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dumitru

dumitru

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
361
Reaction score
60
Location
Dortmund, Germany
Hi,
I had this question for a while in my head, but decided to ask this just now.
You check your email, you find an email from person X.
The text goes something like this, not SPAM, with your hotel's name, city name, etc.
"Hi,
My name is X, I am an amateur photographer.
I will be coming to [City Name] in a week/month for a couple of days.
I would really like to drop by your B&B and take a couple of photos of the property, to feature in on my blog, in a post about [City Name].
Please drop me a message if it is something you would be interested in".
Any red flags?
Any previous experience that would turn you off?
I sent something similar to about 20 properties this Fall, while I was going around Europe... 0 replies. Z-E-R-O.
I did include a link to example photos on my blog, which I consider are somewhat decent, and much better than some hotels have on their websites. (Link for reference: http://www.brinzan.com/photography/)
I'm really lost here, and would like to hear why real business owners would be turned off by this.
 
I would be afraid you are casing the place. Many B&Bs are full of antiques and artwork.
You don't explain in your email why you would want to take pictures of homes you've never seen before.
 
TheBeachHouse said:
I would be afraid you are casing the place. Many B&Bs are full of antiques and artwork.
You don't explain in your email why you would want to take pictures of homes you've never seen before..
Click to expand...
What if you are a small hotel owner (the hotel is small, not you), something that is open 24/7?
And you don't have to get me into the house looking into the drawers, taking exterior photos would be sufficient.
Hmm... so I guess such a message should either contain a plausible reason for doing it, or contain as much information as possible about me? Like social proof?
 
Never had anyone do that to me. Only had one guy show up at the door offering to take photos.... as did many innkeepers...they were pretty crappy too.
 
It's interesting that you say it's not spam, but it is, the fact that your email includes the business name and town does little to differentiate it from this, it's technically not very difficult to write a bit of code that would trawl websites, pull out business names and towns and fire off thousands of these emails.
We're a small business and I get 30-40 emails a day of this nature and I have to sift through all of this in case there's a legitimate enquiry. You just become battle weary and something like yours gets deleted before I've got to the end of the 2nd line.
The red flag is someone I've never heard of offering to do something for me for nothing.
Sorry, I'm being very negative, but that's the reality of email.
It's not clear what you are trying to achieve, is it the advancement of your blog, are you hoping the B&B will employ you to do more photos.... whatever it is I don't think email is your answer.
 
You might get more traction if you offered to share the photos with the innkeepers, giving them license to use any that they like as they wish.
Were you hoping to get accommodation out of the deal? Either way, making that clear would also be important.
(posted simultaneously with JB)
 
from me to you Dumi:
You are not the only one... we get these all the time. "with your hotel's name, city name, etc." this is found everywhere online, it is nothing unique to a spammer/scammer. Unsolicited email IS spam.
The majority are scams, and they would want to SELL the images back to us. You do not mention a cost, or this is free.
You used the word amateur, why would we want an amateur here? Your photos are beautiful, btw, but where are they online, ie in what publications/blogs/websites?
For what it is worth: I had this happen here this year (wait 2013, but they will be here on Saturday Jan 10, and the photographer is local! It took quite a bit of convincing, and in fact part of the bargain to USE OUR PLACE for the photo shoot is that we are given photos to use in marketing free of charge. She had to book one room. Yes, one room. They won't be staying overnight I don't think, they surely can if they wish. I am happy, as always, to give credit to the photographer, and will in fact, do more marketing for her while sharing her work on our blog, website, facebook, pinterest, twitter, directories, etc.
So again, all good intentions, but that is not what we are hit with every day. Example: I launched the Elope Virginia package and have a dedicated email for it, and am already getting it filled with spam for elopement wedding directories that I NEED TO BE ON and they will give me a trial subscription for only $9.99 a month. They actually NEED MY INFO to HAVE an ELOPE DIRECTORY.
I give everything away, all the time, very seldom does anyone do anything for our B&B, very very very very seldom! So that is where this innkeeper is on this, I hope it helps you. Now if YOU LIVED HERE I would take you up on your offer, as I now know you from beans, sorta. :)
 
dumitru said:
TheBeachHouse said:
I would be afraid you are casing the place. Many B&Bs are full of antiques and artwork.
You don't explain in your email why you would want to take pictures of homes you've never seen before..
Click to expand...
What if you are a small hotel owner (the hotel is small, not you), something that is open 24/7?
And you don't have to get me into the house looking into the drawers, taking exterior photos would be sufficient.
Hmm... so I guess such a message should either contain a plausible reason for doing it, or contain as much information as possible about me? Like social proof?
.
Click to expand...
exactly.
 
Thanks for all the comments so far.
The text that I posted in the question is not the actual text, it is just pointing the general structure of the email.
Of course I would give away the photos to the property owner, for free, use them any way you please.
Personally I consider SPAM emails that have a sales pitch for some product.
If it is an email sent directly to hotel X, after I have manually went through the website, looked at the hotel/B&B, looked at what they have to offer, etc. and only after that the email is sent.
Nothing automatically generated.
I spent a couple of weeks on the road (with my wife) through Austria and Germany, and I was staying at hotels either way. I am pretty happy to pay for my accommodation, and I never expect any discounts, free nights, etc.
My only "hidden" hope was that I would get to meet and JUST TALK to some of the hotel administrators and/or owners.
As I have mentioned in my first thread here, hospitality is my passion and my long-term goal. I'm looking to start my own hotel in a few years, so I was just looking to connect with people in a similar position.
But yeah, I did expect that such an email would hit the SPAM/Trash folder as soon as I clicked "Send", so I guess I'll have to figure out a different way to engage.
One phone call?
 
It is spam.
It is the basics. It doesn't have to be from an auto generated spammer in China, it is spam if we did not ask for the email.
It is the same as "cold call" marketing.
You WANT something from it, there is no doubt. Now you have spelled it out here, as we have gotten to know you, but they have not. "Nothing is free." and to add another "It is worth what you pay for it..." so again, nothing.
You are not the only one. I hate to say that again, as you already found that out when you stepped foot on this forum. I created the linkedin forum that has nearly 2000 members. I looked at those requests to join, just today and there were 15 who were only there to SOLICIT. Marketing, professionals, all wanting in. When they get in, they do just that, they solicit.
 
dumitru said:
I sent something similar to about 20 properties this Fall, while I was going around Europe... 0 replies. Z-E-R-O.
Click to expand...
In hind sight, for only 20 properties it might have worked to send snail mail, maybe even hand-written rather than computer printed, so they KNOW it is personal and not a mass mailing of thousands.
Lots of e-mails like yours get eaten as spam before a human even gets the chance to see them. A personal letter is something they will not only hold in their hands, but open to see what it's about.
Then the next step would be to word it so they don't suspect it is a scam, or that you are expecting something in return. As was mentioned above, explain why you are doing this and that it's not to get their money! Even then, some will not believe you.
 
I get this type of e-mail frequently - in the morning I check the server and delete these before I even bring it in to my computer. As my VERY smart Mama said, There is NO free lunch!
First off, anyone can take photos of my house from the street, from the sidewalk, from the alley.... - my permission is not required as it is seen by the public. A hotel lobby would be in the same category. With a B & B, beyond my front porch is by invitation only but it would take more than an e-mail suddenly appearing (or a phone call out of the blue because I get those too). Yes, a letter or a note card would be opened. The e-mail would fall into the 6 Greek priests category.
Yes, after one has been in business for a while, we become a VERY HARD SELL. (At least I have.)
 
Joey Bloggs said:
It is spam.
It is the basics. It doesn't have to be from an auto generated spammer in China, it is spam if we did not ask for the email.
It is the same as "cold call" marketing.
You WANT something from it, there is no doubt. Now you have spelled it out here, as we have gotten to know you, but they have not. "Nothing is free." and to add another "It is worth what you pay for it..." so again, nothing.
You are not the only one. I hate to say that again, as you already found that out when you stepped foot on this forum. I created the linkedin forum that has nearly 2000 members. I looked at those requests to join, just today and there were 15 who were only there to SOLICIT. Marketing, professionals, all wanting in. When they get in, they do just that, they solicit..
Click to expand...
If going by the standard definition of SPAM (being an unsolicited email), then even legitimate inquiries and letters would fall under this category.
An OTA requesting info? SPAM.
A local travel agency requesting some info? SPAM.
A colleague asking about the weather? SPAM.
A potential customer asking about local attractions? SPAM.
This is why I think that the definition of SPAM is a bit too harsh, there are many shades of grey (BOOM!) between black and white.
So if I'm a "civilian" travel blogger, I think such emails should not fall into the same category as Nigerian princes and vi4gra crooks.
 
dumitru said:
Joey Bloggs said:
It is spam.
It is the basics. It doesn't have to be from an auto generated spammer in China, it is spam if we did not ask for the email.
It is the same as "cold call" marketing.
You WANT something from it, there is no doubt. Now you have spelled it out here, as we have gotten to know you, but they have not. "Nothing is free." and to add another "It is worth what you pay for it..." so again, nothing.
You are not the only one. I hate to say that again, as you already found that out when you stepped foot on this forum. I created the linkedin forum that has nearly 2000 members. I looked at those requests to join, just today and there were 15 who were only there to SOLICIT. Marketing, professionals, all wanting in. When they get in, they do just that, they solicit..
Click to expand...
If going by the standard definition of SPAM (being an unsolicited email), then even legitimate inquiries and letters would fall under this category.
An OTA requesting info? SPAM.
A local travel agency requesting some info? SPAM.
A colleague asking about the weather? SPAM.
A potential customer asking about local attractions? SPAM.
This is why I think that the definition of SPAM is a bit too harsh, there are many shades of grey (BOOM!) between black and white.
So if I'm a "civilian" travel blogger, I think such emails should not fall into the same category as Nigerian princes and vi4gra crooks.
.
Click to expand...
You can argue as long as you like whether your email meets the standard definition of SPAM, the fact is you use all the same techniques that thousands of spammers employ (person name/ email address, offer something for nothing, legitimate looking website, personalised email with owners name / business name etc) and judging by your success rate, SPAM is how your emails are treated.
And before you start sending out emails with "THIS IS NOT SPAM" in them.... the spammers do that too, the fly b*****ds.
 
From wikipedia, "Electronic spamming is the use of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited bulk messages (spam), especially advertising, indiscriminately."
In my opinion, Dumitru's e-mails would not meet this definition of spam, particularly if each one was individually addressed to the recipient.
But of course it is each recipient who defines spam for themselves.
I personally evaluate almost all the e-mail I get (I have set up some filters).. I look first at who the e-mail is from -- does the name make any sense. Some are obviously spam (e.g. Dr. Oz's Magical Miracle Cure) and are deleted. Then I look at the subject line -- does it make any sense? Some are obviously spam (e.g. Your FREE credit score for only $29.95!!!!!) and get deleted. Then I open and scan the message -- most are pretty easy to categorize as spam or legit. Any questionable ones I will look at the mail headers to see who really sent the message and who it was really addressed to, etc. Links are easy to evaluate (my mail program shows me the actual URL when I hover my cursor over a link). Attached files are easy to evaluate, from the file name and extension.
I get a lot of spam, but it probably takes me longer to type "delete, delete, delete...." than to actually do it.
So anyway, Dumitru's mail would most likely get through to me as a legitimate e-mail. Then the questions become, What is he asking for? What is he offering? What will be required of me -- how much will it cost? how much time is this going to take? How much disruption is it going to cause? What would be the benefit to me?
If I got an e-mail out of the blue from some unknown who said he was a traveler/photographer/blogger, that he heard about my place from XXXX source and was going to be in the area during YYYY timeframe and wondered if he could stop by to meet with me and take some photos of our place, that he wasn't asking for anything in return and that he would gladly share his work with me to use however I saw fit, I would say "sure, come on by" (as long as the timing was convenient).
We actually have a local "pleine air" painter's group that comes here once or twice a year (in the shoulder seasons). The leader calls first to make sure its OK. They spread out across the property, each choosing a different scene that suits their fancy, set up their easels, and spend the morning (or afternoon) painting. They wander around and check out each other's work. And then they leave. No mess, no fuss. The leader has a gallery on the other side of town, and has invited us to leave our brochures/rack cards with her (which reminds me, I need to follow through on that this spring!)
 
dumitru said:
Joey Bloggs said:
It is spam.
It is the basics. It doesn't have to be from an auto generated spammer in China, it is spam if we did not ask for the email.
It is the same as "cold call" marketing.
You WANT something from it, there is no doubt. Now you have spelled it out here, as we have gotten to know you, but they have not. "Nothing is free." and to add another "It is worth what you pay for it..." so again, nothing.
You are not the only one. I hate to say that again, as you already found that out when you stepped foot on this forum. I created the linkedin forum that has nearly 2000 members. I looked at those requests to join, just today and there were 15 who were only there to SOLICIT. Marketing, professionals, all wanting in. When they get in, they do just that, they solicit..
Click to expand...
If going by the standard definition of SPAM (being an unsolicited email), then even legitimate inquiries and letters would fall under this category.
An OTA requesting info? SPAM.
A local travel agency requesting some info? SPAM.
A colleague asking about the weather? SPAM.
A potential customer asking about local attractions? SPAM.
This is why I think that the definition of SPAM is a bit too harsh, there are many shades of grey (BOOM!) between black and white.
So if I'm a "civilian" travel blogger, I think such emails should not fall into the same category as Nigerian princes and vi4gra crooks.
.
Click to expand...
dumitru said:
If going by the standard definition of SPAM (being an unsolicited email), then even legitimate inquiries and letters would fall under this category.
An OTA requesting info? SPAM.
A local travel agency requesting some info? SPAM.
A colleague asking about the weather? SPAM.
A potential customer asking about local attractions? SPAM.
This is why I think that the definition of SPAM is a bit too harsh, there are many shades of grey (BOOM!) between black and white.
So if I'm a "civilian" travel blogger, I think such emails should not fall into the same category as Nigerian princes and vi4gra crooks.
Click to expand...
Nope, still spam Dumi. I would be careful saying a potential customer is spam, come on now that is grasping at straws. It was spam, it is spam. If someone sends an unsolicited email from this forum - as you were orig thought to do and got upset as it wasn't you - but happens all the time - is spam. See what we mean?
Intent. I guess that is the word we can use. If we don't know you from beans, then it is spam. Even if we do know you and you think you can email us and bug us, then it is spam. All in the eye-of the spam folder, er beholder. haha
 
Harborfields said:
From wikipedia, "Electronic spamming is the use of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited bulk messages (spam), especially advertising, indiscriminately."
In my opinion, Dumitru's e-mails would not meet this definition of spam, particularly if each one was individually addressed to the recipient.
But of course it is each recipient who defines spam for themselves.
I personally evaluate almost all the e-mail I get (I have set up some filters).. I look first at who the e-mail is from -- does the name make any sense. Some are obviously spam (e.g. Dr. Oz's Magical Miracle Cure) and are deleted. Then I look at the subject line -- does it make any sense? Some are obviously spam (e.g. Your FREE credit score for only $29.95!!!!!) and get deleted. Then I open and scan the message -- most are pretty easy to categorize as spam or legit. Any questionable ones I will look at the mail headers to see who really sent the message and who it was really addressed to, etc. Links are easy to evaluate (my mail program shows me the actual URL when I hover my cursor over a link). Attached files are easy to evaluate, from the file name and extension.
I get a lot of spam, but it probably takes me longer to type "delete, delete, delete...." than to actually do it.
So anyway, Dumitru's mail would most likely get through to me as a legitimate e-mail. Then the questions become, What is he asking for? What is he offering? What will be required of me -- how much will it cost? how much time is this going to take? How much disruption is it going to cause? What would be the benefit to me?
If I got an e-mail out of the blue from some unknown who said he was a traveler/photographer/blogger, that he heard about my place from XXXX source and was going to be in the area during YYYY timeframe and wondered if he could stop by to meet with me and take some photos of our place, that he wasn't asking for anything in return and that he would gladly share his work with me to use however I saw fit, I would say "sure, come on by" (as long as the timing was convenient).
We actually have a local "pleine air" painter's group that comes here once or twice a year (in the shoulder seasons). The leader calls first to make sure its OK. They spread out across the property, each choosing a different scene that suits their fancy, set up their easels, and spend the morning (or afternoon) painting. They wander around and check out each other's work. And then they leave. No mess, no fuss. The leader has a gallery on the other side of town, and has invited us to leave our brochures/rack cards with her (which reminds me, I need to follow through on that this spring!).
Click to expand...
Harborfields said:
From wikipedia, "Electronic spamming is the use of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited bulk messages (spam), especially advertising, indiscriminately."
In my opinion, Dumitru's e-mails would not meet this definition of spam, particularly if each one was individually addressed to the recipient.
Click to expand...
If I got this in my inbox today, it would be called spam. Like the others I have been deleting and fill my inbox. Unfortunately. In the mail it would be called junk mail and thrown away.
So the question is - what can I DO to reach these people with my offer (which I still think is solicitation anyway) or he wouldn't be offering it. :) Bless his heart.
 
I wouldn't trust you. What's in it for you? Here's an experience we had about 10 years ago. Guest was staying in the cottage for a week and after breakfast he approached us about making a documentary video showing the workings of a small B+B..... preparing breakfast, maintaining the property, greeting guests, etc. He was a documentary videographer (he at least had business cards) with professional equipment, his girl friend was attending a local conference in the mornings and he had some time on his hands. It sounded like it might be fun, and did not involve any additional prep on our part. Well, I did have to gussy up a bit first thing in the morning and plan a menu that might be presentable to film.
wink_smile.gif
But other than that....no sweat. He filmed for a day. It was fun, but we never saw the edited film, which he promised to send to us.
So where is this going? To cut to the quick just let me say that we believe that he was shacking up with his girl friend and needed a plausible excuse to give to his wife once he got back home. Voila, he had all this footage of the B+B etc. Perfect excuse to be away for a week staying in a romantic B+B. Did we ever see 2 seconds of film? Nope
 
I know this is hard to do in advance but we received a card with a photo on it already of our inn. It was startling to see our inn on a nice 'greeting' card so I actually looked at it. It wasn't anything I wanted to buy but it was something I opened and looked at.
Still, I guess I'm still not sure WHY you want to do this.
 

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