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Arks's picture
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Somebody (who has more time today than I do) please investigate this new PayPal card reader for iPhone and Android and see how it compares to Square. The PayPal reader says it charges just 2.7% and takes Visa, MC, AMEX, Discover plus a few other payment methods.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/credit-card-reader

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Highlands John's picture
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Been reviewing my card processing costs of late, you might be interested in the following:-

 

Current machine fees for 2012  £524, rental of the machine £300, total for 2012 = £824

If I'd been with Pay Pal here: Standard transactions at 2.7% = £633, CNP transactions would be 3.4%= £116  total for 2012 = £749

 

That's not enough saving to make me jump from an industry standard desktop machine to a brand new technology, plus someone I know who uses the same processing bank say they are paying 1.2% (us 1.7%) and debit cards 15p (us 25p), so I think I need to phone the bank and threaten to jump.

 

 

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John, you know that Intuit offers it also in the UK, but they have chip & pin. You use a PC at home and a chip reader on the go. 

There is also mPowa. I think you need to do a little comparison shopping. 

Cost Club UK is with iZettle, though. But are you sure they won't do manual transactions? I saw a manual rate of £0.15 plus 3.5% with iZettle (and 2.75% to 1.5% on EMV transactions.) - And yes, I realize the closes Cost Club to you is 125km away.

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Highlands John's picture
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By a strange coincidence I've received my annual statement from the holdings company that lease me my machine this morning.

What I hadn't taken into consideration is that I'm charged VAT on the machine rental. That changes the figures to:-

 

Current machine fees for 2012  £524, rental of the machine £360, total for 2012 = £884

If I'd been with Pay Pal here: Standard transactions at 2.7% = £633, CNP transactions would be 3.4%= £116  total for 2012 = £749

 

Pay Pal is becoming more attractive, not spoken to bank yet.

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Highlands John wrote:

By a strange coincidence I've received my annual statement from the holdings company that lease me my machine this morning.

What I hadn't taken into consideration is that I'm charged VAT on the machine rental. That changes the figures to:-

 

Current machine fees for 2012  £524, rental of the machine £360, total for 2012 = £884

If I'd been with Pay Pal here: Standard transactions at 2.7% = £633, CNP transactions would be 3.4%= £116  total for 2012 = £749

 

Pay Pal is becoming more attractive, not spoken to bank yet.

and that is why it made sense to me to buy an iPad or iPhone here. I know it is not the same there, but the small fees were killing us, points fees, across the border fees, international card fees, etc etc, besides the % to actually swipe the card.

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Joey Bloggs wrote:

Highlands John wrote:

By a strange coincidence I've received my annual statement from the holdings company that lease me my machine this morning.

What I hadn't taken into consideration is that I'm charged VAT on the machine rental. That changes the figures to:-

 

Current machine fees for 2012  £524, rental of the machine £360, total for 2012 = £884

If I'd been with Pay Pal here: Standard transactions at 2.7% = £633, CNP transactions would be 3.4%= £116  total for 2012 = £749

 

Pay Pal is becoming more attractive, not spoken to bank yet.

and that is why it made sense to me to buy an iPad or iPhone here. I know it is not the same there, but the small fees were killing us, points fees, across the border fees, international card fees, etc etc, besides the % to actually swipe the card.

Plus the non-qual this and non-qual that and the corporate rate this and rewads rate that AND the VS fee of $2.90 per month and the $5 per month for the statement..... By the time they added everything in, on a month with NO transactions I was charged $22.90 - and I did not have a fee for the machine as I had purchased it years ago privately. All that made Sq uar e look very good.

Generic's picture
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Take a look at iZettle, which has EMV already implemented.

Highlands John's picture
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iZettle doesn't appear to allow "customer not present" transactions, which I do quite a few of, when I'm taking deposits for bookings over the phone, that was the same problem with Sumup.

Intuit does allow CNP, will look further.

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Highlands John wrote:

...plus someone I know who uses the same processing bank say they are paying 1.2% (us 1.7%) and debit cards 15p (us 25p), so I think I need to phone the bank and threaten to jump.

I agree. Work to get a better deal on your standard system. The PayPal and Square systems are good for people who don't have as much income. They were designed so street vendors and other small time operators could take the cards, but whose small amount of sales couldn't justify a standard machine with all the fees.

You're just too successful for your own business Eye-wink

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Update: Just got my sister an iPad to use PayPal Here at her store. She has poor vision and I knew she could never see it well enough to use on an iPhone or iPod Touch.

That's when I discovered that the while PayPal Here works on the iPad, it's the iPhone version running on the iPad, so it's the small iPhone version, just running out in the center of the iPad screen, not a full screen, enlarged version.

Luckily, the PayPal website says a native iPad version is coming soon. In the mean time, this tiny iPhone version is pretty much useless to her unless there's a way to enlarge it I don't know about (pinch and spread doesn't do anything).

Arks's picture
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My PayPal Here reader just arrived. No instructions in the box because none needed! Took the reader out of the box, plugged into my iPhone headphone jack. Started the Here app on the phone (you install it and set up your account, then they ship your reader), entered $1.00 as a charge and tapped the charge button. Swiped the card, it then had me sign with my finger, then it asked where I want my receipt sent. I put in my email address and tapped send. Done.

4 minutes later checked my PayPal account and it has 97 cents in it. Checked my email and there's a nice receipt from my guesthouse, including a Google map showing the location of the iPhone when the charge was made.

Nice!

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Arkansawyer wrote:

My PayPal Here reader just arrived. No instructions in the box because none needed! Took the reader out of the box, plugged into my iPhone headphone jack. Started the Here app on the phone (you install it and set up your account, then they ship your reader), entered $1.00 as a charge and tapped the charge button. Swiped the card, it then had me sign with my finger, then it asked where I want my receipt sent. I put in my email address and tapped send. Done.

4 minutes later checked my PayPal account and it has 97 cents in it. Checked my email and there's a nice receipt from my guesthouse, including a Google map showing the location of the iPhone when the charge was made.

Nice!

Sounds like it works just like Square...  cool

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copperhead wrote:

Sounds like it works just like Square...  cool

Except, if you're really in a hurry, the money's available pretty much instantly, if you use the PayPal debit card to spend it.

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yes   I have encouraged several folks I know to get one.

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In previous conversations, we discussed one of the negatives of using PP was that you had no protection with charge backs. Does that still apply with this card reader? I have a PP merchant account which I started for Res Key gift certificate orders, but don't use it any more since I went to auth.net which now takes care of our deposits and gift certificates.

 

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Breakfast Diva wrote:

In previous conversations, we discussed one of the negatives of using PP was that you had no protection with charge backs. Does that still apply with this card reader? I have a PP merchant account which I started for Res Key gift certificate orders, but don't use it any more since I went to auth.net which now takes care of our deposits and gift certificates.

 

I know I read something on this subject when first looking but now can not find it again.  What I think I recall reading is that they do provide you the opportunity to share your info about the transaction, just as a merchant account does.  But don't take my word for it, my memory is not what it was!  blush

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Maybe the Verification Team wanted to talk to us because our existing PayPal account (which I believe was a verified account) had relatively little activity on it?

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Arks's picture
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On Wednesday I also applied for the PayPal Here card reader through the app I installed on my iPhone. I already had a verified PayPal account to connect it to. I didn't get any call (so far at least) from PayPal asking questions.

I got an e-mail from them saying my reader has been shipped, and got another e-mail from them saying my PayPal debit card has been approved and has also been shipped. (You can use the debit card to spend the money you collect through the card, or of course you can easily transfer the money directly to your bank account.) While PayPal is holding the money, it can earn interest at money market rates (such as they are).

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So I applied for the PayPal Here card reader through the app on my phone, and got an e-mail from PayPal asking me to call a certain number, enter the supplied code, and talk to an agent to verify the nature of our business. I just did that and it all seemed to go fine. She asked if we had been taking credit cards previously, we haven't but I told her that we did recently get a Square and were interested in comparing the services. That didn't phase her; she's going to go ahead and activate our account for the PayPal Here app and send the card reader. We'll see if it works on my phone, which isn't actually on their list....

I recall Square making an effort at verifying who we were and the nature of our business as well, but it was all done online. (My phone wasn't on Square's list either, but they described their list as just the phones that they had actually tested, not an exclusive list of the only phones that would work.)

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Thanks Harborfields, we look forward to hearing your next report. Smiling

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Joey Bloggs wrote:

Thanks Harborfields, we look forward to hearing your next report. Smiling

Ditto

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The one difference I like with this new PP option is that it can be added to a website. Square cannot at this time.

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ThuderingWind wrote:

The one difference I like with this new PP option is that it can be added to a website. Square cannot at this time.

See that scares me, with all the PCI Compliance stuff I had to fill out they were adamant about all of that, but you must mean ADD A LINK to process it on the website? Right? Not really ON your website?

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Joey Bloggs wrote:

ThuderingWind wrote:

The one difference I like with this new PP option is that it can be added to a website. Square cannot at this time.

See that scares me, with all the PCI Compliance stuff I had to fill out they were adamant about all of that, but you must mean ADD A LINK to process it on the website? Right? Not really ON your website?

You've been able to add a PP link to your website for many years, we use it. Plus PP has a payment notification system that can call your website back when the payment is complete. Our homegrown booking system uses it. 

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Sorry for not being clear............I did know a PP link could be put on a website.  Now it is more robust if you opt to select the merchant services package thus by using the reader on site and on-line you have your payment processing in on package.

Square does not have this (and told me they don't know if they will or when).

ResKey does not have an tie-in with the readers and PP/Square software yet to link the payments and information yet. So that means extra work on the office end to track the needed info for the financial software package used to manage the property.

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Absolutely we saved on the pay per swipe method. No more monthly fees. 

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that is a very high rate at 2.7%, don't you think?

We just checked our statement from the processor:

0.22 and 1.9% for Master Card

0.21 % and 1.9 % for Visa

0.32 % and 1.9% for Discover

 

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IrisoftheWayfarer wrote:

that is a very high rate at 2.7%, don't you think?

We just checked our statement from the processor:

0.22 and 1.9% for Master Card

0.21 % and 1.9 % for Visa

0.32 % and 1.9% for Discover

But what about the other charges you pay, on top of the 1.9%? Don't you also pay PCI fees (ours is $100/year), Global VPN, member fees, account maintenance fees, surcharges for taking rewards cards, etc.? We do. Our "other fees" each month come to about $45!

The Square and PayPal systems don't have any of those extra fees. Just the flat 2.7% to 2.75% (for swiped cards).

Each business must put a pencil to it. If you do enough business each month, the 1.9% rate from a regular processor might eventually offset all the extra fees they tack on. If you don't do a large amount of charges though, the extra fees make you pay a lot more than the base 2.7% PayPal charges.

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IrisoftheWayfarer wrote:

that is a very high rate at 2.7%, don't you think?

We just checked our statement from the processor:

0.22 and 1.9% for Master Card

0.21 % and 1.9 % for Visa

0.32 % and 1.9% for Discover

 

I did not get one set % fee for MC - I had this type MC and that type MC and qual and non-qual each with its own % and same for VS plus I was assessed a minimum amount of their fees per month, a VS Network fee, plus connection fees for each transaction and connection. I did not take Disc or AMEX because of their fees. Every month I had to wait for my bank statement to discover how much they took. With Square there is no question - they tell me at the time of the charge how much they took and how much I am geting deposited into my checking account - they put in with no take out. From what I paid before 2.75% is just ducky. What was high was having $22.90 removed from my account in a month that had NO (0- ZERO) transactions. and in the winter, that is not unusual for my location (especially if they used cash or checks @ 0% fee).

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Do you also have any fixed monthly fees?

At first glance your 1.9% rates look like a better deal than 2.7% BUT you have to look at the whole picture. How many transactions per month, etc...  When you add it all up, you are paying more than 1.9% in your "effective" rate.

Up to a certain volume of credit card transactions, you will actually come out ahead paying less overall by paying the higher rate but without any other fees.

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Harborfields wrote:

Do you also have any fixed monthly fees?

At first glance your 1.9% rates look like a better deal than 2.7% BUT you have to look at the whole picture. How many transactions per month, etc...  When you add it all up, you are paying more than 1.9% in your "effective" rate.

Up to a certain volume of credit card transactions, you will actually come out ahead paying less overall by paying the higher rate but without any other fees.

I am sure that I have overlooked something. So, when I have a minute, I will check it out and report back to you.  As usual, I didn't look at the entire picture. Yup, that's me.  I know that we get a "preferred" rate because our average charge is a little over $ 500. per transaction. 

But like I said, I will check and come back to tell you what the bottom line is for us

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And just an "under the radar" comment Google is also going in this direction (merchant services). So stay tuned for that.

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Joey Bloggs wrote:

And just an "under the radar" comment Google is also going in this direction (merchant services). So stay tuned for that.

And I guess as long as everything about signup is free and you're not locked into a contract for monthly fees, there's no great problem with signing up with them all and using which ever one is currently cheaper or has the best features.

It's so good for smaller operations, I'm wondering who/what will eventually come along to spoil it all. I'm sure the big CC processors, with all their monthly fees and contracts, aren't liking this one bit.

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Arkansawyer wrote:

It's so good for smaller operations, I'm wondering who/what will eventually come along to spoil it all. I'm sure the big CC processors, with all their monthly fees and contracts, aren't liking this one bit.

And I won't feel sorry for them, not one bit!

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copperhead wrote:

Arkansawyer wrote:

It's so good for smaller operations, I'm wondering who/what will eventually come along to spoil it all. I'm sure the big CC processors, with all their monthly fees and contracts, aren't liking this one bit.

And I won't feel sorry for them, not one bit!

and neither will I ~!

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That's interesting.

I thought there was a problem with Square in the UK, in that it wont take chip+Pin cards.

But the PP site says that PP Here is coming to the UK soon, so I've registered. Presume it works with Ipad. I don't do many key-in transactions, so would work out a lot cheaper than my existing Card machine and would keep everything in one place as I use PP for website deposit payments.

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There are at least two companies offering it in the UK, I think. One of them is http://www.adyen.com/products/face-to-face-payments/chip-and-pin/

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Highlands John wrote:

That's interesting.

I thought there was a problem with Square in the UK, in that it wont take chip+Pin cards.

But the PP site says that PP Here is coming to the UK soon, so I've registered. Presume it works with Ipad. I don't do many key-in transactions, so would work out a lot cheaper than my existing Card machine and would keep everything in one place as I use PP for website deposit payments.

That's exactly my problem, no C&P for most of these systems. We have had a few international transactions that would only process with C&P. Or they have to go to phone verification and that's an extra charge.

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Highlands John wrote:

Presume it works with Ipad.

iTunes says the PayPal Here app is compatible with iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad. Requires iOS 4.3 or later. This app is optimized for iPhone 5.

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Didn't take long....  PP Here charges 2.70% while  Sq charges 2.75% per swipe. 

Main difference is that PP Here places your money in your PP acct within minutes after the transaction (swiped) and you get a debit card to use.... it is like 1 stop shop, but the money can easily be transferred (by you) to your bank any time.

Key in and scanned charges are subject to 3.5% +.15  which I believe is the same as Sq.

Accept checks @ no charge... just scan in.

The list of android phones is short.... it won't work with minefrown

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copperhead wrote:
The list of android phones is short.... it won't work with minefrown

 

Mine is not on the list either, but the software works, and I've gone ahead and ordered the reader. The Square works on my phone even though it is not on their list either. I think the list is just those phones that they have tested and can certify that it actually works on. As I have, I would go ahead and try it even if your phone is not on the list (assuming it otherwise meets the minimum requirements) -- there is nothing to lose but your time, as the software and hardware are free....

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