Breakfast...being won over to the bright side

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Arks

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After spending 3 days in a Select Registry B&B, I'm home now, rethinking things...again...after 16 hours of classroom education and a couple of great breakfasts.
As I've said here before, my plan was originally to give vouchers to a nearby cafe for breakfast. This leaves breakfast prep (and dealing with people on special diets) to the food prep professionals. Then I decided to also offer an in-house continental breakfast option for those who don't want a hot breakfast.
Now, after being refreshed on the type people who stay at lodging other than hotels, and how they, and I, enjoyed the special breakfasts and conversation with the other guests, I'm re-thinking yet again.
Would this work? I put in a full kitchen and hire a couple of people to come in at 7:00 to serve an 8:30 breakfast. After breakfast cleanup is done, these two folks begin fluffing/turning-over rooms, doing laundry, etc. Finally, before going home at 3:00 they do some prep for the next morning's breakfast. They grab a lunch break somewhere in this 8 hours (or should they work till 4:00 and get an hour lunch break?).
Please fire away on why this won't work, and educate me on how it should be done.
I'd really like to offer a good breakfast and not depend on that cafe staying in business. I was originally assuming my place would sit empty a lot, and I didn't want milk and other supplies to get old. Now, after my classes, I realize that I cannot AFFORD for things to sit empty a lot. I've got to bring in the guests, so I might as well share the full Arkansas breakfast with them.
This brings to mind another question. Most B&B's I've been to in the US have a set breakfast time and everybody eats the same wonderful thing. But I've been to a few that offer breakfast, like, from 8:30 to 10:00, and some offer a choice (fried eggs and toast, or oatmeal, or French toast, etc.). I'd like to hear thoughts on these different ways of doing breakfast.
 

One Day

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Personaly.......I like a choice for breakfast............I do understand that a one breakfast for all is the way to go with a full house.
But.......scrambled eggs or french toast?...........have to scramble the eggs to make the french toast.........oatmeal is not that difficult to whip up either.
OK.........hold on...........................................................the cleaning of the cooking utensils........yeah, that would be a drag.
I know someone mentioned that with a single room or two room booked that at times they would offer a choice for breakfast...
Yeah........that'd be the way to go
 

Copperhead

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Either way would work Ark, it all depends on what YOU want the place to be... What type of experience YOU want your guests to have. What type of rates you plan to have in comparison to the other lodging choices in the area, and weighing the rate with the service compared to those other choices.
All this goes back to other threads where we said it depends on your clientele.
 

Arks

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Either way would work Ark, it all depends on what YOU want the place to be... What type of experience YOU want your guests to have. What type of rates you plan to have in comparison to the other lodging choices in the area, and weighing the rate with the service compared to those other choices.
All this goes back to other threads where we said it depends on your clientele..
Upscale clientèle and I would be the only almost-B&B* in the county, for now at least. The only competition in the county is a Days Inn that offers a decent continental breakfast.
I suppose my theme will be, get a way to a quiet small town but still enjoy the comfortable amenities to which you are accustomed.
I guess I have some time to think about it.
___________________
*I say "almost-B&B" because I'm still not planning to live there with them!
 

Don Draper

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If I were staying at a guest house (as opposed to a B&B) I would not expect any type of breakfast, and frankly would likely not be looking to interact with other people. When folks want that they will specifically seek out a bed and breakfast.
 

Arks

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If I were staying at a guest house (as opposed to a B&B) I would not expect any type of breakfast, and frankly would likely not be looking to interact with other people. When folks want that they will specifically seek out a bed and breakfast..
Even the Day's Inn comes with breakfast. I don't think including breakfast will run anybody off (unless it's a bad breakfast
).
But I'm thinking about several separate 2/4 person tables rather than everybody eating around one big dining table.
 

Innkeeper To Go

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it.
 

Arks

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..
So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
 

Innkeeper To Go

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..
So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.
If you can afford to staff a store, you can afford an innkeeper. If you can't, you probably can't afford to open.
Someone should be onsite, IMHO. If not onsite, you should have someone available VERY CLOSE BY for guests.
If you're expecting to get $175 per night in Arkansas in a town with no tourism whatsoever, you will definitely need an innkeeper onsite to deliver the kind of luxury those rates would mean in that state.
Am I suggesting anything related to whether your place will be profitable? No. If the inn you're talking about is 5 rooms and you need to command $175 per night to be profitable, I think you will be more likely to fail than to succeed.
I think your chances of getting that daily rate are significantly reduced by the amount of service you provide (or fail to provide).
 

Copperhead

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Either way would work Ark, it all depends on what YOU want the place to be... What type of experience YOU want your guests to have. What type of rates you plan to have in comparison to the other lodging choices in the area, and weighing the rate with the service compared to those other choices.
All this goes back to other threads where we said it depends on your clientele..
Upscale clientèle and I would be the only almost-B&B* in the county, for now at least. The only competition in the county is a Days Inn that offers a decent continental breakfast.
I suppose my theme will be, get a way to a quiet small town but still enjoy the comfortable amenities to which you are accustomed.
I guess I have some time to think about it.
___________________
*I say "almost-B&B" because I'm still not planning to live there with them!
.
Upscale - then you need upscale breakfast!
And on the subject of staff... I think you need to start working those numbers a little. Just how busy will you need to be at $175 per room, per night to pay for all your expenses (including all this staff)? I am not trying to rock your boat, but am wanting you to test the waters before you launch into the ocean.
 

Innkeep

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..
So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor unless you feel that having an accessible room would help your demographics. I find in my case that keeping my quarters on the first floor with guests on the second floor works very well. I am not suggesting that you need a live-in innkeeper, but whether you plan to have an accessible room. If you do eventually opt to have a live-in innkeeper, separation from the guests works out much better in the long run.
 

swirt

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Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
You are looking at gross for one room night for one room. You should probably consider the impact on the yearly Net.
My take on is that with the right innkeeper on premises that more room nights will be sold over the course of the year than having an inn with no soul connected to it. Sure your guest house may on occasion sell out all 5 rooms, but much of the time that will not be the case. However, with the right innkeeper on premises, your actual occupancy rate may be higher even though you have fewer rooms to offer.
example: 5 rooms at 20% occupancy < 4 rooms at 30% occupancy
 

swirt

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..
So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor unless you feel that having an accessible room would help your demographics. I find in my case that keeping my quarters on the first floor with guests on the second floor works very well. I am not suggesting that you need a live-in innkeeper, but whether you plan to have an accessible room. If you do eventually opt to have a live-in innkeeper, separation from the guests works out much better in the long run.
.
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor
The standard warning applies to check this out for your own locality. ADA is Federal law that can not be decreased by local law, BUT can be made more strict by local law.
Also that exemption may apply for a B&B with owner or perhaps hired innkeeper on premises but may not apply to a business where no one is in residence.
 

Copperhead

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..
So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor unless you feel that having an accessible room would help your demographics. I find in my case that keeping my quarters on the first floor with guests on the second floor works very well. I am not suggesting that you need a live-in innkeeper, but whether you plan to have an accessible room. If you do eventually opt to have a live-in innkeeper, separation from the guests works out much better in the long run.
.
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor That is correct in federal ADA requirements but state and local laws CAN make their own laws to be more strict. Ark,,,,just make sure to have all the requirements checked for your area. And am I remembering that you possibly want to expand? If so, you would then need to have an ADA room, at least at that point.
 

Arks

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..
So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor unless you feel that having an accessible room would help your demographics. I find in my case that keeping my quarters on the first floor with guests on the second floor works very well. I am not suggesting that you need a live-in innkeeper, but whether you plan to have an accessible room. If you do eventually opt to have a live-in innkeeper, separation from the guests works out much better in the long run.
.
I intend to have a handicapped accessible room, regardless of ADA requirements.
 

Innkeeper To Go

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..
So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor unless you feel that having an accessible room would help your demographics. I find in my case that keeping my quarters on the first floor with guests on the second floor works very well. I am not suggesting that you need a live-in innkeeper, but whether you plan to have an accessible room. If you do eventually opt to have a live-in innkeeper, separation from the guests works out much better in the long run.
.
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor
The standard warning applies to check this out for your own locality. ADA is Federal law that can not be decreased by local law, BUT can be made more strict by local law.
Also that exemption may apply for a B&B with owner or perhaps hired innkeeper on premises but may not apply to a business where no one is in residence.
.
swirt said:
I believe that 5 rooms or fewer is exempt from ADA requirements, which would not require you to have a guest room on the first floor
The standard warning applies to check this out for your own locality. ADA is Federal law that can not be decreased by local law, BUT can be made more strict by local law.
Also that exemption may apply for a B&B with owner or perhaps hired innkeeper on premises but may not apply to a business where no one is in residence.
Ditto. Many localities have very stringent ADA requirements. Check locally to see what applies to you.
 

Don Draper

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I would have to agree, with all the services and amenities you are now planning to offer you will need to have someone on site 24 hours. Trust us, things you NEVER thought possible can and will go wrong, even if you think you've covered all the bases and made it dummy proof.
 

Don Draper

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If I were staying at a guest house (as opposed to a B&B) I would not expect any type of breakfast, and frankly would likely not be looking to interact with other people. When folks want that they will specifically seek out a bed and breakfast..
Even the Day's Inn comes with breakfast. I don't think including breakfast will run anybody off (unless it's a bad breakfast
).
But I'm thinking about several separate 2/4 person tables rather than everybody eating around one big dining table.
.
No, it definitely won't "run anyone off" but it will set a certain expectation. I don't take part in any hotel buffet or breakfast because it's too hectic/crazy with people hogging chairs, talking loudly, etc. And when just DH and I get to travel we typically don't choose b&b's because we interact with so many people here on a day to day basis that we're looking for quiet. A guest house to me would imply I could come and go as I please and not have to have much interaction with staff or other guests.
Just my two cents, obviously you should do what you think will work, but you have such a unique opportunity here to set this place up exactly as you want, it will save you time and money in the long run if you can get it close to "right" from the get go.
 

EmptyNest

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So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would :) Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?
 

EmptyNest

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Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..
So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.
The problem here is... 4 rooms is not many and I don't think you realize how high an occupancy rate you must have to make a go of your investment. Didn't they talk about the number of rooms you need to 'make money?" 4 usually will not do it unless you are in a really great location, or there is a reason why people are coming to your town and need a place to stay.
 
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