Update on Me, and Question on Square

Hi Everyone ... wow, once again it's been a long time since I've checked in and contributed. Last time, we were looking at a retro local motel (I must say, still like that one) and since then a local "dive bar" came on the market and we finally bit the bullet and bought the place. OMG, we closed on the deal mid-July of this year and it's been quite the ride since. We started considering the purchase in November of 2013, sort of lost the deal to another buyer who had closer to a full-price offer, checked in again in the spring of 2014 to find that the agent and seller were pretty much fed up with the purchasers who had no money in the game and continued to drag the whole thing out with more and more people looking at the place as potential investors. Anyway, we closed in July and we have been fast forward ever since.
So, why am I still checking here? Because, again, I respect and value the members' opinions here and I think regardless of the hospitality area, you all have great ideas and insight to offer and it can be adapted to different scenarios.
Last time I was in and reading on posts, I was interested in the discussion on Square. Some said that the 2.75% flat fee was worth it for the convenience. We have taken what was previously a cash-only bar to a credit-card enabled bar; but where we thought we would use Square Register, we ended up going with a local bank for CC processing, and purchased a CC machine for $350. After the first month, we found that the final tally is about 4% total. So, for those of you using Square, is the 2.75% the ONLY fee you're incurring, or are there additional bank or processing fees on top of that? This CC processing thing is sooooo confusing and I think that's why they get away with charging what they do, because the average guy simply just doesn't understand it.
As always, your input is very much appreciated and valued. I would rather ask here than google like crazy and shift through info that's just not pertinent. Thanks all!

Square has no additional charges. They withhold their percent of each sale, and that's it.
But there's a sales line beyond which it should be cheaper for you to use a real CC terminal. Square and their competition are best for small time operations who only do a few sales. If you do enough business, it's cheaper to pay the bank fees and all because the terminal fees are generally lower than Square's fee.
You have to do the math and see what works out best for your own business.

Arks said:

Square has no additional charges. They withhold their percent of each sale, and that's it.
But there's a sales line beyond which it should be cheaper for you to use a real CC terminal. Square and their competition are best for small time operations who only do a few sales. If you do enough business, it's cheaper to pay the bank fees and all because the terminal fees are generally lower than Square's fee.
You have to do the math and see what works out best for your own business..

Click to expand...

So confusing, Arks. I don't get it. The bank percentage is 1.99% but by the time you add the processing fees (and there is a ton of them), at least for the first month it came out to about 4%. I thought I'd hear people say that the "extra" cost of using Square at 2.75 was worth it due to the convenience of it. From the sound of it, the "extra" is nil once you get rolling and the comparison is strictly 2.75 compared to 4.

I have Square only for processing Amex. I pay a rate of 1.64% for most CC transactions, though there are higher percentages for certain cards. My keyed rate is 2.15%.
Incidentally CRAZY Square, they are taking preorders for an EMV solution (chip & PIN) for $30.... but they aren't making it available outside of the USA, yet. Which is silly... we are all already EMV. Supply it to the people who don't process with EMV and don't have EMV cards and not to those who really need it!

SecondAct said:

Arks said:

Square has no additional charges. They withhold their percent of each sale, and that's it.
But there's a sales line beyond which it should be cheaper for you to use a real CC terminal. Square and their competition are best for small time operations who only do a few sales. If you do enough business, it's cheaper to pay the bank fees and all because the terminal fees are generally lower than Square's fee.
You have to do the math and see what works out best for your own business..

Click to expand...

So confusing, Arks. I don't get it. The bank percentage is 1.99% but by the time you add the processing fees (and there is a ton of them), at least for the first month it came out to about 4%. I thought I'd hear people say that the "extra" cost of using Square at 2.75 was worth it due to the convenience of it. From the sound of it, the "extra" is nil once you get rolling and the comparison is strictly 2.75 compared to 4.
.

Click to expand...

Well, not all cards are the same rate. Reward cards etc cost us more to process. Moreover, the idea is that if you do enough business volume, that impacts either the rate your bank charges (it goes lower) or the rate Square charges (it goes higher) In the end, it is hard to do much better than the 3.5 we average through COs tco, which includes ame x which we feel we need to accept given our client base.

Jon Sable said:

I have Square only for processing Amex. I pay a rate of 1.64% for most CC transactions, though there are higher percentages for certain cards. My keyed rate is 2.15%.
Incidentally CRAZY Square, they are taking preorders for an EMV solution (chip & PIN) for $30.... but they aren't making it available outside of the USA, yet. Which is silly... we are all already EMV. Supply it to the people who don't process with EMV and don't have EMV cards and not to those who really need it!.

Click to expand...

That's right I forgot about that. I was going to follow up on that. I wondered if our Ame x charges would exceed the max and must of let it slip off my plate.

happykeeper said:

SecondAct said:

Arks said:

Square has no additional charges. They withhold their percent of each sale, and that's it.
But there's a sales line beyond which it should be cheaper for you to use a real CC terminal. Square and their competition are best for small time operations who only do a few sales. If you do enough business, it's cheaper to pay the bank fees and all because the terminal fees are generally lower than Square's fee.
You have to do the math and see what works out best for your own business..

Click to expand...

So confusing, Arks. I don't get it. The bank percentage is 1.99% but by the time you add the processing fees (and there is a ton of them), at least for the first month it came out to about 4%. I thought I'd hear people say that the "extra" cost of using Square at 2.75 was worth it due to the convenience of it. From the sound of it, the "extra" is nil once you get rolling and the comparison is strictly 2.75 compared to 4.
.

Click to expand...

Well, not all cards are the same rate. Reward cards etc cost us more to process. Moreover, the idea is that if you do enough business volume, that impacts either the rate your bank charges (it goes lower) or the rate Square charges (it goes higher) In the end, it is hard to do much better than the 3.5 we average through COs tco, which includes ame x which we feel we need to accept given our client base.
.

Click to expand...

See, I was paying 3.5% for A, plus a 9c gateway fee (and they tried to charge me a $5 monthly fee, but dropped that when I called to cancel) but Square charges just 2.75%. So I process A via Square. And I called A about it and they refused to match the rate.

Jon Sable said:

happykeeper said:

SecondAct said:

Arks said:

Square has no additional charges. They withhold their percent of each sale, and that's it.
But there's a sales line beyond which it should be cheaper for you to use a real CC terminal. Square and their competition are best for small time operations who only do a few sales. If you do enough business, it's cheaper to pay the bank fees and all because the terminal fees are generally lower than Square's fee.
You have to do the math and see what works out best for your own business..

Click to expand...

So confusing, Arks. I don't get it. The bank percentage is 1.99% but by the time you add the processing fees (and there is a ton of them), at least for the first month it came out to about 4%. I thought I'd hear people say that the "extra" cost of using Square at 2.75 was worth it due to the convenience of it. From the sound of it, the "extra" is nil once you get rolling and the comparison is strictly 2.75 compared to 4.
.

Click to expand...

Well, not all cards are the same rate. Reward cards etc cost us more to process. Moreover, the idea is that if you do enough business volume, that impacts either the rate your bank charges (it goes lower) or the rate Square charges (it goes higher) In the end, it is hard to do much better than the 3.5 we average through COs tco, which includes ame x which we feel we need to accept given our client base.
.

Click to expand...

See, I was paying 3.5% for A, plus a 9c gateway fee (and they tried to charge me a $5 monthly fee, but dropped that when I called to cancel) but Square charges just 2.75%. So I process A via Square. And I called A about it and they refused to match the rate.
.

Click to expand...

So what is the monthly max? If it is high enough, I might try to figure it out. Could save several hundred bucks.

happykeeper said:

Jon Sable said:

happykeeper said:

SecondAct said:

Arks said:

Square has no additional charges. They withhold their percent of each sale, and that's it.
But there's a sales line beyond which it should be cheaper for you to use a real CC terminal. Square and their competition are best for small time operations who only do a few sales. If you do enough business, it's cheaper to pay the bank fees and all because the terminal fees are generally lower than Square's fee.
You have to do the math and see what works out best for your own business..

Click to expand...

So confusing, Arks. I don't get it. The bank percentage is 1.99% but by the time you add the processing fees (and there is a ton of them), at least for the first month it came out to about 4%. I thought I'd hear people say that the "extra" cost of using Square at 2.75 was worth it due to the convenience of it. From the sound of it, the "extra" is nil once you get rolling and the comparison is strictly 2.75 compared to 4.
.

Click to expand...

Well, not all cards are the same rate. Reward cards etc cost us more to process. Moreover, the idea is that if you do enough business volume, that impacts either the rate your bank charges (it goes lower) or the rate Square charges (it goes higher) In the end, it is hard to do much better than the 3.5 we average through COs tco, which includes ame x which we feel we need to accept given our client base.
.

Click to expand...

See, I was paying 3.5% for A, plus a 9c gateway fee (and they tried to charge me a $5 monthly fee, but dropped that when I called to cancel) but Square charges just 2.75%. So I process A via Square. And I called A about it and they refused to match the rate.
.

Click to expand...

So what is the monthly max? If it is high enough, I might try to figure it out. Could save several hundred bucks.
.

Click to expand...

I don't know. I use Elavon via the CostClub except for A and never hit a maximum with Square. From what I know, Square holds back if you process an extremely large amount, which I think is $2002 for a week. The amount exceeding $2002 is held for 30 days. So if you process $2100 a week, they would hold back $98 minus processing fees. But this isn't standard anymore, they will change the limit for certain businesses and based on experience.

Welcome back we have missed you Second Act!

I did a workshop on Sq and was told they can handle any transaction up to $25k - it gets complicated from there. They DO have help line real people that you can call to ask about that threshold thing.
The problem I had with the processor is I never knew what was a "non-qual" (third party such as a "private label" card from your favorite charity) and qual. There was a minimum fee, a $5 per month statement fee, and a VS connect fee monthly in addition to the % charged for the different cards. My frustration was there was no way to verify they were not ripping me off. With Square, I get a daily transactions report (when it is used) and an e-mail telling me how much was charged with each transaction and how much of that is mine. I get a running total of how much is going to be deposited. There are also reports you can access for how much was food, how much was booze, wine, retail, etc., and how much tax. the next day I get an e-mail telling me how much was deposited. You can also have it tell you how much each server did in business and there is a tip line if you set it up that way.
I love the no charge unless used and no minimums plus the speed ith which it hits my bank account - AND that it is an in only, no outgo as with the processor taking their rake-off.

Jon Sable said:

happykeeper said:

Jon Sable said:

happykeeper said:

SecondAct said:

Arks said:

Square has no additional charges. They withhold their percent of each sale, and that's it.
But there's a sales line beyond which it should be cheaper for you to use a real CC terminal. Square and their competition are best for small time operations who only do a few sales. If you do enough business, it's cheaper to pay the bank fees and all because the terminal fees are generally lower than Square's fee.
You have to do the math and see what works out best for your own business..

Click to expand...

So confusing, Arks. I don't get it. The bank percentage is 1.99% but by the time you add the processing fees (and there is a ton of them), at least for the first month it came out to about 4%. I thought I'd hear people say that the "extra" cost of using Square at 2.75 was worth it due to the convenience of it. From the sound of it, the "extra" is nil once you get rolling and the comparison is strictly 2.75 compared to 4.
.

Click to expand...

Well, not all cards are the same rate. Reward cards etc cost us more to process. Moreover, the idea is that if you do enough business volume, that impacts either the rate your bank charges (it goes lower) or the rate Square charges (it goes higher) In the end, it is hard to do much better than the 3.5 we average through COs tco, which includes ame x which we feel we need to accept given our client base.
.

Click to expand...

See, I was paying 3.5% for A, plus a 9c gateway fee (and they tried to charge me a $5 monthly fee, but dropped that when I called to cancel) but Square charges just 2.75%. So I process A via Square. And I called A about it and they refused to match the rate.
.

Click to expand...

So what is the monthly max? If it is high enough, I might try to figure it out. Could save several hundred bucks.
.

Click to expand...

I don't know. I use Elavon via the CostClub except for A and never hit a maximum with Square. From what I know, Square holds back if you process an extremely large amount, which I think is $2002 for a week. The amount exceeding $2002 is held for 30 days. So if you process $2100 a week, they would hold back $98 minus processing fees. But this isn't standard anymore, they will change the limit for certain businesses and based on experience.
.

Click to expand...

Jon Sable said:

I don't know. I use Elavon via the CostClub except for A and never hit a maximum with Square. From what I know, Square holds back if you process an extremely large amount, which I think is $2002 for a week. The amount exceeding $2002 is held for 30 days. So if you process $2100 a week, they would hold back $98 minus processing fees. But this isn't standard anymore, they will change the limit for certain businesses and based on experience.

Click to expand...

Jon, I believe they have stopped this hold thing they were doing earlier.

For those processing big bucks via Sq, they do have an option to pay a monthly fee and not the 2.75% per transaction. I don't know the details (don't process that much) so go to the site and check it out.

Second Act, glad you found something you love doing!
For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you. Since the business has always been cash, it will take time before people get accustomed to paying by CC.
Some businesses around here charge a fee for using a CC. They have a sign that says they prefer cash but for a convenience fee of 3% we will accept ..............
This is a recent change in law allowing the merchant to pass along the processing fees. I am not sure how the law works but think the establishment must post. You would need to ask your processor.
Best of luck to you! Cheers!

Copperhead said:

Second Act, glad you found something you love doing!
For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you. Since the business has always been cash, it will take time before people get accustomed to paying by CC.
Some businesses around here charge a fee for using a CC. They have a sign that says they prefer cash but for a convenience fee of 3% we will accept ..............
This is a recent change in law allowing the merchant to pass along the processing fees. I am not sure how the law works but think the establishment must post. You would need to ask your processor.
Best of luck to you! Cheers!.

Click to expand...

Copperhead said:

For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you.

Click to expand...

Is there a hard number that you can not exceed?

happykeeper said:

Copperhead said:

Second Act, glad you found something you love doing!
For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you. Since the business has always been cash, it will take time before people get accustomed to paying by CC.
Some businesses around here charge a fee for using a CC. They have a sign that says they prefer cash but for a convenience fee of 3% we will accept ..............
This is a recent change in law allowing the merchant to pass along the processing fees. I am not sure how the law works but think the establishment must post. You would need to ask your processor.
Best of luck to you! Cheers!.

Click to expand...

Copperhead said:

For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you.

Click to expand...

Is there a hard number that you can not exceed?
.

Click to expand...

I believe Kathleen answered that : $25K. I doubt many B & B's would exceed that amount

happykeeper said:

Copperhead said:

Second Act, glad you found something you love doing!
For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you. Since the business has always been cash, it will take time before people get accustomed to paying by CC.
Some businesses around here charge a fee for using a CC. They have a sign that says they prefer cash but for a convenience fee of 3% we will accept ..............
This is a recent change in law allowing the merchant to pass along the processing fees. I am not sure how the law works but think the establishment must post. You would need to ask your processor.
Best of luck to you! Cheers!.

Click to expand...

Copperhead said:

For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you.

Click to expand...

Is there a hard number that you can not exceed?
.

Click to expand...

25k in one transaction

Copperhead said:

Jon Sable said:

happykeeper said:

Jon Sable said:

happykeeper said:

SecondAct said:

Arks said:

Square has no additional charges. They withhold their percent of each sale, and that's it.
But there's a sales line beyond which it should be cheaper for you to use a real CC terminal. Square and their competition are best for small time operations who only do a few sales. If you do enough business, it's cheaper to pay the bank fees and all because the terminal fees are generally lower than Square's fee.
You have to do the math and see what works out best for your own business..

Click to expand...

So confusing, Arks. I don't get it. The bank percentage is 1.99% but by the time you add the processing fees (and there is a ton of them), at least for the first month it came out to about 4%. I thought I'd hear people say that the "extra" cost of using Square at 2.75 was worth it due to the convenience of it. From the sound of it, the "extra" is nil once you get rolling and the comparison is strictly 2.75 compared to 4.
.

Click to expand...

Well, not all cards are the same rate. Reward cards etc cost us more to process. Moreover, the idea is that if you do enough business volume, that impacts either the rate your bank charges (it goes lower) or the rate Square charges (it goes higher) In the end, it is hard to do much better than the 3.5 we average through COs tco, which includes ame x which we feel we need to accept given our client base.
.

Click to expand...

See, I was paying 3.5% for A, plus a 9c gateway fee (and they tried to charge me a $5 monthly fee, but dropped that when I called to cancel) but Square charges just 2.75%. So I process A via Square. And I called A about it and they refused to match the rate.
.

Click to expand...

So what is the monthly max? If it is high enough, I might try to figure it out. Could save several hundred bucks.
.

Click to expand...

I don't know. I use Elavon via the CostClub except for A and never hit a maximum with Square. From what I know, Square holds back if you process an extremely large amount, which I think is $2002 for a week. The amount exceeding $2002 is held for 30 days. So if you process $2100 a week, they would hold back $98 minus processing fees. But this isn't standard anymore, they will change the limit for certain businesses and based on experience.
.

Click to expand...

Jon Sable said:

I don't know. I use Elavon via the CostClub except for A and never hit a maximum with Square. From what I know, Square holds back if you process an extremely large amount, which I think is $2002 for a week. The amount exceeding $2002 is held for 30 days. So if you process $2100 a week, they would hold back $98 minus processing fees. But this isn't standard anymore, they will change the limit for certain businesses and based on experience.

Click to expand...

Jon, I believe they have stopped this hold thing they were doing earlier.

For those processing big bucks via Sq, they do have an option to pay a monthly fee and not the 2.75% per transaction. I don't know the details (don't process that much) so go to the site and check it out.
.

Click to expand...

They got rid of the flat rate option. And it depends on the business for the holdback, they aren't as transparent about it anymore.

happykeeper said:

Copperhead said:

Second Act, glad you found something you love doing!
For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you. Since the business has always been cash, it will take time before people get accustomed to paying by CC.
Some businesses around here charge a fee for using a CC. They have a sign that says they prefer cash but for a convenience fee of 3% we will accept ..............
This is a recent change in law allowing the merchant to pass along the processing fees. I am not sure how the law works but think the establishment must post. You would need to ask your processor.
Best of luck to you! Cheers!.

Click to expand...

Copperhead said:

For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you.

Click to expand...

Is there a hard number that you can not exceed?
.

Click to expand...

happykeeper said:

Is there a hard number that you can not exceed?

Click to expand...

Can't find it now, but somewhere I saw a graph someone made up showing the cost of Square vs. bank terminals compared to yearly amount charged on credit cards, and the amount of charges at which (the lower bank terminal % per transaction + monthly/yearly charges) gains the advantage over (the higher Square % per transaction).
I know for my sister's little store, which does about $600/month in credit card charges, it's cheaper for her to use Square, but for B&Bs that charge thousands per month, it eventually becomes cheaper to use the bank terminals.
Hope somebody has the time to look this up for us...again.

Thanks all for your input. We may decide to switch over to Square as there's no commitment, other than needing to renew the account if you don't process anything in a 2-year period. They also have the free Square Register app, which though very basic, provides a nice POS system for small businesses.

gillumhouse said:

happykeeper said:

Copperhead said:

Second Act, glad you found something you love doing!
For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you. Since the business has always been cash, it will take time before people get accustomed to paying by CC.
Some businesses around here charge a fee for using a CC. They have a sign that says they prefer cash but for a convenience fee of 3% we will accept ..............
This is a recent change in law allowing the merchant to pass along the processing fees. I am not sure how the law works but think the establishment must post. You would need to ask your processor.
Best of luck to you! Cheers!.

Click to expand...

Copperhead said:

For processing, reg. processors vs Square would depend on the ave amount you process monthly to determine which will be better for you.

Click to expand...

Is there a hard number that you can not exceed?
.

Click to expand...

25k in one transaction
.

Click to expand...

gillumhouse said:

25k in one transaction

Click to expand...

On one transaction or in one month? I thought it was one month.