unsupportive family

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Posted on Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:51pm

nsanko

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I am an aspiring innkeeper diligently doing my research about all aspects of the B&B business. I am doing online research, reading books and will attend a seminar for aspriing innkeepers at the end of January. My friends and boyfriend are supportive, because they see that I am taking my research seriously and not ignoring the fact that starting and maintaining any business is hard work. But my parents and sister and brother-in-law are less encouraging. Have any of you encountered this lack of support from family? How did you handle it? I It's tough not to get the support you hoped for from those nearest and dearest. Thanks.

This comment (83182) was in reply to the Original Topic on Wed, 09/01/2010 - 6:03am

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StonehengeBNB

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Our families are incredibly supportive of us. If anything, my mom (I'm 39) is uber-excited about offering her suggestions on decorating, etc. For our startup, it was reasonably easy since we already have the house--which we had bought for ourselves, and it was simply large enough to give us this opportunity to learn about being Innkeepers first hand (as opposed to lots fo nights in other people's B&Bs asking zillions of questions and as opposed to the books and web sites I've been pouring over for years).

--Eriks

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This comment (62772) was in reply to the Original Topic on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 4:32pm

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Joey Bloggs

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PS I wanted to add...as I often do - the number of calls we have received from those interested (not necessarily those who have been here and looked, but just telephoned to ask questions) because they have "lost their jobs" and figure they "could do this". It really is insulting to me. When I speak with them I can't help but feel my guard come up a little bit. They say things like "Well since we both lost our jobs and are not young enough to retire we figure this is something we could do...but we just have to sell our house in Florida still..." BLECH. A few have asked about owner financing because they "have no money."

"Would you consider owner financing or leasing?" Uh we have to live some place too!

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This comment (62782) was in reply to comment 62772 on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 5:36pm

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Morticia

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You know there's a certain amount of that going on because they're reading about how people who lose their jobs are starting their own businesses. Add to that the same old same old we get all the time about how hard could this be and you can see why they would think they could just do it.

That they have no money is the scary part. You're saying these folks are thinking they're too old to get new jobs and are going to hang on until they retire but they have no money? What are they going to retire on?

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This comment (83089) was in reply to comment 62782 on Tue, 08/31/2010 - 6:44am

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camberleyhotelh...

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true true. It has always baffled me that when people are out at work all day they buy a big house and think we will sell it and buy a small house when we retire and spend the money surely when you are home all day you want more space? just a thought. Plus this is no game for people not in good health (ie no benefits and long hours hard work) plus having no clue what they are getting into if they think it is easy.

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This comment (83287) was in reply to comment 83089 on Wed, 09/01/2010 - 9:37pm

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gillumhouse

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I will move to a smaller house/apartment to have less to clean or repair and to have it all on one floor - no stairs. That is one big reason us oldsters go smaller. We are also down-sizing - giving things to kids or selling off stuff or just plain throwing it away, VERY hard for those who come from a long line of packrats! I helped close my Mom's house - I need to throw it way before the kids have to. Another reason I plan to sell my B & B totally furnished including my stemware, silver, all except personal stuff like my m-i-l's dolls. They can even have the dolls the Duchess collected if they want them and a few of them are supposed to be worth something - big whoop, I do not care.

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This comment (83096) was in reply to comment 83089 on Tue, 08/31/2010 - 8:56am

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Samster

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I think one of the ideas behind having a smaller place when someone retires is that it's less to take care of and frees you up more for leisure activities and travel. People seem to have larger houses when they have kids at home and perhaps entertain more in their home.

Here in the States, you had to re-invest your money when you sold and bought a new house to avoid paying taxes on any money that you made on the sale. That has been changed somewhat. That's how we ended up buying larger and larger homes over the years as we moved around.

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This comment (83132) was in reply to comment 83096 on Tue, 08/31/2010 - 2:48pm

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camberleyhotelh...

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it is sort of the opposite here as you pay a tax on the percentage of your house over a certain amount so actually it works out cheaper to go smaller.

This comment (83173) was in reply to comment 83132 on Tue, 08/31/2010 - 9:44pm

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Samster

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We paid a lot more for a smaller house when we made a move to California. We didn't have problem re-investing our money then!

This comment (62757) was in reply to the Original Topic on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 1:31pm

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Joey Bloggs

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The innstant inncome I was speaking of was confirmed reservations on the books the day you take over the inn. You have a website and operating inn and can have income right off the bat. The banks would like to see an inn operating and its income for these loans. That was my take on it, vs renovating and still requiring to have money to do that and turn a place into a B&B which ain't cheap. Remember - not all innkeepers are bob the builders who can renovate and do repairs etc, many hire everything out, so for those it is not as cost effective as those who do it all themselves.

This comment (62719) was in reply to the Original Topic on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 12:18am

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gillumhouse

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If I had not already read this thread, my response would have been IF they will be living with you at the inn - fergitit! But they will not so you can say thank you for caring but come see me at my inn.

Start-up vs turnkey is an on-going debate. Internet and Directories have helped even that playing field regarding instant guests. What should really determine the what/where is where do you WANT to live and how many B & Bs are there now? If the answer is none - find out why. It could be that no one thought of it because there are a lot of things to see and do if marketed or it could be simply thre is not enough "traffic" to support a B & B - so look elsewhere. The other factor is how fat is your wallet? If you have a lot of reno costs, you may as well buy turnkey - it will be cheaper. That old house may look wonderful but the cost of adding bathrooms, updating the electricals and plumbing and heating AND the heating bills (if it is not insulated) that come in every winter will bury you.

This comment (62689) was in reply to the Original Topic on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 5:33pm

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Joey Bloggs

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Y'all must be referring to inn-stant inn-come from purchasing an existing inn. I am sad for all those who are currently trying to save old houses and do not even know if the market will support their "start up" B&B's and do not even prequalify the zoning and licensing and end up with their hats in their hands.

No relative "gets" what a B&B is all about, only the innkeeper who has the desire to run an inn. That is what counts anyway - it is your dream. The number of guests we have who she says she would love an Inn and he says he couldn't stand it are huge, and a good reason for them not to run a B&B. It will quickly divide any strong couple.

All the best! Keep us posted on what you decide to do.

This comment (62697) was in reply to comment 62689 on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 6:23pm

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Innkeeper To Go

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Joey Bloggs wrote:

I am sad for all those who are currently trying to save old houses and do not even know if the market will support their "start up" B&B's and do not even prequalify the zoning and licensing and end up with their hats in their hands.

I'm all for saving old houses. I've saved a few myself and don't regret a one.

But right now, with today's glut of just fabulous B&Bs on the market at great prices, it makes no sense to me that someone would do a startup.

There are dream B&Bs out there right now. At bargain basement prices. Income producing. Marketing in place.

Why oh why would anyone who wants to own a B&B not just buy one? Starting from scratch, at this point in time, really seems unwise. IMHO.

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This comment (62752) was in reply to comment 62697 on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 12:41pm

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egoodell

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Innkeeper To Go wrote:

Joey Bloggs wrote:

I'm all for saving old houses. I've saved a few myself and don't regret a one.

But right now, with today's glut of just fabulous B&Bs on the market at great prices, it makes no sense to me that someone would do a startup.

There are dream B&Bs out there right now. At bargain basement prices. Income producing. Marketing in place.

Why oh why would anyone who wants to own a B&B not just buy one? Starting from scratch, at this point in time, really seems unwise. IMHO.

Why would anyone just not buy one? Well, if you have a huge amount of cashola sure, just go buy one. You are assuming all buyers have a huge pot of savings. But have you seen what the banks are requiring for a DOWN for any of these beautiful B&Bs that are for sale?????? We sure didn't have that kind of cash.

And to tell you the truth, although I thought I wanted an old historic home, I'm super glad we built. We won't have to repair anything for YEARS. We built the rooms big and roomy to fit the tubs that all our guests want. We built ourselves a nice loft apartment so that I can have my own kitchen and dining area to have friends over and so we can write off the big kitchen.

And we are doing all this for a fraction of what we would have had to come up with as a down for a comparable inn for sale.

The internet gives a new business almost the same footing as buying an older inn would be. In three years we have worked our way up to number two recommended in our town for B&Bs above some that have been in business for years.

Do not overlook starting new. We were able to do it in stages so we don't have a massive monthly payment, too. I'm with two rooms and the main part done, and hope to add my other three rooms this year.

Riki

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Arcady Vineyard Bed & Breakfast
Arcady Vineyard Wine Tours
www.arcadyvineyard.com
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This comment (62755) was in reply to comment 62752 on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 12:56pm

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Innkeeper To Go

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egoodell wrote:

It was not meant at all as a criticism of those who started new a few years ago. But today's situation is vastly different from the situation that existed when you created your inn from scratch.

Today the B&Bs that are for sale are bargains in every sense of the word. There are many many B&Bs on the market that are seriously undervalued because folks just need to sell.

That does not in any way mean that financing is easy today. It's extremely difficult to get financing for a B&B. But folks starting new will still have big outlays of cash to come up with and the days of getting easy 2nd mortgages to finance those improvements have come and gone.

Today's situation is unlike any we've seen in the B&B industry in the US. Ever.

For folks considering owning a B&B, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that buying an existing property is a much better business decision than starting from scratch.

This comment (62756) was in reply to comment 62755 on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 1:19pm

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egoodell

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Innkeeper To Go wrote:

egoodell wrote:

It was not meant at all as a criticism of those who started new a few years ago. But today's situation is vastly different from the situation that existed when you created your inn from scratch.

Today the B&Bs that are for sale are bargains in every sense of the word. There are many many B&Bs on the market that are seriously undervalued because folks just need to sell.

Today's situation is unlike any we've seen in the B&B industry in the US. Ever.

For folks considering owning a B&B, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that buying an existing property is a much better business decision than starting from scratch.

I'll agree to disagree. It would still today be far easier for us to purchase a property with a personal loan than to purchase a business with a business loan that the banks consider "iffy" at best. Once you have the property then you can get started in stages. They have already changed "good" credit numbers waaaay up now to be considered in good standing.

I don't know how anyone these days can get a loan to purchase a B&B. Even when the prices are discounted down. That's in my mind why there are so many for sale.

RIki

This comment (62766) was in reply to comment 62756 on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 3:28pm

#16 TOP

Morticia

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I think the difference that needs to be pointed out is that you still have a fulltime job. (Not sure if your husband works, too.)

In that regard you COULD get a personal loan to do what you wanted.

Of course, you got to the top in the reviews quickly! You offer an excellent product. You are focused and small enough to handle all the details.

I could have gotten a personal mortgage, too, IF one of us was going to continue to work outside the inn. With no other income, the only type of mortgage we could get was a business loan.

Everyone will have a different situation. So, for owners who will only be doing the B&B and no other outside revenue stream, to start from scratch would seem impossible without that same big pot of money that the downpayment requires. Difference being, if the B&B is up and running, you start pulling income much more quickly.

In our case, we had the big pot of money for the downpayment, but no plans to work outside the inn. We needed it to be making money from day one. We did not want to reinvent the wheel by opening a brand new biz, especially as we had no idea what we were doing!

In spite of the internet being a wonderful resource for a new business to quickly TRY to compete with businesses that are already open, people have got to be searching for where your B&B is in order to find the B&B. Thus, if someone builds in a place no one is looking at, they will also have to build a market, not just a website.

Many ways to make this work and everyone needs to find the one that works best for them.

This comment (62761) was in reply to comment 62756 on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 2:43pm

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swirt

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You raise a good point Riki,

For a B&B with only 2 or 3 rooms, most aren't going to buy it with a business loan. The current advice for small B&B's for sale is to price them and sell them as a "normal" property and thow in the business items to sweeten the deal.

However, if you are talking about an B&B/inn large enough to be purchased with a business loan, it is unlikely you could build it for less than the cost of some of the similarly appointed inns that are currently on the market. The deals on existing inns are similar though to the deals on existing homes there are a lot that are big enough to be converted to a B&B. It is currently much cheaper to buy existing homes than to build new.

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This comment (62765) was in reply to comment 62761 on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 3:26pm

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egoodell

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swirt wrote:

You raise a good point Riki,

Yes, I'm actually talking about purchasing a home and adjusting it to a B&B. We bought property with a cottage and have reconstructed the cottage into a wing and added the main portion of the common area onto it.

There is a top B&B here that took a ranch house and added to it, same thing.

They are now one of the top B&Bs on Tripadvisor and sold about a year and a half ago for 1.25 million.

Try and get a loan for that! I could never even get the down for something like that.

RIki

This comment (62771) was in reply to comment 62765 on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 4:27pm

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Joey Bloggs

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Yes, and those who think they will get a $1.25-2.5 mil B&B without a decent equity down are dreaming.

EVEN if the B&B did prove itself in the numbers - the new owners (dreamers) are leaving their current professions and taking on something new - THEY are not proven - they could take a very profitable B&B and run it into the ground quickly.

The bank will requires its $$ to cover the loan. Just like any mortgage as well - it cannot be more than a certain percent of your income, they need to ensure you can make the payments and survive. For most of these there would need to be another partner in the business who has a regular paycheck coming in. But again - changing careers and moving states makes you a RISK to a bank.

I concur on all sides of this conversation - if you have a pocket full of cash then the world is your oyster, as the saying goes. If not, then it will be tough to get financing, and the only way to obtain this dream is one 2 x 4 at a time.

This comment (62699) was in reply to comment 62697 on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 6:48pm

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wendydk

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Innkeeper To Go wrote:

There are dream B&Bs out there right now. At bargain basement prices. Income producing. Marketing in place. Why oh why would anyone who wants to own a B&B not just buy one?

I agree...if ever there was the perfect time to go for it, now is that time. The simple answer why even the bargain Inns aren't selling? Financing. As one with an Inn for sale, I speak from our own experiences with extremely interested parties that simply cannot get the deal financed. One of the drawbacks of being small, I guess.

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This comment (62665) was in reply to the Original Topic on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 3:04pm

#21 TOP

swirt

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If family is unsupportive, that is one thing ... if significant other is unsupportive or uncommitted, that can be a problem. It can be a big load on both people involved, even if significant other isn't supposed to be involved.

And welcome to Innspiring.com nsanko

This comment (62661) was in reply to the Original Topic on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 2:48pm

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seashanty

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yes, if i had the funds, i'd be buying one of the inns that fellow inn-mates are offering.

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This comment (62657) was in reply to the Original Topic on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 2:26pm

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seashanty

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welcome!

you can be a successful b&b/inn owner - innkeeper ... but i am going to qualify that and suggest that you need deep pockets. i was amazed at the costs involved but that was for starting up a place including the purchase of the most basic of furnishings. we didn't even having a working oven, a dishwasher, a frying pan or a dish. turnkey is better, even if you end up replacing things, at least you start out with what you need to function. the overhead was very high ... every toilet, every sink, every window, every door, every piece of furniture gets a lot of use and has to be kept in top shape. you also need a reserve account for when times are slow.

i love innkeeping and hope you can do it.

This comment (62660) was in reply to comment 62657 on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 2:35pm

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Innkeeper To Go

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seashanty wrote:

turnkey is better, even if you end up replacing things, at least you start out with what you need to function. the overhead was very high ... every toilet, every sink, every window, every door, every piece of furniture gets a lot of use and has to be kept in top shape.

I agree. Turnkey is way less expensive in the long run. And allows you to save a lot of that first-year-energy for marketing and finetuning the inn to your own personality, rather than spending all that time on permits, renovations, and every little thing you'll need.

Several innmates on this site have some pretty fabulous inns up for grabs, in fact and some that are available at some very good prices.

Every innkeeper wants his/her inn to reflect his/her personality. But there's no need to reinvent the wheel while doing that.

Take seashanty's advice and buy an existing inn. You'll be up and running right away.

This comment (62651) was in reply to the Original Topic on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 1:43pm

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wendydk

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Starting a B&B is not the riskiest venture you could undertake. It's a home business, which means that you won't have mortgage/rent and utilities on two different places. With the strength of the internet, you can be on a level playing field with the right website, SEO and directory listings nearly from the start.

When we found this house as a start-up, we had friends and family members telling us that the location was wrong, there was nothing around it to make it popular. Booya...were they wrong, and they now admit it.

Go for it...there is nothing more exciting for me than seeing an aspiring innkeeper take the leap.

This comment (62632) was in reply to the Original Topic on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 8:53am

#26 TOP

egoodell

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I would say forget support from you family. It could be that they are the kind that would only consider working for a big company and that to go out and start your own business would not be a "secure" thing to do. Get your support elsewhere - take one of those classes where you train in a large B&B and as part of the training they have you manage it for a weekend. When you are finished they give you the support you need by showing you your strengths and where you may need to improve. That will make you feel like you're getting on your way.

You're a lawyer which is excellent! That's a profession that can earn you extra money on the side as you start your B&B! You could do a select type of legal business along with your B&B which would really be wonderful as you won't have to stress over booking every room every weekend and will make you more relaxed in dealing with your guests. Is there a type of law that you do find enjoyable, but is not a big earner? That cold be a side money maker!

We have this kind of setup in that we also run the wine tours. If the B&B is not booking, no worries, the wine tours are booking.

I think you're in an ideal situation! Go to it! Right now start developing an idea of light legal work you could do out of the inn on the side. You may not have to do it for long, or you might enjoy dabbling in legal work on the side - maybe offering affordable light legal work for regular folk which may make law more fun for you!

Heck, maybe you could combine the two in a package! Come and stay at the Legal Eagle B&B ! Relax while we set up your (put the legal info in here) for you and explain it to you in a private and relaxing environment. Take time to plan your (put the legal stuff in here) instead of in a rush in between business appointments.

We were uncomfortable when my dad set me down to explain his trust. Book the whole family in the B&B while you assist the parents in finalizing their wishes and explain to the family while they enjoy a wonderful time together! They say a niche is multi-generational travel is on the rise..You might have a niche...

Sorry, just got back from the conference and I'm on a roll...RIki

This comment (62647) was in reply to comment 62632 on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 11:53am

#27 TOP

nsanko

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Yes, great idea about continuing to do some legal work. I could definitely do this. I love your suggestion for B&B name! And, I couldn't agree with Morticia more, that of course it is ridiculous that a 50 year old is still so beholden to her parents. It's complicated, but I'm actually a successful and happy person as I turn 50. But now I have this new passion that I believe in.

This comment (62641) was in reply to comment 62632 on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 10:36am

#28 TOP

Morticia

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Wow! Good ideas! Sounds like the conference was a real positive experience for you.

I mentioned this topic to Gomez and he reminded me that all of our siblings had that blank stare and, 'Reeeally,' sort of take on this when we mentioned it. They still don't get it and most of them have never been here, but as long as we're not calling them to borrow money, they're ok with whatever we do.

This comment (62610) was in reply to the Original Topic on Tue, 01/12/2010 - 6:56pm

#29 TOP

nsanko

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Thanks for your comments Morticia. I have never made a bad financial decision in my life. I am currently a lawyer and have never felt passionate about my work. I have indeed not pursued certain dreams, because they didn't fit in with my family's vision. They will not be living with me, and I do not need their financial help. You are right--they are just generally concerned and want me to be happy. I can only hope that when they see how cautiously and sensibly I enter this new phase of my life (I turn 50 next month), they will rally behind me.

This comment (62613) was in reply to comment 62610 on Tue, 01/12/2010 - 7:32pm

#30 TOP

Morticia

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OK, let me backpedal. I thought you were in your 20's.

Repeat after me: A 50 year old woman does need her parents' permission/acceptance/backing to do anything.

Now, go forth and learn how to run a B&B!

(BTW, my mother laughed hysterically when I told her what I was about to do. I had never made a bed in my life and I like to sleep until 9-10 AM. But she never questioned me. She gave up on that a looooong time ago!)

This comment (62611) was in reply to comment 62610 on Tue, 01/12/2010 - 7:03pm

#31 TOP

Innkeeper To Go

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nsanko wrote:

I can only hope that when they see how cautiously and sensibly I enter this new phase of my life (I turn 50 next month), they will rally behind me.

That's all any of us can hope for, isn't it?

Best of luck to you. Seems like you're doing your homework and know what you're doing.

They'll figure that out, too. Eventually.

This comment (62578) was in reply to the Original Topic on Tue, 01/12/2010 - 2:19pm

#32 TOP

Morticia

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Excellent that you are doing your homework! Good for you!

It is always a good idea to have the support of the people who will be living under the roof of the B&B. Unless parents, siblings and others are coming along, I would take their comments as caring about you, but not necessarily germane. If they will be the kind of family who says, 'I told you so,' should things not work out and never let you forget your mistake, you should probably stop telling them your dreams.

If you will be asking them for seed money to get started, what are their concerns? Have you had lots of dreams you never followed thru on in the past? Do you have a poor track record with money? Are there any real reasons for your family to pooh-pooh your dreams? If so, you'll need to work on that aspect of your personality first before you can expect them to be behind you 100%.

Sometimes family just worries. If you think their worries have no basis, scale back talking about your plans to them. If there is a basis, work on those problems as this work will stand you in good stead when you're an innkeeper. ie- learning to take constructive criticism to make yourself & your inn better.

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