Increase Repeat Visitors
Posted on: Sat, 01/23/2010 - 12:07pm
Original Topic
OfflineI had been reading a number of articles about the easiest way to increase business for the least effort was repeat customers. We have so many people who stay, who tell us they want to come back but never do. We have lots of contact names, email addresses, birthdays, etc, but never had used these properly.
After some reviews of various tools we could use to manage our guest contact list and emailing we finally settled on www, keepintouchmail,com It is a service that seems focussed on the Inn, guest house and B&B market and runs on the well established EchoMail system, around since 1994. My fear in using email marketing was losing my guests contact list to a third party, ending up like a spammer or breaking the complex and ever changing email laws.
These guys do email marketing management for some huge companies, like Hilton, and are constantly on top of the regulations. The bit I love most is the fact I can send really customised emails so easily to groups of guests on our latest packages and offers and it also lets me set up an automatic birthday email based on my guest contact data.
They handle all replies, keep my list up to date, in case someone's email is dead and I know who received the mails, who read them and who clicked through to our website! All really useful feedback.
We are in the early days of using this type of marketing but, I can really see the results already with more inquiries. Fingers crossed business keeps growing!
Good luck to all of you!
[Message from swirt, please do not report this as spam (which it is) continue reading for the tar and feathering. Links within this submission have been broken intentionally by me]
Comments
I hate it when marketers pretend to be innkeepers. Again, me and the hate lying thing. It is so low, they can come on here and just tell us what they are selling and we MIGHT actually look into it. But no clicking for fake innkeepers, sorry.
Next will be the reply we are not fake, how dare you! yada yada yada it is like clock work every week or so on this forum.
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"There are 3 types of players in this world: those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, & those who wonder what happens." (sorta Lasorda)
But why is his post still up? I've flagged it. I'm sure others have, too. How can we get this spam to drop off more quickly?
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“What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.” Pericles
I flagged it too.
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Happy in my Hills
Because there is only one person who can remove the post. And he hasn't done so yet. (OK, so THAT is obvious, sorry.)
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Spare me the perky.
Sorry he's a little slow on the uptake....but now I want to have a little fun.
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Inngenious Bed and Breakfast Website Design Advice
Thanks Bertie.
How do you contact them when they list a phone number of
Seems a little fishy. [edited to clarify that the website now has an actual phone number on it, but it did not at the time of the original posting - swirt 2/4/10]
Digging deeper
A tech company that is supposed to be aware of latest email laws (?) but asking for credit card payment with ccv number on an insecure page and sending the form data through an insecure conneciton ... that can't be good.
http://echosmb1.echomail.com/echomail-login/PaidRegistration.do
Hmmm and a site verified by Godaddy badge that is actually the secure reference for a completely differernt site. ...that can't be good.
Hmmm they say they've been doing this for 26 years for some big companies, yet this site has only been registered since Jan 19 (5 days ago) ... how lucky you were to find this new resource so soon after it was created.... how on earth did you find it? It is not in Google or Bing yet and only one page in yahoo.
What reviews did you find.... I can't find a mention of it anywhere...the only place it shows up in a search is this page . It would be a shame if people looking for reviews were to find this page
Interesting too that you happen to be in Cambridge MA ... you can probably go shake hands with the person that owns keepintouchmail and echomail.
As per the terms of use for this site, vendors are reminded to operate in the light, or risk feathers and tar. 
Tee hee hee, I think you just made all of our days Swirt! You should consider running for office
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What you call love was invented by guys like me to sell nylons.
Fun is good.
Can you break the links to his site, though, so we at least don't send him any traffic? You may remember that not everybody reads...(just a little innkeeper humor).
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Jeanne
Hmmm where is that monkey wrench, I know it's around here someplace ...
I bow to the Grand Poobah! Yeesch, these guys are nervy, aren't they? arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh........
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We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done. ~ Longfellow
Probably not nervy... probably some little startup company that may even have a good product, but thought they's do a little Guerilla marketing but weren't really prepared for that, so fell into Gorilla marketing instead
I'm sure someone at the company thought it was a good idea at the time.
Guerilla, gorilla...har har. Good one.
I've received several requests from members for this to be removed as ordinary spam. I have not removed it but wanted to clarify why for some of the newer members who haven't heard my reasoning on this before.
Ordinary off-topic spam (mortgage lenders, portapotties, viagra sales...) does get removed and the person banned very rapidly thanks to the all the regular members here who flag it, often within minutes of the links being dropped.
Special thanks to all the regulars!
On topic spam like this (reservation systems, mailing systems, guest trackers...) I tend to like to leave on here complete with our commentary because then it exists for others to find when they get contacted by a company and then go looking for it. It will probably only be a month or less before this particular company does a mass emailing to innkeepers and those innkeepers may do a search to see what people are saying ... I'd rather have them find what "we" are saying than only find what the company is saying.
If I delete this thread, it is as though it never happened, so people miss out on the chance to be any wiser about it. (plus I miss out on the chance to have a little fun). I left BertieQ's account open so she could return and justify herself if needed. I will leave it open a little longer.
Don't get me wrong, I think the product might be interesting, and useful. I just object to the marketing approach and the mis-information (speaks to the character of the company).
Well, in that case...I find that Constant Contact works for me. They have templates I can use that vary by season and promotion, or I can create my own (for additional $$). I can add a link on my website and blog for guests to sign up to receive the emailing. CC has a good delivery rate and they are very proactive on reducing spam so their emails get thru. (Of course that's not something I can verify, maybe the people who don't open the email never got it.)
The reason I decided to pay for emailing is that my inn email addy has been blocked as spam by many, many email service providers. Because this uses the CC seal of approval, my emails get thru.
I do not get a lot of feedback but when I do it's always been, 'Thanks, we appreciate your keeping in touch with us and it reminds us of our great vacation.' These guests may never come back, but they may mention the email to friends. (There is a 'forward email' link but it's never been used. That said, I never use those either because I know they're trackable.)
There is a nice reporting system that allows me to see what 'pitches' have received the most attention, how many recipients open the email and how many opens are on any given day.
I can set up groups so summer visitors can get a special email reminding them we're still here in the winter and vice versa. Guests who only come for certain reasons can be reminded that there is an event coming up where they usually visit that they might not want to miss.
Now, after my gripe the other day about being inundated with emails about conferences, I limit my emails to one/month. If something big comes up, I'll email again but make it very short and only point out the big thing I want to talk about, nothing else.
Swirt mentioned before that sending the email on a cloudy day might get more opens than an email sent on a sunny day. But my emails are so far flung that I just pick a day of the week and figure that someone enjoying a sunny day may not delete the email, but may save it for a rainy day.
Don't do Tuesdays... at least, all of the innkeeper and CVB "newsletters" all come on Tuesdays, and maybe some other stuff, too. I get lots of calls on Tuesdays, too, as people get past Monday and start thinking about that booking they need to make. Hmm... then again, maybe Tuesday is the best day of all!
=)
Kk.
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College House Bed and Breakfast, Ashland, OH
Survey sez...In the past, Tuesday was the number one day that my website was visited. So, that was the day I sent the email. Right at lunchtime. For those who eat at their desk. And dream about vacation. I used to run a special promo on Tuesdays also. A page went up on the website on Tuesday with a special for the coming weekend. You had to book while the page was up. (9 AM to 9 PM) Instead of doing that now, I can Tweet a special, like JetBlue does.
I think if people are going to read your newsletter, they will save it for another day rather than delete it. This, of course, is based on me alone and what I do. If I'm too busy, I'll wait until another day. UNLESS, the subject line is REALLY good.
What I notice is that the email is opened several times. Maybe the first time to see how long it is! And then to really read it and then again to review it for info the guest wants to file away.
It's clear this forum is controlled by a few.
It's appaling that Morticia is using this forum to promote Costant Contact while destroying a fledgling new business, keepintouchmail.com.
First, keepintouchmail.com is built on the echomail technology which has been around since 1994.
Second, who said that google yahoo and bing control the future of new businesses. Just because a business is not listed there does that mean they don't exist?
Third, who are the three of you on this site controlling the future of American business? Have any of you every built a company?!
Fourth, do you think your behavior is fair and just to the whole hospitality community to only promote one e-mail marketing supplier?
Fifth, given internet forums are supposed to be fair and transparent, why is Morticia so rappidly promoting Costant Contact? What is her business relationship with them? Has she ever used both of these products?
I find the three of you behavior appaling and frankly facist to promote one sigle vendor. I'm asure that if another vendor like bnbfastmail.com tried to promote itself through that forum you also destroy them as you did with keepintouchmail.
Clearly new suppliers have no opportunity with the three of you destroying reputations in seconds!
I encourage all bnbowners who are interested in email marketing to make their own judgements by testing all the tools mentioned in this forum!
I encourage all bnbowners who are interested in email marketing to make their own judgements by testing all the tools mentioned in this forum!
It's clear this forum is controlled by a few. Wrong. You haven't read any other threads but this one so you wouldn't really know that would you.
It's appaling that Morticia is using this forum to promote Costant Contact while destroying a fledgling new business, keepintouchmail.com. Fledgling business? I thought BertieQ said it had been around for years.
First, keepintouchmail.com is built on the echomail technology which has been around since 1994. Terrif. Why not flog that company?
Second, who said that google yahoo and bing control the future of new businesses. Just because a business is not listed there does that mean they don't exist? Google, Yahoo & Bing say so. Try to have a website-based business they don't recognize.
Third, who are the three of you on this site controlling the future of American business? Have any of you every built a company?! Yes, we have all built companies. Which one did you build?
Fourth, do you think your behavior is fair and just to the whole hospitality community to only promote one e-mail marketing supplier? I believe I said I was putting the company I use out there. Everyone else is welcome to do the same.
Fifth, given internet forums are supposed to be fair and transparent, why is Morticia so rappidly promoting Costant Contact? What is her business relationship with them? Has she ever used both of these products?Who says internet forums are fair and transparent? Morticia has promoted CC before because she uses them and they work. So if BertieQ and you like your email program, use it. Don't complain because Morticia likes someone else's.
I find the three of you behavior appaling and frankly facist to promote one sigle vendor. I'm asure that if another vendor like bnbfastmail.com tried to promote itself through that forum you also destroy them as you did with keepintouchmail. Oh goody, 'fascist'. Name-calling isn't allowed here, you need to read the terms below.
Clearly new suppliers have no opportunity with the three of you destroying reputations in seconds! This little group destroyed a business in seconds? One that has been in business since 1994? We tried bringing down TripAdvisor but had no luck and they haven't been in business all that long.
I encourage all bnbowners who are interested in email marketing to make their own judgements by testing all the tools mentioned in this forum! And we all agree.
If you read all of the comments and followed the logic, you will realize that we don't trash new businesses who are honest. Present a product by saying you are a happy user of a product that is 15 years old by flogging a website that went up a month ago and you'll get called on it. BertieQ signed on to flog the company by using their script. Pretty much word for word off their homepage. Why not say what his real experince was in his own words? If you use a product you can do that.
If anyone wants to offer their opinions on a product, they're welcome to do so. But they should use their own words and not the company's press release. Or they should state they are a member of the company and play by the rules listed below.
And if you read the comments you'll see that the product info was left so people COULD check the veracity of the product. If this group really didn't want the product to show up here, it would have been gone immediately as numerous people flagged it immediately as spam.
But it's still here, isn't it?
What we do here is to try to protect innkeepers from being spammed by showing them how to look at a product and determine if it's just another bottomless pit into which they are expected to drop their money.
So let's hope my post stays up for awhile so people can see your questions have been answered.
Did we try that? If we have that kind of power, let's try harder!
I've been too busy to post a lot lately, but count me, too! If there's one thing that can be said about this forum, it's clean, it's honest, and it doesn't put up with BS. OK, that's three... so what? Don't be calling any of us names, especially not a member who is as well respected (nigh revered) as Morticia!
=)
Kk.
It is only three so far - some of us have been busy with other persuits. You prove the weakness of your argument and the weakness of your premise but going defensive and name calling. IF the product is so good, one would be much better off citing the features and giving a reason why, other than childish "he stuck his tongue out at me" type answer.
We are wise enough here to do research before stepping into the manure pile. One can check things out without going someplace and leavig cookies behind.
So the count is now 4.
How dare you slam someone who is simply giving a subjective opinion.
This is NOT promotion it is a veteran, successful innkeeper telling us what she uses and why.
the difference is that 'morticia' is an innkeeper ... who happens to use constant contact
bertieq is not an innkeeper - but someone pretending to be a business person who uses keep in touch - and who used that pretence in order to promote it.
a person who joins this forum and says ... 'this is my business, i hope you will try it' and is up front about it ... is directed to the appropriate place to post.
by the way freemarket, are you also bertieq? swirt will know.
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' not all those who wander are lost ... ' jrr tolkien
On their website and in their paid google ads (the only places they appear online that I could find), this company claims to have been in business since 1994.
WHOIS says differently:
**************************************************
Registrant:
MIT Entrepreneurship Center
1 Amherst St
E40-196
Cambridge, Massachusetts 02142
Administrative Contact: Pacheco, Jose
Domain Name: KEEPINTOUCHMAIL.COM
Created on: 19-Jan-10
Expires on: 19-Jan-11
*************************************************
They have a little something to learn about honesty and integrity in business
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The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue. ~Author Unknown
changed my post so i don't help promote
such fun on a cold, February night!
i think they are saying the technology has been around ... but not keep in touch mail ... and interactive dot com has been around a while. the two are affiliates. nothing wrong with that.
The exact wording on their website is "Keep In Touch Mail is a total E-Mail Marketing solution for all your two-way email communication - Inbound and Outbound. It will handle everything saving you time and money and that's what we have been doing since 1994."
Their many google ads read :"Keepintouchmail.com Trusted Email Marketing for the Hospitality Sector. Since 1994".
**********************************************************
That it NOT saying that the technology has been around, but that they themselves have been around since 1994. Not cool and not honest either.
ah ... good sleuthing little blue.
changed my post so i don't help promote.
Um, Freemarket Dude? Whoa.
You come onto our forum and trash our members? That is almost as rude as pretending to be an innkeeper to scam us.
Here's the thing. There are a lot of different innkeepers from all over the place who come here. None of them controls anything.
We are all thankful for all of them, even those we don't always agree with. Morticia happens to be among the most sensible here so don't count on any knives coming out to help you.
You, on the other hand, are not even an innkeeper from all appearances.
If you hoped to garner any innkeeper support here, guess what? You blew it.
You blew it here before you insulted Morticia. You blew it here by pretending to be something that you're not.
But trashing your competition and trashing one of us?
Just not cool. It's really time for you to take your ball and go home.
Whatever you hoped to gain here is simply not going to happen.
Good responses everyone. So I'll just leave it as, FreeMarket has gotten himself banned for namecalling and generally being over the top in response to what was a fair assessment of just poorly thought out and executed spam. Who comes on a B&B forum and asks if any of us have ever started a business??
Were he and BertieQ one and the same?
=)
Kk.
Same location, slightly different ip address.
Swirt, is it possible to block his IP address?
That's been done.
'Clearly new suppliers have no opportunity with the three of you destroying reputations in seconds! This little group destroyed a business in seconds? One that has been in business since 1994? We tried bringing down TripAdvisor but had no luck and they haven't been in business all that long.'
what a great answer
Oh please someone tell this individual to go take a hike. They obviously have no clue that we have built our businesses carefully and research anything we use. This guy is the typical one who thinks all he has to do is put something out on the web, no matter how, no matter what the quality and somewhere within the dumb masses it will sell.
Riki
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Riki Goodell
Arcady Vineyard Bed & Breakfast
Arcady Vineyard Wine Tours
www.arcadyvineyard.com
Come! Let us show you the beautiful Monticello Appellation!
Umm guys, please don't shoot me, wrote a post on the other one about blogging ideas and didn't realize I was supposed to clarify that I was technically a (gasp) vendor. I wasn't on here to promote only to follow my clickthroughs from my blog post.
It was suggested by Morticia that I scan the topics for some other blogging ideas that might help innkeepers and happened to click through to this one. OOps.
If I could put my two cents in while I am here and if I am violating anything please let me know ASAP and I will bow to the innkeeping gods.
When I first was approached about doing email marketing for some of the inns I worked with several years ago, I ended up evaulating more then 25 different services. The top two that came out were constant contact and vertical response. Both offer templates which are extremely easy for an innkeeper to set up and manage themselves. Disclosure: many of the innkeepers I work with do their own email marketing and are happy with the two services and no I don't get referal fees or any of that baloney for promoting them.
The major difference between the two is constant contact is a monthly fee and vertical response offers the option of a regular fee or a pay as you go version, which if you are just starting out or have an irregular emailing schedule works well. I prefer VR myself only because CC has a tendancy to boot me out of the system if you are imputing a lot of visual graphics. Apparently this is not a common problem so don't let it sway you yay or nay.
The subject of day mailing is a tough one. I usually mail on the dreaded Tuesdays midday, not first thing in the morning because mail boxes are cluttered. But Wednesdays work well and Thursdays for last minute specials have some great open rates. I've experimented with this as well to try to find that "optimal" mailing time but it seems to really depend on your clientale. Inns with a great percentage of retirees on their mailing lists or lots of overseas addresses seem to get better opens when mailed on the weekends for instance.
I think the only way a inn will find that perfect "niche" for themselves is to experiment. I do have one thing I have found to definitely be a factor though, if you mail to your list more often then every 3 weeks you will have a higher number of unsubscribes.
If you do decide to promote yourself, say so in the post. Swirt does this when someone asks where they can find something pertinent to running a B&B and he wrote the article. ("Full disclosure here, I wrote the article," is usually what he says.)
The problem arose here in this thread because the people posting had a vested interest in the product and didn't say so right up front. And it has come up in the past where someone was constantly linking to articles she 'wrote' that were helpful but she was stealing the info from someone else and not giving credit. That sort of stuff is bad around here. We like to keep things honest.
Did you blog about the research? Posting a link to that would be fine. Actually, if you want to do a 'Hi, I'm Heather' sort of thread and tell who you are and what you do, you could put a link in there to your info.
In re CC...do you use Firefox as your browser? If so, use IE for CC as they have problems with FF as I found out the other day. (And if all those acronyms don't send you running...)
Another good and inexpensive e-mail service is Your Mailing List Provider. There are templets you can use or make your own. It's cheapers than the others mentioned and easy to use with a wysiwyg editor.
I'm assuming the company name actually is "Your Mailing List Provider"? Sorry the coffee hasn't kicked in yet this morning. I have a little Abott and Costello skit playing out in my head
Yup......y m l p dot com
You can actually have a free basic account with them if you don't have more than 1,000 e-mail addresses. You don't get all the perks though. I have the "professional" account which is only $3.75 per month. I've used it for about 4 years. With this level I can't see which newsletters have been opened though. The next level up is only $5.00 a month. It's a bargain!
LOL have I tarred and feathered that many spammers that you all are afraid to post links?
www.yourmailinglistprovider.com
Active (trusted) members are welcome and enouraged to post links and recommend anything they think is worthwhile for other innkeepers.
I would suggest for those with facebook fan pages as well, its free to use, Nutshellmail. http://nutshellmail.com/facebook/pages/