Things we learn the hard way about running a B&B

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We have all learned the hard way about running a B&B, and I suppose like any business owner, if we feel we know it all then we are just fooling ourselves. I for one learn every day at least one thing new, and then decide if I should incorporate this into my business. I'd like to start a list of sorts of the things we have learned and incorporated into our B&B in the hope of stopping some of the issues that caused problems in the past and which make our lives and the enjoyment of our guest all that much better.

  1. Every "important" policy is posted on my website as well as in my confirmation letter
  2. Each of these policies(really only 5) is on my guest registration form that each guest signs at check-in
    1. This is important in the rare event of a damage claim or anything else that might crop up
  3. I never accept cash as a payment at check-in - I only allow guests to check-in with a credit card which I scan into my management system along with their drivers license (all to validate they are who they say they are
    1. They are more than welcome to pay cash at check out - I will then void the CC information after I know there was no damage to the room.
  4. We never supply our guests with in-room wine glasses (water or soda glasses yes). This is for insurance reasons. We have a full liquor license and are fully responsible for the safety of this guest. If they bring their own alcohol and they happen to get inebriated and hurt themself, under my states law and my liquor license I am responsible.
    1. If you do not have a liquor license then your B&B insurance policy better cover this expensive liability.
  5. We never offer discounts on our rates - this is not to say we are not flexible. We do offer $5-$10 dining discounts to our restaurant as well as other local restaurant. Local restuarants would be more than happy to offer you a stack of discount vouchers in order to obtain your guests business.
    1. In our experience in the past, the most troubled guest were always the one we gave a discount too. No idea as to why, but trust me it is true. We offer a tremendous experience as I am sure all owners do - There must be a perceived value in that experience.
  6. We inform guests that early or late check in is possible with advance notice at a rate of $10 per hour billed hourly.
    1. This cut down our early arrivals by 95% and we never have late check-outs. Of course we are flexible for certain guests on a per request basis.
  7. We always take advance deposits and verify the card - and our 7 day cancellation policy is strict.

I realize some of this sound too hotelish, but it is accpeted by our guest and is forgotten about once they are here and enjoying themself. We are a B&B in every meaning of the word, but we are still a business like any other customer oriented business. Not all, but many people out there make it their point to try and get everything for next to nothing, we want to make sure they understand up front that we don't want to play those games.

 

trishany's picture
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Hi Piperman, I just posted AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, but it didn't show up.

Anyway, don't be discouraged by a few of the posters.  This forum is a really good place to learn. sometimes you will be bombarded by the few "incorrect thinking people".   But, they mean well.   

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trishany wrote:

Hi Piperman, I just posted AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, but it didn't show up.

Anyway, don't be discouraged by a few of the posters.  This forum is a really good place to learn. sometimes you will be bombarded by the few "incorrect thinking people".   But, they mean well.   

Trish- ALL of your posts show up. People are replying to them. Maybe you have a problem with your browser not refreshing.

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I am guessing that an "incorrect thinking" person on this forum would be someone who disagrees with TrishNY.  Interesting, considering that she is a fledgling innkeeper and there are many other veteran innkeepers on this forum. 

Perhaps, TrishNY is not clicking the "Save" button sometimes which is why her replies aren't posting?

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muirford's picture
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Unfortunately, those of us who don't have TNY on ignore are able to read all of her posts (including the ones where she disparages us), so the inability to read them is operator error, not a software problem. 

There are times when I might be offended to be labelled an 'incorrect thinking' person, but this time I think I'm pleased to be in that company!

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muirford wrote:

Unfortunately, those of us who don't have TNY on ignore are able to read all of her posts (including the ones where she disparages us), so the inability to read them is operator error, not a software problem. 

There are times when I might be offended to be labelled an 'incorrect thinking' person, but this time I think I'm pleased to be in that company!

HEAR HEAR!  I applaud all of you incorrectly thinking people.  Outside the box is always a COMPLIMENT.

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Piperman, there are alot of "incorrect thinking people" here on this forum.

I am posting below a list of things we have learned and incorporated into our business.

We have learned that:

- Sending out a "guest information" letter on nice letterhead is a very comfortable feeling for the guests and very classy. 

 - Egyptian cotton sheets are always talked about (800-1000 tc.)

 - A big, hearty breakfast is the MAIN thing that is always the last thing the guests say to us -- "we loved the breakfast" 

- Placing 3-5 chocolates in a dish in each room is sufficient.  Otherwise, they will eat or take the whole dish of chocolates

- Placing a big basket of towels in each room stamps out the question of "we ran out of towels?".

- The guests do not read signs.  Especially the younger crowd.  They are here to have a great time and to hell with    the signs. So when they arrive, you have  to reiterate.

 - Being greeted at the door by their first names (you know who is coming by your reservation program). And if there are two or three couples arriving at the same time, you just use your common sense. 

- Having keys to their bedroom

- Knowing that they are not to drive if they go to the wineries (most people come out here to go to the wineries) They call us if they are inebriated.

And thats all I can think of for now.  But this has been an awesome experience, meeting some of the best and nicest people in the world, some of whom I have an uncanny connection to. 

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Most of this is how things are run here. Exceptions being the winery thing, we don't have those here and I won't, as a young woman, pick up any inebriated guests at the dock after a night on the mainland. We have 7 rooms in the main house and then 4 more seasonsl rooms in the back house so knowing a guest's name who has never been here beofre would be a stretch. All your overweight, middle-aged Americans look pretty much the same until you 've had a chance to talk to ehm and sort ot their personalities. A ggod guess can be mad eon europeans bu their shoes and their general attitude before they even open their mouths. There are couples here from Colorado and Indiana tonight. No way to tell who is who before they tell me. Arrival is by boat so they all tend to show up at one time or the other, not spread out.

Our linens our inported by my aunt. She travels a lot and brings these things back with her or sends them ahead when she travels. She sent back a casr load of Balmoral lace one time and now I'm expecting some beautiful Provencal linens,not that they go with the inn she just likes to shop. Sometime I will post pictures. She has never had a website most of the guests are simply repeats or word of mouth. That's something I'll change if ai stick around.

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The Coloradans would have been easy if they had shown up first. Theor address was a ranch anf they looked the part.

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seven sisters b-b wrote:

The Coloradans would have been easy if they had shown up first. Theor address was a ranch anf they looked the part.

What part of Colorado, do you know?  I have a LOT of ranching relatives in Colorado.  Smiling

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Morticia's picture
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I like the guest information letter. Do you send a separate confirmation or is this altogether in one envelope? Does it include directions and stuff like that?

 

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speaking of wine glasses:

the little general store across from me sells liquor and has been hit with 4 or 5 stings ... or spot inspections ... people can buy beer and wine but they cannot drink it in the store or on the store property.   someone walked in, bought beer,  walked over to the door, popped open a beer and boom! violation notice and fine.

to make matters worse, there is a restaurant right behind the store that sells liquor and patrons CAN drink there ... so there is confusion.

sooooooo ... i had a full house of wedding guests and all the coffee mugs and tea cups (ceramic and disposable) had been used during the night.  one guest got up early, made himself a cup of coffee in the library in an acrylic wine glass and carried it over to the general store to buy shaving cream.  they about went nuts ... thought it was yet another sting!! 

... the owner went rushing over to tell this guy he couldn't drink wine in the store ... 6 a.m. ... discovered it was black coffee.  she was still worried about how it looked and handed him a paper cup to pour the coffee into and a plastic bag to put the 'wine glass' in.

i heard all about it for three days. 

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That sounds a bit harsh...the shopkeeper can't follow every buyer to the door and make sure they are in their car, with the key in the ignition before the customer opens the beer. (At which point the customer gets hit with DUI!)

All they can really do is make sure it's well-posted and maybe say something at purchase. They must have annoyed the state liquor board over something...

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Yes, this topic did take an interesting twist I thought.

We each have our policies to suit our different types of properties, as well as our location and our competition.  I think we actually have a nice mix of size of properties developing here on this forum.  I would not call our operation a hobbyist or lifestyle B&B, but it doesn't support us.  I would like to make a living from our 5 room place someday.  At least enough to support the two properties, pay the expenses of hosting guests, with a little left over.  It will take awhile to build it to that...hasn't happened in 6 months that's for sure Smiling

I think the great thing is that we can learn as we grow our businesses from our mistakes.  We can also learn from a forum like this of innkeepers who are willing to share their stories.  Thanks y'all!!

btw - It's fascinating to me that you can't drink water out of a wine glass in New Hampshire.  haha!

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We are foruntate that where we live we rarely have issues. There are some who try to pull a fast one but you can't leave here without the ferry and you can't get here without it wither. Not a lot of chance to do much harm/. everyone on the island is fairly supportive of thid place as i have been finding out since I've been here. We had one guest tryo to leave without paying and i called doen to the dock and they owuldn't let him board the ferry. Told hm he had forgotten something at the inn and we wanted him to come back to give it to him. (chuckle)

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Gosh, when I saw the topic I thought it was going to be a very different thread.

One thing I learned the hard way is that king sized beds are a lot more work to change than queen sized beds, and that sleigh beds (particularly their footboards) suck.

=)
Kk.

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YellowSocks wrote:
 that sleigh beds (particularly their footboards) suck.

HaHa!  That was a lesson for me, too.  Love how they look - the one sleigh bed we have gets ooohs - but I will never have one in my own house.

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muirford wrote:

YellowSocks wrote:
 that sleigh beds (particularly their footboards) suck.

HaHa!  That was a lesson for me, too.  Love how they look - the one sleigh bed we have gets ooohs - but I will never have one in my own house.

I was just telling someone this last week, I think an innkeeper I visited, how the new sleigh beds have extra space at the end. The real reason may be for feet - ie so taller people will buy them, but for making them, it sure makes a big difference.

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Smiling  I remember that conversation.... it was with me - (by the way, it was wonderful to have a visit from another inkeeper!!)     We have sleigh beds in storage and decided not to use them because of the difficulty it would be to make the beds up as a king bed.  We'd have to stand on our heads to tuck the sheets and blankets in the bottom.

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greyswan wrote:
Smiling  I remember that conversation.... it was with me - (by the way, it was wonderful to have a visit from another inkeeper!!)     We have sleigh beds in storage and decided not to use them because of the difficulty it would be to make the beds up as a king bed.  We'd have to stand on our heads to tuck the sheets and blankets in the bottom.

No... you just get to build your muscles when you lift the entire end of the mattress up in order to tuck (even a portion of) the sheet in.  Which you do with one hand, so you can tuck with the other...

=)
Kk.

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i am ready to buy one .... for me ....

sleeping in my big sleigh, writing letters to santa ... teddy bears and hot cocoa on a tray ....

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seashanty wrote:

i am ready to buy one .... for me ....

sleeping in my big sleigh, writing letters to santa ... teddy bears and hot cocoa on a tray ....

I'm getting a new bed. Finally. I can't have a footboard, tho, so the sleigh is out. (Hubs is too tall.) I'm looking at just getting a sleigh style headboard.

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well, if i ever get a new 'hubs' i'll remove the foot board or get a bigger bed.  for now .... i hear sleigh bells!!! 

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similar here, piperman.

eight guest rooms. check out by 11 check in 3 to 7.  you have a very late check in window. later than that, and i am very tired.  waiting on one checkin that left a message saying they'd be here around 8:30 or 9.  and i am getting up to do an early breakfast tomorrow (6 am eating time) so i am not thrilled with waiting up.  because i want to have a bath and put on my nightgown which i will likely do by 9 whether they are here or not! 

a restaurant too? i hope you have a big staff

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 I'm guessing the wine glass thing is a state thing, or there would be no hotels or B&Bs still in business in wine countries such as Napa CA or here in Charlottesville VA. I'm sure that when we met with the ABC folks here when we got our license they would have mentioned it or the insurance company would have. **whew** I'm glad that's not the case here since the "wine country" is our niche!!!

Then again, (knock on wood) we have not yet has any problems at all with our guests and we provide a bottle of sparkling wine, wine and champagne glasses, and a cork puller in our suites!!!!

Riki

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www.arcadyvineyard.com
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Don't get me wrong, we can and do offer wine service to all of our rooms in our packages or if a guest orders a bottle - my post was about me supplying them glasses and openers for wine they bring in themself. New Hampshire is a liquor controlled state - all alcohol has to be purchased from State owned Liqor outlets, and we have to keep our liqour receipts for 6 months in case they do an inspection. We have to produce a receipt for all alcohol on premise if asked.

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 Ah I see. No, we don't have that problem about the glasses, although we also have state controlled regs and have to do the same as you. I'm waiting for them to come and complain, as we are supposed to have all alcohol locked up, and in our entry octagon I have niches with magnums of wine for decoration. I'm assuming they may show up one day and make me etiher lock them up or empty them. Not looking forward to that.

Riki

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It is a State thing. Clearly noted in your License. It is also noted in my liquour insurance policy - "No Alcoholic beverages may be consumed unles purchased on premise"

I suppose being in wine country that would not go over very well Smiling

 

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I can see that state policy because you have a liquor license. Most BB's don't have a license. I'm in Canada so different rules and, like the USA, policies change according to province. I can offer sherry free of charge in the guest rooms but can't sell it. I don't have a liquor license. Guests are free to bring whatever they want to drink just like in a hotel.

 

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egoodell's picture
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 Well the County and the State are still biting the hand that feeds them in regards to the wineries. But I think they have noticed the funds that come from the guests that come for the wine tasting and such. Maybe when your state gets more involved in wine making yours will modernize!!!

Europeans like Italians are so shocked at these silly regulations. They feel that wine is a "right" as a human being for happiness! Now, that's the attitude I like to see!!!

But like you there are things we steer clear of because of lawsuits. One is no bicycles nohow. They bring their own. Our roads are great for biking, but the drivers around here are too dangerous on the roads for us to encourage them!

Riki

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Yes, states have a habit of doing that. This is a Chef owned B&B - so wine is a big influence on the decor of the B&B even the rooms are named after grapes :

New Hampshire is a great outdor state, perfect for hiking and biking. We used ro offer guest free use of a bunch of mountain bikes we have here - until the insurance compnay found out - just like you, we had to stop. they would have dropped our policy if we continued.

Sad that these basic enjoyments of going to a B&B are fully controlled.

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I am not arguing.

We specifically asked our insurance rep about providing outdoor equipment to guests. We had reservations about doing this given the potential for injury.

Guess what their take on it is...you (meaning we) have coverage to operate a B&B and all that entails.

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Then here we go again, it's a state thing or insurance thing. We used to offer ATV's, snowmobiles and bikes to our guests, since we are on some of the best trail systems in the Northeast, but the insurance carriers would not offer the liability insurance to cover injuries. Oh, I'm sure if we wanted to pay a huge premium they'd approve it. The sad thing about this is we have even lost 2 or 3 smaller outback groups (they rent these items) because they could not afford to pay the premiums. Our guest now have to travel miles to rent these things.

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What fun! Sounds like you have a beautiful place.

I was going to try and name my rooms after grapes, but it would not work. From family travels, we had "stuff" to decorate according to locations - the french and german rooms no problem - continent of Africa no problem. Vermont? problem.

So, since wer are in Charlottesville, Thomas Jefferson's home, we are using people from his time that have roots in those countries.

Riki

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I suppose Vermont known for it's Green Mountains, cheddar cheese and pure maple syrup is not as sexy as Africa, Germany  or France....I see your point Smiling

 

 

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if guests arrive at the door early, and you can accommodate them, do you say 'yes, you can check in early at a rate of $10 per hour''?  (or only if they've arranged it with you ahead of time?)   do they get mad or say 'fine i'll pay it'' .... i get a number of folks showing up early who really want in. 

a lot of the time i tell them, check is in at 3 and we are not quite ready for you. sometimes the place is ready, but not me

 if you have a low rate of people showing up early, that means people ARE aware of check in time and don't want to be charged extra.  whereas here, they arrive and seem oblivious that they are early.   hmmmmmm

 not sure what i missed in this thread since some posts have been deleted. 

 

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SS wrote: "if you have a low rate of people showing up early, that means people ARE aware of check in time and don't want to be charged extra.  whereas here, they arrive and seem oblivious that they are early.   hmmmmmm"

What I am wondering is if the dollar sign is the sign we should all use when trying to make a point.  It seems to be working for Piper on early check in...Gee wonder what else we could put that glaring symbol on that would stress our point... hmmmm

Piper - please stick around.  I do not know what the issue was about but don't take it personally.  We really are a friendly bunch and like to hear how others are running their business and as you know by now, we often ask questions when things are not clear to us (i.e. wine glasses). 

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I tried the 'pay to play' policy last year. Early check-ins were $35, ditto late check-ins and late check-outs. No one read the policy. I wasn't about to say, at the door, 'That will be $35,' because the real reason for the charge was to cut down on that and, if there was a real necessity, that we would do that room first so it was ready.

The first time I had a guy call for a late check-in (after midnight) and I told him the fee he said, 'That's not very hospitable,' and hung up on me.

After enough of that, I gave up. Guests did not read anything that was sent to them or anything that was on the web. They would tell me directly, on the phone, 'We will be arriving at 11 AM.' My response would then be, 'Please feel free to leave your car here and head into town for lunch and we'll see you between 3 and 7.'

They then showed up, right on schedule at 11. Not a single one admitting that we had told them check-in was between 3-7. What we got was (depending on who answered the door), 'The guy (or girl) told me it was ok to check-in when I got here.'

The number of times I wanted to scream, 'Liar!' in their faces was unbelievable.

But, the rest of the B&B's here let guests in whenever they arrive. They all have staff.

The worst was one who showed up when we were outside trying to change the lightbulb in the parking lot light. Hubs is on a ladder, 20 feet up and I am bracing the ladder. They get out of the car and say, 'We're here!' I explain we're not ready, thinking this might be obvious and then the dancing begins. 'We need to use the restroom, where is it?' 'We were told we could check-in whenever we arrived.' Ad infinitum.

Neither of them read the confirmation, neither remembered anyone telling them check in was 3-7. So, should I let go of the ladder and let hubs fall while I let these guests into the house? For what purpose would I let them in? There are no 'restrooms' and the rooms weren't ready.

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Gee Bree,

I don't understand why you can't just be like the rest of us and have your rooms ready exactly one minute after the previous guest has checked out and why can't you just let the guests use your bathroom, you are so rude!  

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inncogneeto wrote:

Gee Bree,

I don't understand why you can't just be like the rest of us and have your rooms ready exactly one minute after the previous guest has checked out and why can't you just let the guests use your bathroom, you are so rude!  

I thought my only 'badge' would be PITA magnet. But, noooo, I also can lay claim to world class Potty Mouth (auto filter). All I can say is, 'Someone has to do it.'

You know, I think the PO's gave up because they ran into this so much. I just keep beating my head against the wall.

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Money is not at all my driving factor in charging for policy breakers, I use it as a preemtive course of action. If the guest understands that I am not say NO, but say yes with the caviat that there will be a surcharge, it may make them drive around and find a book store a lunch place to spend the time before check-in, that's all. the bottom line is it is their choice, and the larger % choose not to pay the $, so they get here at 3pm on the dot Smiling

On the other side of that, we are almost 2 hours from a major airport, so we do have a huge amount of 10pm-midnight check-ins. Our check-in hours are from 3pm-10pm, It was getting to the point last year we had guest arriving at noon time all the way up to after midnight. We also have a 75 seat restaurant here, so we are never in bed until after 1am then breakfast for our guests runs from 7:30am-9:00. So each of us has a reason for our policies.

 

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Piperman wrote:

 I use it as a preemtive

It's driving me nuts.   The word is "preemptive".    Please use a spell checker.

Alright everyone,  as you were.

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Proud Texan wrote:

Piperman wrote:

 I use it as a preemtive

It's driving me nuts.   The word is "preemptive".    Please use a spell checker.

Alright everyone,  as you were.

You realize that once you post a post like this then the next time you make a typo we're all going to correct you!  (Or at least, Bree and I will!)

=)
Kk.

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YellowSocks wrote:

You realize that once you post a post like this then the next time you make a typo we're all going to correct you!  (Or at least, Bree and I will!)

=)
Kk.

Oh, no, I have been letting them go quietly...I twitch slightly and then take a deep breath. I'll only comment if the typo makes the post funny in some way. Then, I just can't help myself!

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Bree wrote:

YellowSocks wrote:

 

You realize that once you post a post like this then the next time you make a typo we're all going to correct you!  (Or at least, Bree and I will!)

=)
Kk.

Oh, no, I have been letting them go quietly...I twitch slightly and then take a deep breath. I'll only comment if the typo makes the post funny in some way. Then, I just can't help myself!

I didn't mean for everyone's typos, just the person who complained!

=)
Kk.

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YellowSocks wrote:

Bree wrote:

YellowSocks wrote:

You realize that once you post a post like this then the next time you make a typo we're all going to correct you!  (Or at least, Bree and I will!)

=)
Kk.

Oh, no, I have been letting them go quietly...I twitch slightly and then take a deep breath. I'll only comment if the typo makes the post funny in some way. Then, I just can't help myself!

I didn't mean for everyone's typos, just the person who complained!

=)
Kk.

A typo is one thing.  Not knowing how to spell is another.  I have no problems with typos.  But, if you don't know how to spell something, for God's sake use a dictionary.

 

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Proud Texan wrote:

YellowSocks wrote:

Bree wrote:

YellowSocks wrote:

You realize that once you post a post like this then the next time you make a typo we're all going to correct you!  (Or at least, Bree and I will!)

=)
Kk.

Oh, no, I have been letting them go quietly...I twitch slightly and then take a deep breath. I'll only comment if the typo makes the post funny in some way. Then, I just can't help myself!

I didn't mean for everyone's typos, just the person who complained!

=)
Kk.

A typo is one thing.  Not knowing how to spell is another.  I have no problems with typos.  But, if you don't know how to spell something, for God's sake use a dictionary.

 

 

Their ez knwo spill chekerd on thsi form sew it tis whut it tis.  I dint want erbody knot bein on hear cuz theys ain't goot at figgrin an commputin.

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people just type words quickly, but the intelligent reader will understand what he/she is trying to say.  But, for the life of me, I can't understand what you are trying to say at the very end of your post, Junnieb.  I really did try, though. 

Proud Texan's picture
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05/30/2008

trishany wrote:

people just type words quickly, but the intelligent reader will understand what he/she is trying to say. 

I totally understand what they were trying to say and I can tolerate an occasional typographical errors. My beef was with the fact that there was a consistently misspelled word when there did not have to be. Communication is a two-way street and the reader should not have to decipher mangled words because someone is either too lazy to look them up or to ignorant not to know they need to.

I'm not trying to come across as a carmudgeon here, I'm trying to encourage literacy. 

YellowSocks's picture
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05/22/2008

Proud Texan wrote:

I totally understand what they were trying to say and I can tolerate an occasional typographical errors. My beef was with the fact that there was a consistently misspelled word when there did not have to be. Communication is a two-way street and the reader should not have to decipher mangled words because someone is either too lazy to look them up or to ignorant not to know they need to.

I'm not trying to come across as a carmudgeon here, I'm trying to encourage literacy. 

Is a carmudgeon nicer than a curmudgeon?

I used to teach English.  I love playing Scrabble.  I used to work in offices and proofread documents (and the witch boss at the ad agency would have my hide if I missed anything!).  I once used Strunk and White as part of an 8th grade English curriculum.

I figure not everyone has my interest or background, so I don't expect them to touch type, spell well, or even use words correctly.  In the course of teaching I was a stickler for perfect English in my papers, but allowed great laxity for my creative writing assignments.

All of that, and what does it matter?

The point of language is to communicate concepts and ideas.  As long as my message is understood, and I understand what others are saying to me, so what if the apostrophe is dropped or added?

It's like having guests at my B&B... I want them to feel comfortable whether they barely graduated high school or have several post graduate degrees, whether they vote liberal or conservative or not at all, whether they say "creek" or "crick."  

I hope posters here on the forum can feel comfortable posting regardless whether they spell it "appalled" or "appauled."  I understand their meaning, it's good enough for me.  After watching non-touch typists using a computer, and listening to some of my friends talk, I'm actually astonished at the high level of language use we have here!

=)
Kk.

Proud Texan's picture
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Quote:

Is a carmudgeon nicer than a curmudgeon?

  oopsy!

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! 

I do hate the limitations of internet communication.   Voice inflection and body language are lost as well as the speaker's intent.  From the first, I have not intended to come across as a bad ass, but apparently that is the perception here.  I apologize if I have offended anyone.

I too have been involved professionally in writing and have written numerous biographies for a Texas publication.   I love Struck and White and Scrabble. I was involved for many years in an adult literacy program.  Most of what I saw were people who had squandered the basic education afforded to all Americans and were sometimes only marginally literate.  They had no learning disabilities except for being too lazy to learn.  That still sticks in my craw.  So, maybe I perceive "errors" a little differently than others.  I did not come from a loving stable environment and learning was not emphasized in our home, but still, I took advantage of the educational system and learned basic language skills.   As an adult, I worked to improve those.  It's never to late to learn.

As for bad grammer and spelling,  sh*t happens.  I understand that.  But can we not all aspire to improve?

 

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