

These kind of machines have trays that you load, then slide into the machine. Close the door; flip a switch; presto, you have clean dishes ten minutes later. Of course, by most health department regulations, the dishes must air dry (no touching them with drying towels). So depending on the load, you may find yourself feeding the monster every ten minutes or so.

DW wants to buy a "real" dishwasher, but at 2+ hours for one load, that's crazy. We have 14 rooms and feed guests supper in addition to breakfast during ski season, and no family dishwasher on the market with that sort of turn-around could meet our needs.

DW argues that we should buy 2. I reply that hiring a ski-bum to wash dishes at 2 in the morning after his video-gaming buddies in the east go to sleep is a good investment. Shoot, his ski pass costs less than a third of one of those whizz-bang machines, and it doesn't take him two hours to wash all the dishes and clean the kitchen.

Tom

gillumhouse's picture
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There is also the space issue. Most home kitchens would not have the space to accommodate a commercial dishwasher - MY kitchen does not have enough space to accommodate a HOME dishwasher!! I use the "art bum" dishwasher method.

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Some of them are smaller than a home dishwasher. You can get them on casters also so they can be 'stored' and then hooked up to the sink.

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It is the manual that says it takes longer than what we are used to, 2-3 hours it says. I have it and can show you or scan it, it is not us, or water supply. The manual states this. Whirlpool brand.

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Yes, it's the new way that they make the machines energy efficient. They gain efficiency but lose speed. It can take longer if your water supply isn't hot enough, because it then needs to heat the water. It also uses a lot less water.

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Our Miele takes 2 hours, we don't use "rinse aid" but "shine/gloss rinse"  I am sure it is the same.... Here all DW take about the same time for the regular programs. The alternative is a commercial dishwasher, they take 2 minutes (one rack at the time),the water used is kept hot and reused 10 times. Big $$$$ machine....

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not only are they big bucks to buy they are big bucks to repair - plus getting a repair man is as rare as hens teeth!

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The new dishwasher is going in now...yeah yeah I know I said that already, but the other NEW ONE was horrible. And that brand, every rack was the same in every model (about 8 models of them, same layout inside which was NO GOOD for us).  So this one is just right, and better built too, even the insulation is better quality.

But the weird part, the new dishwashers take 2 to 3 hours to clean, so they can say they are energy efficient , they all have small motors.

So I am accusing people in this family of RESETTING IT, as a whole half a day passes I come and go and the thing is still running!  Plus you must use rinse-aid, to get rid of the moisture to dry the dishes, mandatory on the new ones.  I am sure BBBob can tell us all of this...

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Joey Bloggs wrote:

But the weird part, the new dishwashers take 2 to 3 hours to clean, so they can say they are energy efficient , they all have small motors.

Plus you must use rinse-aid, to get rid of the moisture to dry the dishes, mandatory on the new ones.  

Definitely you should use jet dry. Here in Canada they have removed the phosphates from almost all detergents. The drying agent helps break down debris and dry it faster
As far as the length of time, it seems a bit long. How far away is the tank from the DW? Is the water too cold? Most of the new ones will not start the countdown until the temp is in the 120° F range. If the water is too cold the internal heater will kick on. If it is a Bosch, 140°F min to about 163°F. Sani wash will lengthen the cycle time as well as the hot fry cycle. What brand/model did you get?

 

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Our health department here required us to have a dishwasher with a sani-rinse cycle. 

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BBBBoB wrote:

Here in Canada they have removed the phosphates from almost all detergents.  

Here in the US phosphates are gone from all detergents, and glasses come out covered in spots. But you can buy phosphate from 3rd party sources and add your own. It works.

I discovered in Sweden years ago that their appliances (washers, dryers, dishwashers) are MUCH quieter than ours. The tradeoff is that the machines take much longer than I'm used to. I guess it's as said above, that smaller motors take longer but use less energy and make less noise.

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Generic's picture
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There is a serious reason why phosphates were removed. the algae problem was clogging up the lakes and streams.

Our wash takes 2 hours and 9 minutes if you have rinse aid, if you don't it's 2 hours 24 minutes. We use the rinse aid. But we can get the dishes pretty much clean with the short wash, which is about 1 hour, unless the dishes are really overly dirty or there is baked on dirt.

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ours has a quick wash - 1 hour which I use for things like side plates and saucers as arnt that dirty and the main cycle is 2 hours - no rince aid required and everything comes out clean

We have had our beco for 1 and a half years now - no problems.

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Maybe this should be a poll but do you prefer:

1)  Cutlery rack on the door, or

2)  Cutlery rack sits on the lower dish rack, or

3)  Different arrangement

My older model has it in the door with a separate rack above for long handled items.  It worked really well when we had the biz. 

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Oh please don't do this to your self.......stay away from Frigidaire! I would give one to my worst PITA!!!!

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I have a Bosch and love it.  I've had it 5 years and I run about 3 loads a day on it and so far no problems and everything comes out spotless.  It is much better than doing it by hand like I did before and the water savings has been noticeable as well.

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In our house, DW is the dishwasher and I'm the dish dryer.   It's greener that way.cheeky   Also, our kitchen is too small for a dishwasher and we're cheap.

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In our house DH is the dishwasher and the Health Dept prohibits a dish dryer person. They are required to air dry so no germs contaminate - I guess there is no such thing as airborne germs. That is why it takes forever to get the dishes done. The drying rack only holds so much at a time.

Bommelhoeve's picture
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We have a Miele with 3 racks and love it. The top rack is for cutlery only, you have to place the forks/knifes side by side. We find it takes more work to load, but we save a lot of time on unloading (it is all sorted), and everything is always clean without any water stains. With the cutlery out of the way the other racks take a lot more dishes etc. 

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06/24/2008

We purchased a Maytag in the spring.  It cleans very well and is extreemly quiet but I know what you mean about the racks as I am limited where I can place stemware.

One thing I would try before returning it is to call the manufacturer's service center just to see if they sell a different rack that would fit the model you have since they do have different models.   I wish I had thought of this myself! 

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I sell Dishwashers for a living. Generally all racking is brand specific and not interchangeable. We do have customers come into the store to try to see what fits their needs. There is nothing the Bosch or Bosh/Kenmore cannot wash (except the hybrid one plastic/stainless tub). IMHO They are about 2 - 2 1/2 inches shallower than the north american designed ones.  I love them, but watch the racking. The newer ones have thinner spacing between the tynes. Some deeper dishes do not fit. Look at the Kenmore with  the 360 Built by Kitchen aid almost as effective as the Bosch. Hope that helps.

BBBBob

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Our home improvement store won't know what hit them when I arrive with all these dishes...glasses, cups, stemware, etc. 

To be honest even the flippin' cutlery tray is no good! It is on the side but pushed back a bit, which means I have to hunch over every time I toss a spoon or something in.  Something so small, but backbreaking in the end!! 

Generic's picture
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One of the things that I love about this Bosch/Kenmore is that the cutlery tray is set up with runners, so that it can sit anywhere at the front of the bottom tray. And the new grid makes sure they don't stick together for cleaning. We try to put different cutlery in quadrants, so it's easier to remove.

I do have to admit that it takes much longer than the dishwashers in my youth. And the Bosch takes a little less dishes than the previous machine, but the sparkling dishes make up for it.

One of the main reasons that we went with this particular model might not even be an issue for most people. The dishwasher is right under our prime counterspace. Most people can hardly believe how we work with so little counterspace, it is a tiny kitchen, since it's in what would have been the butler's pantry. So we didn't want a handle that sticks out, we wanted a recessed handle and that limited our choices. 

Noise wasn't an issue for us, but I have to say that it's quiet, sometimes so quiet that the blue light it shines on the floor is the only way that we know that it is on. Also, you have to set things up a few ways to figure out what works for you. But the new trays have sections that fold over, so you can try different ways. Remember that if you have a cutlery tray the area behind it is fixed space. And look at the manuals, you may find that they load dishes a bit differently than they used to. I found that they put bowls in places I hadn't even thought of and they sit so nicely and get clean. 

I was warned by our appliance repairman to stay away from Miele only because getting parts was difficult and took time. Also, check the filter system on new dishwashers. Do they have a fine filter? Do they have a way to catch glass that breaks? Do they have a way to prevent food from clogging the drain. That was the problem with our Sammy machine, always clogging the drain.

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06/10/2008

Thanks for the suggestion/idea of bringing my own stemware with me to shop for a dishwasher.  I will be looking for one when I get around to remodeling the galley.  I'm currently building cabinetry for new air conditioning, so the galley project will have to wait.  

In the house that I built, I installed top of the line stuff, and the best Bosch dishwasher was one of the appliances.  What annoyed me in a good way was that I was always opening the thing to see if it was running.  It was just dead silent.  I like Bosch stuff.  When my 30-year-old washer dryer on the boat crapped out, I replaced it with a Bosch set.  No regrets.

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Side note:  Hi Sanctuary!!  Haven't 'seen' you here in a while!

 

Tom
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10/11/2009

Sympathize.  We installed two Bosch dishwashers and have trouble with stem ware: the Bosch breaks more wineglasses than do the guests!  Our inn glassware is pretty tough and not really long stemmed but it is not held upright and the bottoms can shear off when the top shelf is closed..  We complained to Bosch to see if there was an alternate rack and were told in essence that we should have bought a more expensive model !!

Advice to try in-store with your own stuff is right on.

Generic's picture
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We have one that was so bad that we sold it, extended warranty and all. Our new dishwasher does such a nice job that I sometimes wonder if I actually need to put the soap in. Only thing we don't like is having to refill the rinse agent. It's a Bosch with Kenmore's name on it. Dishes come out great.

Bring some stemware with you to the store and try it. We did.

Joey Camb's picture
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this is why when we bought a new one I went to the shop and looked at all the top racks - we bought a Beko which did well in the reviews but also all the racks in the top and bottom trays can be folded flat to make one big flat tray if you need which is excellent for us when we have a lot of cups to wash.

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10/07/2008

It looked like it would work, but NOT EVEN CLOSE!  We will have it bring it back. We have 30 days to return it, they said.  We don't have BEKO here or I would have a look at them! 

Madeleine's picture
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09/29/2011

Assuming there are no adjustments for the shelves you have? Raising/lowering so things fit?

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