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birdwatcher

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Anyone out there working for an Inn make small salary + quaterly commission? We just had a great interview open to negotiations of the salary-but its really small and with the competition in that certain city Im not sure we would want to accept it with quaterly commissions, we did that here and it just does not compute cause its 3 months like jan,feb,march( usually very slow months) may, june, july (busy but total did not do) so in retrospect unless the Inn makes lots of $$$ which we looked at their calendar through July and it does not look like it, would any of you work for small salary + commision? its a 6 room Inn but can sleep at least 15 in a college town plus many B & B's around for competition.
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toddburme

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Commssion on gross or net? But they should be able to say this would have made X last year at this level.
 

birdwatcher

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yea thats what i was thinking...we're still in the "talking" stage.
 

birdwatcher

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Paid? You mean people actually get paid to do this?.
Not much-trust me! proud texan. And yes we do need a job, but we are in one right now and are looking to find a good fit -the salary is so small that we would not be able to pay the bills we have and commission is a dice shoot cause as we all know with gas prices, unemployment and cut backs the lodging industry and more the B & B's suffer. The interviewer was so impressed that he wants to fly one or both of us out there we did agree on one of us-but now in looking at it and I would be going Im a little hesistant-is it crazy? or are they desperate? i dont know and if they do fly me out there i don't want them to think that I would be making a decision to take the job.
 

EmptyNest

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Paid? You mean people actually get paid to do this?.
Not much-trust me! proud texan. And yes we do need a job, but we are in one right now and are looking to find a good fit -the salary is so small that we would not be able to pay the bills we have and commission is a dice shoot cause as we all know with gas prices, unemployment and cut backs the lodging industry and more the B & B's suffer. The interviewer was so impressed that he wants to fly one or both of us out there we did agree on one of us-but now in looking at it and I would be going Im a little hesistant-is it crazy? or are they desperate? i dont know and if they do fly me out there i don't want them to think that I would be making a decision to take the job.
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Yes it sound intriquing...but a crap shoot as you say. You can do some investigating on line to see what the other B & B's in town are doing reservation wise. You have to make enough to live on and pay your bills...so don't make any decision quickly. You know how things worked out in your current position...so do tread carefully.
 

muirford

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From an owner's standpoint, I wouldn't hire a long-term innkeeper unless it was a salary plus commission deal. Our regular innsitters work completely on commission. If the inn is empty, they don't make any money. I would want my innkeepers to have a vested interest in the business doing well, and that's the only way I can see that working. The owners then should be willing to tell you what the projected income would be based on last year's occupancy, and show some specific records. If you don't think that's enough, or if you don't believe the inn will continue to have the same occupancy, then you shouldn't take the job. Expecting the owner to eat all of the losses if occupancy goes down - for whatever reason - isn't realistic.
 

birdwatcher

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Muriford-first of all we as Innkeepers for hire would not work on commissions alone and would not sit for an Inn for free-that is totally unrealistic. And to generalize that we or paid Innkeepers dont have a vested interest in the inn is not true either, if I was in any other profession and got paid a salary and liked what I was doing I would have a vested interest in the company I was working for-and if you own a business you are the ultimate entity that takes a "loss" if business is down ei: if I were a cashier at a grocery store and the business was not making as much as it did in the past would you fire all your employees whether that business was small or large because business was down? you might as well close down.
 

muirford

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Muriford-first of all we as Innkeepers for hire would not work on commissions alone and would not sit for an Inn for free-that is totally unrealistic. And to generalize that we or paid Innkeepers dont have a vested interest in the inn is not true either, if I was in any other profession and got paid a salary and liked what I was doing I would have a vested interest in the company I was working for-and if you own a business you are the ultimate entity that takes a "loss" if business is down ei: if I were a cashier at a grocery store and the business was not making as much as it did in the past would you fire all your employees whether that business was small or large because business was down? you might as well close down..
birdwatcher said:
first of all we as Innkeepers for hire would not work on commissions alone and would not sit for an Inn for free-that is totally unrealistic.
I didn't suggest that you should; my innsitters (short-term) do, by their choice. And, FYI, if my innsitters worked a year here on strictly commission, like they innsit, they would make more than $50K a year. That's a pretty decent salary with free housing tossed in.
I stated that salary + commission is what I would want for long-term innkeepers. This, BTW, is the pay situation in a huge number of businesses out there, from salesmen to corporate jobs. Base salary and a performance-based bonus - works very well for some of the most successful companies out there. Lots of inns pay their housekeeper by the room - that is also performance-based pay. The faster you are, the more rooms you can do or the less time you spend doing them. You don't have to like it, but it is the way things work.
As for whether I was insinuating you wouldn't care about the business unless you got paid commission, I think you're putting words in my mouth but whatever. As an owner of a similarly-sized business, the best way to insure that the business is run for the benefits of both the innkeeper and the owner would be to have both parties incented by revenue (gross and net). Just my opinion.
 

toddburme

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I think the other consideration is that in a salary only, the innkeeper might prefer not to take the last minute phone reservation on Tuesday night but a commision one would. They are trying to align the goals of management and staff. I would think that it is pretty easy to get an idea of where you would be $$$ wise.
 

gillumhouse

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Muriford-first of all we as Innkeepers for hire would not work on commissions alone and would not sit for an Inn for free-that is totally unrealistic. And to generalize that we or paid Innkeepers dont have a vested interest in the inn is not true either, if I was in any other profession and got paid a salary and liked what I was doing I would have a vested interest in the company I was working for-and if you own a business you are the ultimate entity that takes a "loss" if business is down ei: if I were a cashier at a grocery store and the business was not making as much as it did in the past would you fire all your employees whether that business was small or large because business was down? you might as well close down..
This is not aimed personally at you, please understand that. However, as an owner, I would not have an innkeeper who did not have a vested interest (financially) in keeping heads in those beds. Straight salary the innkeeper gets paid the same whether the beds have heads or not. A bonus (or commission) for revenues over X gives the innkeeper reasons for biting the tongue if a guest is dificult or busting butt to think of ways to bring in more guests.
In you example of a cashier - if business went down I guarantee you I would be looking to see if employees were being pleasant to customers and doing their job the way I wanted in addition to looking at other factors. I heard Saturday about people commenting on the personnel at a tasting room saying they would never go back/ The person telling me was a friend of the owners of that winery so he called them to ask who was staffing their tasting room that day - it was the owner! No sense in tellingHIM what his attitude did for him. I actually tried to set up a deal with that winery when I first opened - but they would never give me the time of day. The one that does work with me LOVES my guests. They know I send them a nice chunk of business. Being surly and not being willing to talk cost the other winery a LOT of business. Had they been employees, they would have been fired.
 

agoodman

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you have to weigh your options ... as in do you have any others?? What everyone forgets is that a LOT of salaries have gone down and a LOT of people are settling for less. If you don't need the job it's one thing.. but SOMETHING may be better than nothing - each to his own.
 

Copperhead

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Muriford-first of all we as Innkeepers for hire would not work on commissions alone and would not sit for an Inn for free-that is totally unrealistic. And to generalize that we or paid Innkeepers dont have a vested interest in the inn is not true either, if I was in any other profession and got paid a salary and liked what I was doing I would have a vested interest in the company I was working for-and if you own a business you are the ultimate entity that takes a "loss" if business is down ei: if I were a cashier at a grocery store and the business was not making as much as it did in the past would you fire all your employees whether that business was small or large because business was down? you might as well close down..
I agree with the salary/commission pay as it is done in many industries with great success. But I understand why you are hesitant this time around. You have been stifled by the owner with each step you try to make the place better and create more revenue. This would make anyone hesitant when trying to move forward.
You now have the hindsight behind you, make sure you ask them the important questions as to how YOU will be a part of marketing, improvements etc. to increase business. Commission based salaries can be very rewarding and profitable given the right circumstances.
 

birdwatcher

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Muriford-first of all we as Innkeepers for hire would not work on commissions alone and would not sit for an Inn for free-that is totally unrealistic. And to generalize that we or paid Innkeepers dont have a vested interest in the inn is not true either, if I was in any other profession and got paid a salary and liked what I was doing I would have a vested interest in the company I was working for-and if you own a business you are the ultimate entity that takes a "loss" if business is down ei: if I were a cashier at a grocery store and the business was not making as much as it did in the past would you fire all your employees whether that business was small or large because business was down? you might as well close down..
birdwatcher said:
first of all we as Innkeepers for hire would not work on commissions alone and would not sit for an Inn for free-that is totally unrealistic.
I didn't suggest that you should; my innsitters (short-term) do, by their choice. And, FYI, if my innsitters worked a year here on strictly commission, like they innsit, they would make more than $50K a year. That's a pretty decent salary with free housing tossed in.
I stated that salary + commission is what I would want for long-term innkeepers. This, BTW, is the pay situation in a huge number of businesses out there, from salesmen to corporate jobs. Base salary and a performance-based bonus - works very well for some of the most successful companies out there. Lots of inns pay their housekeeper by the room - that is also performance-based pay. The faster you are, the more rooms you can do or the less time you spend doing them. You don't have to like it, but it is the way things work.
As for whether I was insinuating you wouldn't care about the business unless you got paid commission, I think you're putting words in my mouth but whatever. As an owner of a similarly-sized business, the best way to insure that the business is run for the benefits of both the innkeeper and the owner would be to have both parties incented by revenue (gross and net). Just my opinion.
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Ok, sorry must have taken that out of context, yes I do understand the salary + commission or bonus and I would not be hesitant in this if it was an honest salary and I would gladly take commission which most of my corporate career I did take, but the salary was enough to pay the bills. But a quarterly commission is hard if your Inn did not make $$ on a quarterly basis to give a commission-some months are more profitable than others, I would more than likely want a monthly commission rather than a quarterly and of course I would WANT heads in beads and would do everything marketable to get those heads in beds for the commissions-and I would need some leeway for this. Yes, commissions does make you work a little harder, but the quarterly is what bothers me, monthly would be better and so the slow months would be a challenge to bring people to the Inn.
Im up for that challenge and control which the owner of this inn will not let us do-as someone else mentioned.
I work for a salary here and have potential to make a quarterly bonus, but this Inn is not busy enough for a total quarterly bonus so we'e not made a bonus and its not that we haven't had walk ins, call ins and last minute reservations we never said "no" thinking that we would make a bonus but alas Jan,Feb March is really really slow together and we would not have made commissions anyway if it were monthly. I don't have a problem with commissions but the $$ has to be there in the business or the potential for it-which this could be arranged as a salary + a small percentage until there is growth...so sorry if I misunderstood.
My Hubbie and I would have to look at their occupancy and what the profit magin is and then make our decisions from that.
 

birdwatcher

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Interview I think went pretty well and commissions is on net profit, they didn't tell us what they made last year, so this is not so good cause if I were owner I would know what I profited within a year. They want to send us all the numbers so we will see what their expenses are and what we could possibly make-they have no on-line reservations and not much for advertising didnt know what the per-diem for military is and they love groopon. I know this is not much info, and will be giving more as we get it. Again-thanks in advance.
 

Generic

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Interview I think went pretty well and commissions is on net profit, they didn't tell us what they made last year, so this is not so good cause if I were owner I would know what I profited within a year. They want to send us all the numbers so we will see what their expenses are and what we could possibly make-they have no on-line reservations and not much for advertising didnt know what the per-diem for military is and they love groopon. I know this is not much info, and will be giving more as we get it. Again-thanks in advance..
Are they willing to take your lead and move into online reservations? Groupon... a sure way to lose money at 25c on the dollar. Now are you getting paid commission on the full rate of the room, or are you going to be subsidizing their loss on the Groupon deal?
 

birdwatcher

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Interview I think went pretty well and commissions is on net profit, they didn't tell us what they made last year, so this is not so good cause if I were owner I would know what I profited within a year. They want to send us all the numbers so we will see what their expenses are and what we could possibly make-they have no on-line reservations and not much for advertising didnt know what the per-diem for military is and they love groopon. I know this is not much info, and will be giving more as we get it. Again-thanks in advance..
Are they willing to take your lead and move into online reservations? Groupon... a sure way to lose money at 25c on the dollar. Now are you getting paid commission on the full rate of the room, or are you going to be subsidizing their loss on the Groupon deal?
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Eric-yes they are willing to do that, but of course that takes away from the bottom line-meaning an expense. As of groupon, we don't know enough of it except that they said about half are never used so husband just asked if lts say they sold $5,000 groupons and 50% get used were would the others show up in the net profit? We don't want to take a commitment were it would be difficult or almost hard to make commissions so we need to know how to go about this net profit thing, my husband is much better at this than I am but I am sure there are many on this forum that has either been an innkeeper that got hired with a commission rate attached. Its the Net Profit - the expenses that will determine the worth of going there and is there potential for more if the inn has had bad reviews and alot of innkeepers.
 

white pine

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Interview I think went pretty well and commissions is on net profit, they didn't tell us what they made last year, so this is not so good cause if I were owner I would know what I profited within a year. They want to send us all the numbers so we will see what their expenses are and what we could possibly make-they have no on-line reservations and not much for advertising didnt know what the per-diem for military is and they love groopon. I know this is not much info, and will be giving more as we get it. Again-thanks in advance..
Are they willing to take your lead and move into online reservations? Groupon... a sure way to lose money at 25c on the dollar. Now are you getting paid commission on the full rate of the room, or are you going to be subsidizing their loss on the Groupon deal?
.
Eric-yes they are willing to do that, but of course that takes away from the bottom line-meaning an expense. As of groupon, we don't know enough of it except that they said about half are never used so husband just asked if lts say they sold $5,000 groupons and 50% get used were would the others show up in the net profit? We don't want to take a commitment were it would be difficult or almost hard to make commissions so we need to know how to go about this net profit thing, my husband is much better at this than I am but I am sure there are many on this forum that has either been an innkeeper that got hired with a commission rate attached. Its the Net Profit - the expenses that will determine the worth of going there and is there potential for more if the inn has had bad reviews and alot of innkeepers.
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What is your gut feeling about these people? Do they strike you as people you can work WITH? Or is this another case of you do as they say? If they are willing to let you grow the business, use online booking, and loose groopon, I would think it is worth a shot. What they did is not necessarily what the inn CAN do properly run. Will the pay cover your living expenses while you increase the business?
 
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