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CaliGirl

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Question for this crowd regarding breakfast. . .think back to when you first started since I am new to this biz. . .did you first plan set menus to determine approximately how much it would cost to buy the food needed to serve breakfast and then build that into the price of your rooms? Trying to determine if we serve breakfast and have a wine & cheese happy hour how much it will cost and once we build that into the room rate, how much of the room rate actually goes into the bank. Also, for anyone that outsources housekeeping, do you build that into your room rate or bill as a separate charge so that it does not increase your room rate? Appreciate the feedback!
 
I don't think you can add a separate fee for housekeeping. The breakfast, housekeeping and other normal amenities are built into the price of the room.
You could possibly charge a fee for room service or a cheese tray in the room.
 
I just cook. My rate is what I can get after years of slowing increasing rates. The rest is just expenses of doing business.
 
I think back in the day, a standard expense of $5/person covered breakfast. If you're adding anything else on, like the wine and cheese, figure that into the cost of the room. You can start with party websites that day how much cheeses, crackers, etc should be on the table for the number of attendees. Then you'll have to figure out how that lines up with your guests, but it's a starting point.
Housekeeping is in the room rate. Why? Because you will get guests who won't want to pay for it and will argue with you.
Look at it this way - you used to buy a plane ticket that got you and your luggage on the plane. You got a nice meal on long distance and some fun snacks on the short flights. Now you get the middle seat. Period. Your luggage is extra. The snacks are extra. The window seat is extra. The aisle seat is extra. The headphones are extra. The WiFi is extra. Selecting your seat in advance is extra. How do you feel about all the extra fees? Probably like me, but maybe not, just raise the damn airfare and let me fly in peace.
 
I tend to work backwards. What's the highest amount I can get by with on my room rates? Then subtract everything you need to keep the place running/food/all expenses/utilities/insurance, etc. Is there plenty of profit left over? If the answer is yes, don't worry about whether you spend $5 or $7 on your breakfast foods. I live frugally & buy frugally (by choice) and if I didn't make a really good profit, I wouldn't be doing this.
Everything except taxes needs to be included in your room rate.
 
Is the B & B in your home? Or is this just a commercial inn? Maybe you can add all that in to your rate, but if it is your home...I don't think appropriate to make people pay for housekeeping. Hey that's our job!
 
Breakfast Diva said:
I tend to work backwards. What's the highest amount I can get by with on my room rates? Then subtract everything you need to keep the place running/food/all expenses/utilities/insurance, etc. Is there plenty of profit left over? If the answer is yes, don't worry about whether you spend $5 or $7 on your breakfast foods. I live frugally & buy frugally (by choice) and if I didn't make a really good profit, I wouldn't be doing this.
Everything except taxes needs to be included in your room rate..
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Breakfast Diva said:
Everything except taxes needs to be included in your room rate.
Click to expand...
That sums it up right there. We don't, can't, give anything away that costs actually, real money.
 
Morticia said:
I think back in the day, a standard expense of $5/person covered breakfast. If you're adding anything else on, like the wine and cheese, figure that into the cost of the room. You can start with party websites that day how much cheeses, crackers, etc should be on the table for the number of attendees. Then you'll have to figure out how that lines up with your guests, but it's a starting point.
Housekeeping is in the room rate. Why? Because you will get guests who won't want to pay for it and will argue with you.
Look at it this way - you used to buy a plane ticket that got you and your luggage on the plane. You got a nice meal on long distance and some fun snacks on the short flights. Now you get the middle seat. Period. Your luggage is extra. The snacks are extra. The window seat is extra. The aisle seat is extra. The headphones are extra. The WiFi is extra. Selecting your seat in advance is extra. How do you feel about all the extra fees? Probably like me, but maybe not, just raise the damn airfare and let me fly in peace..
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Love the airline analogy. Good point. No one wants to be nickeled & dimed. Will do some research to come up with a price per head for food & wine. Thanks.
 
Breakfast Diva said:
I tend to work backwards. What's the highest amount I can get by with on my room rates? Then subtract everything you need to keep the place running/food/all expenses/utilities/insurance, etc. Is there plenty of profit left over? If the answer is yes, don't worry about whether you spend $5 or $7 on your breakfast foods. I live frugally & buy frugally (by choice) and if I didn't make a really good profit, I wouldn't be doing this.
Everything except taxes needs to be included in your room rate..
Click to expand...
This would be closest to our approach.
We charge what the market will bear and add as much value as is needed to sustain that rate. We recently pushed into new territory and we are adding value until we are satisfied guests feel we are a good value.
 
Bed and breakfast ... all inclusive.
If you say room is this much, breakfast is this much, by the way there is a housekeeping surcharge ... it's almost like saying the room is $150 but you're going to be charged $25 to clean it ... so your fee is actually $175. (housekeeping can never be optional, rooms must be cleaned as well as the entire b&b) And if you want breakfast it's another $10. Plus tax. I don't think this will go over very well with guests who will see $150 and that is what they will want to pay.Not the resulting $185. plus tax.
A breakfast fee is a problem - you will have guests say they don't want breakfast but then show up for it or who will pay for it and then demand a refund because they are leaving before you serve. For me it was included -- very few guests opted to leave without eating. Always had a full house for breakfast.
Personally I really don't like buying something (service or product) that looks like a good price but then add on this and this and this. Not your intent but it feels deceptive.
 
ps My first month or so I discovered I was serving too much food. A plated breakfast plus I had hardboiled eggs, and yogurts, cereals and muffins and things on a buffet table. I've said this so many times but I'll say it again. The buffet table was for those who didn't want the plated breakfast ... not for those who gleefully told me they were taking food with them and wouldn't even have to buy lunch. As though it were free for me to provide. Signage didn't help. So I had to eliminate the buffet table and offer those items to those who declined the plated breakfast.
 
seashanty said:
Bed and breakfast ... all inclusive.
If you say room is this much, breakfast is this much, by the way there is a housekeeping surcharge ... it's almost like saying the room is $150 but you're going to be charged $25 to clean it ... so your fee is actually $175. (housekeeping can never be optional, rooms must be cleaned as well as the entire b&b) And if you want breakfast it's another $10. Plus tax. I don't think this will go over very well with guests who will see $150 and that is what they will want to pay.Not the resulting $185. plus tax.
A breakfast fee is a problem - you will have guests say they don't want breakfast but then show up for it or who will pay for it and then demand a refund because they are leaving before you serve. For me it was included -- very few guests opted to leave without eating. Always had a full house for breakfast.
Personally I really don't like buying something (service or product) that looks like a good price but then add on this and this and this. Not your intent but it feels deceptive..
Click to expand...
See in the UK selling both room only and BB options is very popular
Also many sell as room only - then ring the guest to ask if they would like to add breakfast - this dramatically reduces their commission bills to the online travel agencies. For myself I think its too much work to keep it straight as well as you will get people who say no then smell the breakfast and want to come when you have only prepared for x amount. plus you would have to keep checking people hadn't snuck in etc.
 
Not sure anyone has mentioned this yet, but you should check the conditions on your local/county/state permits and licenses. In some jurisdictions, a B&B might not be allowed to offer any meals as a separate charge without going to the additional trouble of obtaining (if you can) a restaurant license with all that that entails (commercial kitchen, etc...). In other words, your license to operate as a B&B may restrict what, when, how, and to whom you can serve food, so you need to be sure to understand those limitations.
 
You need to figure what ALL of your costs are going to be and then determine how much you need to make to cover those and make a living. If you have a reasonable idea of what the occupancy rate is going to be, then you'll be able to figure out what your room costs should be. Here our rates started at $165-$295 10 years ago and I've been increasing them yearly as my costs of food, utilities, etc. went up and now they are $200-$325. (Those prices are higher for peak times, holidays and of course foliage). In my situation, we live in a state where the property taxes are very high - I pay over $24,000 a year. So in that case, I better be able to make enough on the rooms with our occupancy to cover that $24K or that would come out of my income which isn't that much to support a family of 4.
By the way, I tried wine and cheese for a little while this past year. Our guests are very active people and often come back in from long days, shower and then go out to dinner. I was throwing out lots of crackers and cheese after it had been a couple hours and many people are particular about their wine. I realized that my afternoon cookies are much more popular for my crowd so I ditched that idea.
As someone above said, you should figure it so that you make a nice living doing it or you won't want to do it for long.
 
MtnKeeper said:
You need to figure what ALL of your costs are going to be and then determine how much you need to make to cover those and make a living. If you have a reasonable idea of what the occupancy rate is going to be, then you'll be able to figure out what your room costs should be. Here our rates started at $165-$295 10 years ago and I've been increasing them yearly as my costs of food, utilities, etc. went up and now they are $200-$325. (Those prices are higher for peak times, holidays and of course foliage). In my situation, we live in a state where the property taxes are very high - I pay over $24,000 a year. So in that case, I better be able to make enough on the rooms with our occupancy to cover that $24K or that would come out of my income which isn't that much to support a family of 4.
By the way, I tried wine and cheese for a little while this past year. Our guests are very active people and often come back in from long days, shower and then go out to dinner. I was throwing out lots of crackers and cheese after it had been a couple hours and many people are particular about their wine. I realized that my afternoon cookies are much more popular for my crowd so I ditched that idea.
As someone above said, you should figure it so that you make a nice living doing it or you won't want to do it for long..
Click to expand...
thanks for the reminder. I wanted to address the wine and cheese idea. it sounds romantic and inviting, but for us, it would be: 1) more cost and more importantly, 2) more time.
At 4 or 5 PM, we are having wine alright, but we don't feel like sharing. That is our time. We've done breakfast, cleanup, checkouts, room cleaning, laundry, food shopping and incidentals. It is now time to take 10 minutes for ourselves.
I'm friendly, but I need my quiet time.
 
Thank you all for your feedback. Will take your advice and build everything into the room price. Now to figure out how much it will cost per head to serve a hot breakfast and wine/cheese hour, plus utilities, expenses, etc. The good news is that the B&B is in wine country, and we have a winery on property but it still costs money to serve it. Yes, we have the appropriate County approvals. I still have to take the Food Safety Certification - fingers crossed since I heard it is 90 questions! BTW - I registered for the Aspiring Innkeepers Cabbi Conference in January so hope to learn a lot of tips & tricks.
 
CaliGirl said:
Thank you all for your feedback. Will take your advice and build everything into the room price. Now to figure out how much it will cost per head to serve a hot breakfast and wine/cheese hour, plus utilities, expenses, etc. The good news is that the B&B is in wine country, and we have a winery on property but it still costs money to serve it. Yes, we have the appropriate County approvals. I still have to take the Food Safety Certification - fingers crossed since I heard it is 90 questions! BTW - I registered for the Aspiring Innkeepers Cabbi Conference in January so hope to learn a lot of tips & tricks..
Click to expand...
I would also say if you are doing a wine and cheese hour I would (as you have the stuff in anyway) offer it as a room service add on ie set price for a cheese plate/bottle of wine - I am a grumpy sod don't want to share my quiet time with others but would pay for it in my room as a snack - costs nothing to have as an option.
 
seashanty said:
ps My first month or so I discovered I was serving too much food. A plated breakfast plus I had hardboiled eggs, and yogurts, cereals and muffins and things on a buffet table. I've said this so many times but I'll say it again. The buffet table was for those who didn't want the plated breakfast ... not for those who gleefully told me they were taking food with them and wouldn't even have to buy lunch. As though it were free for me to provide. Signage didn't help. So I had to eliminate the buffet table and offer those items to those who declined the plated breakfast..
Click to expand...
We learned that lesson with the bananas. They rarely ended in their fruit cup where they were supposed to go. They went out the door as fast as we could refill them.
 
CaliGirl said:
Thank you all for your feedback. Will take your advice and build everything into the room price. Now to figure out how much it will cost per head to serve a hot breakfast and wine/cheese hour, plus utilities, expenses, etc. The good news is that the B&B is in wine country, and we have a winery on property but it still costs money to serve it. Yes, we have the appropriate County approvals. I still have to take the Food Safety Certification - fingers crossed since I heard it is 90 questions! BTW - I registered for the Aspiring Innkeepers Cabbi Conference in January so hope to learn a lot of tips & tricks..
Click to expand...
I could see it being more expected in wine country. makes sense.
 
loved giving wine and cheese - then got a warning from the inspector that I didn't have a liquor license and couldn't. so it was back to the cookies. less expensive, too! but those who enjoyed the wine were bumming. There is some way around it ... if guest shares wine or something. Sometimes I'd try something until I found out it wasn't allowed. Other times I'd find rules and regs so confusing ... I'd decide it wasn't worth it.
 

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