This product is not yet available but plans to release in September 2008?
Is Google Checkout as a method of payment approved for lodging payments? Or is it like Paypal where you take risks using it for lodging?
GuestList - bookings and guest management for innkeepers
Visit the website>>> GuestList
GuestList includes an online availability calendar (for you and your guests), management of guests, bookings and payment, plus the facility to take credit card payments from your guests.
submitted by: benjeffery
Comment wisely on this resource if you must.
(Companies can be touchy about their reputations, don't go getting yourself sued)
This product is not yet available but plans to release in September 2008?
Is Google Checkout as a method of payment approved for lodging payments? Or is it like Paypal where you take risks using it for lodging?
Just found this thread.
What risks are there in accepting paypal? I've only ever used it for sending money to a vendor.
Paypal is funny. If they decide that your account is being misused (chargeback complaints) they have the right to shut down you account and seize the assets that you might have had stored in paypal.
The real issue related to B&B's is that it is not a lodging merchant transaction. You don't get even the minimal protection against chargebacks that a true merchant account allows. You charge a deposit, person never shows and person tells paypal they want their money back because no services were rendered and no goods were shipped.. zip...the money is returned. Many B&B's are running without this protection because their own merchant account is set up as retail instead of lodging.
What Swirt says is true, so it has draw backs. When I opened with 1 suite, I had a chance to take credit cards with paypal and I operated that way for 2 years until I opened another suite. I never had a problem with it but never had anyone say they didn't stay with me either. I charged the whole stay up front after making sure the person really was intending to come. Most had tickets already bought, so they had plans to come to my town.
I gave 2 refunds. One was a business person that left a day early. The other was a different problem and I just made a refund.
I think it is good for the person who only has 1 or 2 rooms and might have a problem using a regular merchant account. Then don't worry about the drawbacks. Just charge and if there is a problem, refund. If you only have 1 or 2 rooms, you aren't making a living at it, so you can afford to be lenient.
re Paypal - -I never had a problem with it but never had anyone say they didn't stay with me either.
Okay, not going to state the obv, but how do you know this didn't happen? They are not going to call you and say "We are not going to stay with you, so there. Bye"
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
I think she means she's never had anyone reserve, pay the deposit, cancel and then claim the refund through paypal. From other posts, it sounds like paypal would just grant the refund based on the guests statement that he didn't actually stay there.
I think it is good for the person who only has 1 or 2 rooms and might have a problem using a regular merchant account. Then don't worry about the drawbacks. Just charge and if there is a problem, refund. If you only have 1 or 2 rooms, you aren't making a living at it, so you can afford to be lenient.
I think if you 1 or 2 rooms paypal is a good way to go. As a way to not have a high overhead for accepting cc cards. Otherwise you have to BUY the machine, pay the monthly fee, plus each card you enter that fee as well.
But if you had a really busy 2 rooms or more then it would be prudent to get on board with the merchant machine. BUT there are those inns who accept cash or checks still.
I have not seen cash here for a year or so, and only once. Credit cards are what everyone uses, like discussed, they get points/miles.
There is actually quite a lot of misinformation out there about credit card processing. Almost none of the PMS vendors use an approved lodging gateway. RezOvation does, Rezstream does, I believe the new webervations even does - but not many/any others that I am aware of.
Of course no one tells you that you are using a retail account with no lodging approval that could be yanked at any time... and with credit card security becoming more and more a concern, we are starting to see this happen already.
Most properties unknowingly get signed-up like a convenience store that sells an actual retail good - not a service - and this is the hang-up. It is also why paypal doesn't like this - because paypal, like all fully compliant cc processing services - is set up for the exchange of a physical good, not a service. A service is inherintly more prone to fraud and thus the cc companies are more nervous about them.
Hi,
The comments on this page have gone off on a bit of a tangent since I added it, but since then we have decided not to provide credit card sales for your guests in the short term (this is something we will do later). However, you can still use it to manage everything to do with your B&B, and as of today (21st May 09) we're offering the first 100 customers to sign up a completely free account.
No catches, no billing details, these first accounts will be free forever because we're hoping our first 'magic 100' will like GuestList so much they'll tell all their friends and help us grow by word of mouth. Get straight to the (very quick) sign-up form here and you could be adding bookings in minutes:
http://www.guestlisthq.com/manage/signup.html
Or go to our main site:
I removed the most recent resource as we don't need/want the multiple listings of this product in our resource section.
I'm a bit confused by your site. I go to look at the available packages and it tells me to pick one but it only describes the free account, not the different packages. What are the different packages?
I went to see the tour of features, but the screen caps were too small to tell me much. Is there a demo up an running some place or an example you can give of a B&B actually using this?
Other than the get a free account for the first 100 takers, the price teaser on your site says "costs from just £6 a month." What does this actually mean for a 5 room B&B or 10 room B&B?
Security is a big issue with guest data. In your FAQ's it mentions "We take significant measures to protect our website and your information," but if I go to login I am using a form that is not secure (http) and sends data to an insecure page as clear text. So if the entry point is not secure, how can anything else be secure? (like having expensive bars on your windows, but only a screen door on your main entrance)
Hi,
No problem about removing the other resource listing, I wasn't sure if it would matter as there were two sections. Also, I couldn't seem to change my original description - is that possible?
Thanks for your feedback about the site, we have changed the content a bit recently and there were a few bits of content that contradicted each other as a result, and I have now corrected these.
Currently the service is completely free (for our first 100 signups) so we haven't yet defined what the packages/prices will eventually be - the £6 was wrong and I've removed this. We're going to talk to customers and carry out research before confirming these, but we will probably have different packages/prices depending on the number of rooms.
If you want to demo the service, you can sign up instantly (and for free) now:
http://www.guestlisthq.com/manage/signup.html
I'll also link to some bigger screenshots from the features page, but the idea was that it's so easy to sign up that a demo isn't necessary.
As far as security goes, although we don't currently have an SSL certificate (we may add one later), that doesn't make the site inherently insecure. There are many online applications that also don't secure the login in the way that you suggest, and it would still be difficult for anyone to hack into the system. They would basically have to be eavesdropping the connection. Another factor of security is the likelihood of us being a target, which is negligible. While we will be further developing the security features of the website in the future, we don't feel that there is a vulnerability at the moment.
Thanks for your comments, and I hope you'll have a chance to try GuestList yourself and let us know what you think.
Ben
And just to clarify, when we do start charging it will be based on a monthly subscription.
Another factor of security is the likelihood of us being a target, which is negligible. While we will be further developing the security features of the website in the future, we don't feel that there is a vulnerability at the moment.
ha ha ha that is the funniest thing I have heard all week. I assume you have been on the internet before? We are all targets. Of course security is an issue and always will be, if there ever was a good job prospect it would be security. Those losers do all they can to hack, disrupt, disable and destroy anything and everything. I hope you get some testers who can give you/us valuable feedback. Most on this forum have a system in place and will not try another just for the sake of it, even if it is free to the first 100 users.
Another factor of security is the likelihood of us being a target, which is negligible. While we will be further developing the security features of the website in the future, we don't feel that there is a vulnerability at the moment.
ha ha ha that is the funniest thing I have heard all week. I assume you have been on the internet before? We are all targets. Of course security is an issue and always will be, if there ever was a good job prospect it would be security. Those losers do all they can to hack, disrupt, disable and destroy anything and everything. I hope you get some testers who can give you/us valuable feedback. Most on this forum have a system in place and will not try another just for the sake of it, even if it is free to the first 100 users.
And why would we need to go to the UK to get one??
Hi "Joe",
When I said we don't feel there is a vulnerability, I was not saying that because we're not well known we don't think there is any risk. That was a general summary to my post, stating that we feel our system is secure. Obviously security is an ongoing issue which we take seriously and will continue to address. I certainly wouldn't ever suggest that it's not an issue.
My more specific point about our profile was that clearly some organisations are going to be more at risk than others - Microsoft for example as opposed to us. I wasn't suggesting that meant we didn't need to consider security, just that this is one factor - of many others.
Our priority in developing GuestList has always been involvement with our users - whether new or existing - in helping us to build the system they need. I do believe our system is significantly easier to use than many others on the market, which is why I thought it would be of interest to some people on this site.
Ben
Hi "Joe",
When I said we don't feel there is a vulnerability, I was not saying that because we're not well known we don't think there is any risk. That was a general summary to my post, stating that we feel our system is secure. Obviously security is an ongoing issue which we take seriously and will continue to address. I certainly wouldn't ever suggest that it's not an issue.
My more specific point about our profile was that clearly some organisations are going to be more at risk than others - Microsoft for example as opposed to us. I wasn't suggesting that meant we didn't need to consider security, just that this is one factor - of many others.
Our priority in developing GuestList has always been involvement with our users - whether new or existing - in helping us to build the system they need. I do believe our system is significantly easier to use than many others on the market, which is why I thought it would be of interest to some people on this site.
Ben
Hi "Ben"
The reason I highlighted that as another web based reservation system, which many of us here use daily and have for years, was acquired by a larger bed and breakfast company and there has been ongoing debate about security on this forum. If you look back you can read pages and pages worth - it is called Webervations, there honestly were pages and pages of comment and contact with the new owners of this reservation program. Those in charge of this company frequent this forum, from the I.T. side of it especially and utlilize the feedback on the security issues brought up here. I think you will find it difficult to enlist the US Innkeepers to your program. We do have overseas, Canada and as well on this forum, they might give you a try.
Hi Joe (I only put your name in speech marks because I assumed it was a pseudonym!),
Thanks for that, and it's good to know there is a resource here for that kind of feedback and communication. I'm not sure why you think the US market isn't suitable for us, as we feel that GuestList offers an easier experience for anyone, whatever their location. As it happens, GuestList is hosted in the US.
I wish you the best of luck with whatever system you use, and I'm confident that our usability will win us customers in every market.
Ben
As far as security goes, although we don't currently have an SSL certificate (we may add one later), that doesn't make the site inherently insecure. There are many online applications that also don't secure the login in the way that you suggest, and it would still be difficult for anyone to hack into the system. They would basically have to be eavesdropping the connection. Another factor of security is the likelihood of us being a target, which is negligible. While we will be further developing the security features of the website in the future, we don't feel that there is a vulnerability at the moment.
This is a pretty cavalier attitude. You want innkeepers to choose your product and in so doing, put their guests' data at risk because you think "the likelihood of us being a target is small."
Saying that there are others doing it insecurely is a cop-out. If you want YOUR product to be taken seriously, then YOU have to take the issues seriously and not just point to other poorly executed implementations as an example.
And yes, passing login info in clear text over http does make it inherently insecure. That's the definition of clear text over http.
No problem about removing the other resource listing, I wasn't sure if it would matter as there were two sections. Also, I couldn't seem to change my original description - is that possible?
I edited this one to appear in both sections. (ctrl-click lets you select multiple sections) As teh author, you can edit the original resource submission. Just below the title at the top of this page you should see a tab that says "edit". Clicking that will allow you to edit it. Though please don't clutter it up with lots of sales pitch and notification about free 100 accounts that will be all used up within a few days. Soft sell goes over a lot better here than hard sell.
Thanks. I wasn't trying a hard sell, I just thought people would be interested. Originally I came to the site last year for research and potentially to find test users, and when I saw the resources section I thought it would be useful to add it. Of course I'm looking to promote my business, but aren't we all!
As far as the security debate, I think I'll leave it there because my comments are being taken out of context. If you read my reply to Joe Bloggs, you'll see that we do take security extremely seriously and 'our profile' as a security factor is only one minor point I wanted to make. I'm confident that we have the knowledge and skills required to provide a secure service.
If anyone's interested in what we do or wants to ask us any questions directly, please visit our website at www.guestlisthq.com. If you're happy with your current offering, don't worry about it, good luck with your life, I'm not here to badger anyone.
Ben