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ChefDRG

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Financing in progress and the search is on. I've noticed that there are a few areas that have quite a few properties for sale. Does that seem like a red flag to you? I keep searching the area to see if there's something that is making numerous inns hit the market at once but not having much luck. Do you any of you have any knowledge about Rock/Cam, ME area and baseball town, NY? Is it just because there are so many B&B's in those areas to begin with? Or is there something I should know?
Thanks,
DRG
 
Too many businesses for sale in one area is definitely a concern. So is too many businesses in an area not for sale. You need to determine if the market you're considering is over-roomed or under-served. The latter is clearly better.
In my search 5 years ago, I created a scoring system, which included everything from average occupancy to whether area was a 12-month tourism area or a summer-only area. Whether I would want to live in the town accounted for a lot of points, too.
I recommend looking at average rates in your area and occupancy numbers, not just from the property you're considering, but competitors. I discounted one area because I was able to go on OTAs during a peak holiday season and found over a hundred rooms available at prices below the property for sale's average daily rate.
One challenge these days to that strategy is Air. They're going to be your biggest competitor so make sure you look and see how many listings they have and what they're getting. I might have adjusted my offer price for my current property down a little had I taken into account the growth of Air and the number of listings in our area.
 
Rockland, ME, is something of a gritty industrial town, but it is the commercial center for that part of the coast, and has been developing a strong reputation as a "foodee" destination. It does have its own attractions, too. Camden, ME, is a somewhat upscale tourist town, the main drawback being the traffic on Route 1 right through the center of town. Camden is competing with places like Boothbay Harbor and Bar Harbor, each with their own attractions. In Camden, one of those is the Camden Hills State Park. Rockport, in between Camden and Rockland, is a quiet town sort of off the main beaten path, and a home to some renowned arts and crafts schools (e.g. the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship, and the Maine Media Workshops). Tourism in Maine is strong and has been growing, and unless we see some huge spikes in gas prices, that is likely to continue. It is, of course, strongly seasonal -- for many places, July and August are when you make almost all of your money. The Camden hills do have a ski area, but it is not a destination resort type that will be a big draw in the winter (and of course will be highly weather dependent).
So I don't see any particular red flags in terms of the region. Of course you have to look at each individual property carefully. A large number of properties for sale is probably the result of two factors, one as you've already mentioned is that there are a large number in the area to begin with; the second could be that inns might tend to come up for sale in waves -- if all the innkeepers in an area are all about the same age or have all been in the business for about the same period of time (i.e. they all bought their inns in the previous wave of sales), then it makes sense that a lot of them might all come up for sale around the same time, too.
 
See in my town 50 B&B's probably 5 for sale - mainly due to burn out - its just too busy here but mortgages are high so you have to keep up occupancy to pay it. too many people think its a doddle and can't handle the day to day. Plus many have been thinking of selling for a while but due to the down turn wouldnt get what they paid for it - now its picking up they will so all are going on.
 
It's off season in Camden/Rockland - this is when property IS for sale. No one wants to deal with selling when the joint is full. Better questions: how long have they been on the market, how much turnover in ownership is there in the area or at a particular property? If there's a big turnover at one place you're looking I'd say that was a red flag. If the turnover rate in the whole town is high, it might be a tough town. (Average years of ownership in my town is 10, but a couple of places keep getting sold. And 5 places have closed altogether in the 12 years we've been here.)
There are what, 25 inns in Camden alone? Sure there are going to be a few for sale. (BTW, I know of one with gorgeous views. Good numbers. Could be expanded a few months for better numbers.)
We have guests who regularly ask why it seems like everything along the coast is for sale in the summer. (Residential real estate) Because that's when thousands of people are driving by everyday of the week. All those signs are back in the garage now. They'll be hauled out in may again.
 
Rockland, ME, is something of a gritty industrial town, but it is the commercial center for that part of the coast, and has been developing a strong reputation as a "foodee" destination. It does have its own attractions, too. Camden, ME, is a somewhat upscale tourist town, the main drawback being the traffic on Route 1 right through the center of town. Camden is competing with places like Boothbay Harbor and Bar Harbor, each with their own attractions. In Camden, one of those is the Camden Hills State Park. Rockport, in between Camden and Rockland, is a quiet town sort of off the main beaten path, and a home to some renowned arts and crafts schools (e.g. the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship, and the Maine Media Workshops). Tourism in Maine is strong and has been growing, and unless we see some huge spikes in gas prices, that is likely to continue. It is, of course, strongly seasonal -- for many places, July and August are when you make almost all of your money. The Camden hills do have a ski area, but it is not a destination resort type that will be a big draw in the winter (and of course will be highly weather dependent).
So I don't see any particular red flags in terms of the region. Of course you have to look at each individual property carefully. A large number of properties for sale is probably the result of two factors, one as you've already mentioned is that there are a large number in the area to begin with; the second could be that inns might tend to come up for sale in waves -- if all the innkeepers in an area are all about the same age or have all been in the business for about the same period of time (i.e. they all bought their inns in the previous wave of sales), then it makes sense that a lot of them might all come up for sale around the same time, too..
We're looking at Rockland for retirement. And Belfast. Damariscotta. Yarmouth.
If cheffie is still looking in two years... ;-)
 
ChefDRG said:
Financing in progress and the search is on. I've noticed that there are a few areas that have quite a few properties for sale. Does that seem like a red flag to you? I keep searching the area to see if there's something that is making numerous inns hit the market at once but not having much luck. Do you any of you have any knowledge about Rock/Cam, ME area and baseball town, NY? Is it just because there are so many B&B's in those areas to begin with? Or is there something I should know?
Thanks,
DRG
There are two for sale in Rockport, MA. Both are listed as single family homes. One is on Mt. Pleasent and the other is on Marmion Way.
 
My town is very expensive. We have thousands or air, vacation rentals, motels, guest houses, hotels, inns, and B&Bs. One B&B is for sale and listed here.
 
You also have airbeanandbean coming in and undercutting most high occupancy areas.
Then you have the dreamers who renovate and open a new inn when so many are already for sale, because where there are many it must mean good income.
The only red flag I would mention is having owners not willing to give you the scoop. Remember they want to sell, so fact checking is always in order.
 
The more inns the more turnover. Innkeepers don't last forever. 10 years is a long shelf life.
Consider that majority of innkeepers begin after retirement or close to it. So add 10 years to them, and you will find B&Bs for sale. It is not an easy job, doing it later in life has got to be extra hard.
 
Camden Inn owners are experiencing huge Air problems . Lots of press re occupancy drops. Several awesome properties for sale in Rockland, which as mentioned has become trendy.
 
My town is very expensive. We have thousands or air, vacation rentals, motels, guest houses, hotels, inns, and B&Bs. One B&B is for sale and listed here..
I don't know where your town is. Newbie heeya!
 
See in my town 50 B&B's probably 5 for sale - mainly due to burn out - its just too busy here but mortgages are high so you have to keep up occupancy to pay it. too many people think its a doddle and can't handle the day to day. Plus many have been thinking of selling for a while but due to the down turn wouldnt get what they paid for it - now its picking up they will so all are going on..
Where's your town?
 
It's off season in Camden/Rockland - this is when property IS for sale. No one wants to deal with selling when the joint is full. Better questions: how long have they been on the market, how much turnover in ownership is there in the area or at a particular property? If there's a big turnover at one place you're looking I'd say that was a red flag. If the turnover rate in the whole town is high, it might be a tough town. (Average years of ownership in my town is 10, but a couple of places keep getting sold. And 5 places have closed altogether in the 12 years we've been here.)
There are what, 25 inns in Camden alone? Sure there are going to be a few for sale. (BTW, I know of one with gorgeous views. Good numbers. Could be expanded a few months for better numbers.)
We have guests who regularly ask why it seems like everything along the coast is for sale in the summer. (Residential real estate) Because that's when thousands of people are driving by everyday of the week. All those signs are back in the garage now. They'll be hauled out in may again..
Could you message me about that particular inn?
 
Too many businesses for sale in one area is definitely a concern. So is too many businesses in an area not for sale. You need to determine if the market you're considering is over-roomed or under-served. The latter is clearly better.
In my search 5 years ago, I created a scoring system, which included everything from average occupancy to whether area was a 12-month tourism area or a summer-only area. Whether I would want to live in the town accounted for a lot of points, too.
I recommend looking at average rates in your area and occupancy numbers, not just from the property you're considering, but competitors. I discounted one area because I was able to go on OTAs during a peak holiday season and found over a hundred rooms available at prices below the property for sale's average daily rate.
One challenge these days to that strategy is Air. They're going to be your biggest competitor so make sure you look and see how many listings they have and what they're getting. I might have adjusted my offer price for my current property down a little had I taken into account the growth of Air and the number of listings in our area..
I think I'm going to to have to implement your scoring system. I like that. I have some set criteria but I'm very open to location.
So, with all the Air listings...would y'all say it's still worth venturing into this biz? Is it still a thriving industry competing with Air?
 
Too many businesses for sale in one area is definitely a concern. So is too many businesses in an area not for sale. You need to determine if the market you're considering is over-roomed or under-served. The latter is clearly better.
In my search 5 years ago, I created a scoring system, which included everything from average occupancy to whether area was a 12-month tourism area or a summer-only area. Whether I would want to live in the town accounted for a lot of points, too.
I recommend looking at average rates in your area and occupancy numbers, not just from the property you're considering, but competitors. I discounted one area because I was able to go on OTAs during a peak holiday season and found over a hundred rooms available at prices below the property for sale's average daily rate.
One challenge these days to that strategy is Air. They're going to be your biggest competitor so make sure you look and see how many listings they have and what they're getting. I might have adjusted my offer price for my current property down a little had I taken into account the growth of Air and the number of listings in our area..
I think I'm going to to have to implement your scoring system. I like that. I have some set criteria but I'm very open to location.
So, with all the Air listings...would y'all say it's still worth venturing into this biz? Is it still a thriving industry competing with Air?
.
We actually do well listing on Air ourselves....
 
ChefDRG said:
Financing in progress and the search is on. I've noticed that there are a few areas that have quite a few properties for sale. Does that seem like a red flag to you? I keep searching the area to see if there's something that is making numerous inns hit the market at once but not having much luck. Do you any of you have any knowledge about Rock/Cam, ME area and baseball town, NY? Is it just because there are so many B&B's in those areas to begin with? Or is there something I should know?
Thanks,
DRG
There are two for sale in Rockport, MA. Both are listed as single family homes. One is on Mt. Pleasent and the other is on Marmion Way..
I'd move to Rockport or Cape Cod in a heartbeat. I used to live in MA. It was the first place I lived when I moved to the US from Canada. My son was born in MA. And we are big MA sports fans.
 
It's off season in Camden/Rockland - this is when property IS for sale. No one wants to deal with selling when the joint is full. Better questions: how long have they been on the market, how much turnover in ownership is there in the area or at a particular property? If there's a big turnover at one place you're looking I'd say that was a red flag. If the turnover rate in the whole town is high, it might be a tough town. (Average years of ownership in my town is 10, but a couple of places keep getting sold. And 5 places have closed altogether in the 12 years we've been here.)
There are what, 25 inns in Camden alone? Sure there are going to be a few for sale. (BTW, I know of one with gorgeous views. Good numbers. Could be expanded a few months for better numbers.)
We have guests who regularly ask why it seems like everything along the coast is for sale in the summer. (Residential real estate) Because that's when thousands of people are driving by everyday of the week. All those signs are back in the garage now. They'll be hauled out in may again..
Could you message me about that particular inn?
.
ChefDRG said:
Could you message me about that particular inn?
Not to be too nosy, but if you're looking in Camden I'm assuming you have deep pockets. Yes?
 
ChefDRG said:
Financing in progress and the search is on. I've noticed that there are a few areas that have quite a few properties for sale. Does that seem like a red flag to you? I keep searching the area to see if there's something that is making numerous inns hit the market at once but not having much luck. Do you any of you have any knowledge about Rock/Cam, ME area and baseball town, NY? Is it just because there are so many B&B's in those areas to begin with? Or is there something I should know?
Thanks,
DRG
There are two for sale in Rockport, MA. Both are listed as single family homes. One is on Mt. Pleasent and the other is on Marmion Way..
I'd move to Rockport or Cape Cod in a heartbeat. I used to live in MA. It was the first place I lived when I moved to the US from Canada. My son was born in MA. And we are big MA sports fans.
.
Have you checked out the inns for sale on the Cape?
 
ChefDRG said:
Financing in progress and the search is on. I've noticed that there are a few areas that have quite a few properties for sale. Does that seem like a red flag to you? I keep searching the area to see if there's something that is making numerous inns hit the market at once but not having much luck. Do you any of you have any knowledge about Rock/Cam, ME area and baseball town, NY? Is it just because there are so many B&B's in those areas to begin with? Or is there something I should know?
Thanks,
DRG
There are two for sale in Rockport, MA. Both are listed as single family homes. One is on Mt. Pleasent and the other is on Marmion Way..
I'd move to Rockport or Cape Cod in a heartbeat. I used to live in MA. It was the first place I lived when I moved to the US from Canada. My son was born in MA. And we are big MA sports fans.
.
Have you checked out the inns for sale on the Cape?
.
It's definitely on my list! I'm looking Carolinas to Maine, although I've been given a good lead in GA worth checking out. Any suggestions?
 
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