Breakfast...being won over to the bright side

[gillumhouse]

Either way would work Ark, it all depends on what YOU want the place to be... What type of experience YOU want your guests to have. What type of rates you plan to have in comparison to the other lodging choices in the area, and weighing the rate with the service compared to those other choices.
All this goes back to other threads where we said it depends on your clientele..

Upscale clientèle and I would be the only almost-B&B* in the county, for now at least. The only competition in the county is a Days Inn that offers a decent continental breakfast.
I suppose my theme will be, get a way to a quiet small town but still enjoy the comfortable amenities to which you are accustomed.
I guess I have some time to think about it.
___________________
*I say "almost-B&B" because I'm still not planning to live there with them!
.

Have you thought about the fact if you sleep on-site when there are guests, you will cover your need for graveyard shift personnel? That is not saying you would interact with guests, just be there in case of.... Be the one answering the phone listed on your room books for assistance.
You asked about breakfast times - I offer between 4 a.m. and 10 a.m. because I do overnight stabling and they want on the road before the heat of the day. This morning I have a full-house. #1 has a class that starts at 8 so she had a 6:45 breakfast and I shooed her out by 7:15. The 8 a.m. breakfast is about to come down and #3 qikk breakfast at 9:30. All getting the same breakfast - I made 3 separate dishes and am baking them accordingly.
What is served depends on what is in-house and what diets I may be catering to. Yesterday was bread pudding with left over French bread from their dinner and muffin bread from previous morning breakfast. Today, the second loaf of French bread became baked pineapple toast. Tomorrow it will be egg bake and English muffin bread to "knock the socks off" of 2 new guests. The 6:45 breakfast has been here many times and is one that I can toss her a muffin and a cup of coffee and she is happy - but she KNOWS what I do and appreciates it totally.

 

[Arks]

Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..

So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.

The problem here is... 4 rooms is not many and I don't think you realize how high an occupancy rate you must have to make a go of your investment. Didn't they talk about the number of rooms you need to 'make money?" 4 usually will not do it unless you are in a really great location, or there is a reason why people are coming to your town and need a place to stay.
.

Didn't they talk about the number of rooms you need to 'make money?" 4 usually will not do...

I don't plan on 4. I plan on 5. I was just responding to a post saying someone should live on-site. That would require giving up one of my 5 rooms, which I think would cost me more money than I'd save by having an on-site person.
At my seminar, he suggested I try to squeeze in another room or two, saying there's a big difference between 5 and 7. I'll certainly have the architect look at it. Our problem is that every bedroom must have a window, and since we have buildings on each side of us, we're limited to windows only on the front and back of the building.

 

[Arks]

So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)

 

[Samster]

Arkansawyer, you keep coming up with plans to hire out all these different activities and keep saying you won't have anyone onsite.
Why is that?
Why would you not want an onsite innkeeper?
You need one. It would cost you less money that tasking out each function. And it would give guests better security and better access to information as they need it..

So you're recommending I give up one room, cutting my guess accommodations from 5 rooms to 4, to have a live-in innkeeper. If I'm going to have a handicapped-accessible downstairs room, that would mean giving up a 2nd floor courtsquare-view room or a rear river-view room.
Is that the most cost-effective use of that space? I can see where giving someone free room and board would be a nice job enticement, but not sure it would be worth giving up a $175/night room.
.

The problem here is... 4 rooms is not many and I don't think you realize how high an occupancy rate you must have to make a go of your investment. Didn't they talk about the number of rooms you need to 'make money?" 4 usually will not do it unless you are in a really great location, or there is a reason why people are coming to your town and need a place to stay.
.

Didn't they talk about the number of rooms you need to 'make money?" 4 usually will not do...

I don't plan on 4. I plan on 5. I was just responding to a post saying someone should live on-site. That would require giving up one of my 5 rooms, which I think would cost me more money than I'd save by having an on-site person.
At my seminar, he suggested I try to squeeze in another room or two, saying there's a big difference between 5 and 7. I'll certainly have the architect look at it. Our problem is that every bedroom must have a window, and since we have buildings on each side of us, we're limited to windows only on the front and back of the building.
.

Okey dokey....you asked for the real skinny. I just closed a 5 room B&B with very good occupancy and high average room rates. Our last month in business was fantastic. After 2 years, it was exhausting and I was tired of dealing with all the overhead. Do you have all the info on just what you'll be paying for in addition to employees? Business personal property tax, commercial insurance, business license, occupation tax, property tax, meal tax, lodging taxes, etc. Not to mention utilities, maintenance, pest control (if required), and continued enhancements.
Then you've got all your renovations of the property and fully furnishing all those rooms. You'll continually have to replace linens and such. Will you eventually make your money back? What will bring guests to this town to pay what you think these unhosted rooms will be worth, upscale breakfast or not?
I think you probably have a good business plan but just want to be sure that you know what you're in for.
I worked at a large inn where the owners left much of the work to housekeepers and kitchen staff. The guests were always asking where the owners were or when would they meet them. I'm not saying that on-site owners are a must, but at least there needs to be some kind of continuity in the staff for this kind of business imvvho. Something that reinforces the "brand". Otherwise, you need to go with the unhosted guest house scenario and people know what they're getting.

 

[Breakfast Diva]

So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)
.

If the covenience store is just a break even project, I would suggest you forget that idea and make that space into an innkeepers quarters and hire someone to live there.

 

[One Day]

Or maybe a smaller store front + inkeepers quarters

 

[Samster]

So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)
.

There's that dreaded term "hobby" business......

 

[Innkeeper To Go]

So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)
.

There's that dreaded term "hobby" business......
.

Which I think is a huge clue to the whole cluelessness that keeps showing up on this thread and other threads related to this guy.
He
a. has no interest in being or employing an innkeeper
b. is not really sure from one day to the next whether he wants to even serve breakfast
c. thinks a convenience store is the same thing as a front desk
d. thinks a limited service guest house in Arkansas will draw $175 per night with no previous history of guests of any kind
e. thinks of this as a hobby
f. is not appropriate to this forum.

 

[Copperhead]

So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)
.

There's that dreaded term "hobby" business......
.

Which I think is a huge clue to the whole cluelessness that keeps showing up on this thread and other threads related to this guy.
He
a. has no interest in being or employing an innkeeper
b. is not really sure from one day to the next whether he wants to even serve breakfast
c. thinks a convenience store is the same thing as a front desk
d. thinks a limited service guest house in Arkansas will draw $175 per night with no previous history of guests of any kind
e. thinks of this as a hobby
f. is not appropriate to this forum.
.

f. is not appropriate to this forum.
I disagree. Where else would he find out what or if he should pursue this idea?
He IS in the planning stages... evolving his ideas as he hears better ones. We are contributing to those better ideas...It is better that he uses us as his sounding board than place his money in a project that due to being uninformed fails and he wonders why.
Ark - keep the ideas coming & be ready to dodge the bullets! LOL

 

[Copperhead]

So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)
.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)

Why not have her do some to the work in the B&B/Guest House and use the sq. ft. you had planned for the store to be used for something that will provide revenue? Why waste this valuable area for something no more than a hobby? I know you love your sister, find something else that she could assist with. If you want to have a store of some kind, make it a novelty (local stuff) store as part of your entrance area and she could be your hostess - the person the guests would feel a connection to.

 

[River Wren]

Either way would work Ark, it all depends on what YOU want the place to be... What type of experience YOU want your guests to have. What type of rates you plan to have in comparison to the other lodging choices in the area, and weighing the rate with the service compared to those other choices.
All this goes back to other threads where we said it depends on your clientele..

Upscale clientèle and I would be the only almost-B&B* in the county, for now at least. The only competition in the county is a Days Inn that offers a decent continental breakfast.
I suppose my theme will be, get a way to a quiet small town but still enjoy the comfortable amenities to which you are accustomed.
I guess I have some time to think about it.
___________________
*I say "almost-B&B" because I'm still not planning to live there with them!
.

Upscale - then you need upscale breakfast!
And on the subject of staff... I think you need to start working those numbers a little. Just how busy will you need to be at $175 per room, per night to pay for all your expenses (including all this staff)? I am not trying to rock your boat, but am wanting you to test the waters before you launch into the ocean.
.

Upscale - then you need upscale breakfast!
And on the subject of staff... I think you need to start working those numbers a little. Just how busy will you need to be at $175 per room, per night to pay for all your expenses (including all this staff)? I am not trying to rock your boat, but am wanting you to test the waters before you launch into the ocean.

I agree. Good staff is expensive. You will need to rethink your overhead at $175 a night.

 

[Innkeeper To Go]

So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)
.

There's that dreaded term "hobby" business......
.

Which I think is a huge clue to the whole cluelessness that keeps showing up on this thread and other threads related to this guy.
He
a. has no interest in being or employing an innkeeper
b. is not really sure from one day to the next whether he wants to even serve breakfast
c. thinks a convenience store is the same thing as a front desk
d. thinks a limited service guest house in Arkansas will draw $175 per night with no previous history of guests of any kind
e. thinks of this as a hobby
f. is not appropriate to this forum.
.

f. is not appropriate to this forum.
I disagree. Where else would he find out what or if he should pursue this idea?
He IS in the planning stages... evolving his ideas as he hears better ones. We are contributing to those better ideas...It is better that he uses us as his sounding board than place his money in a project that due to being uninformed fails and he wonders why.
Ark - keep the ideas coming & be ready to dodge the bullets! LOL
.

f. is not appropriate to this forum.
I disagree. Where else would he find out what or if he should pursue this idea?
He IS in the planning stages... evolving his ideas as he hears better ones. We are contributing to those better ideas...It is better that he uses us as his sounding board than place his money in a project that due to being uninformed fails and he wonders why.

All very true, if he listens. But I'm not getting the sense at all that anything we're saying here is impacting any of that.
That's not a bullet, BTW. It's my opinion and it holds no ammunition whatsoever.

 

[EmptyNest]

I maybe have forgotten...but can you tell us again....why would anyone come to the town you are proposing to sink all this money into? And I still say a 5 room inn will not make you any money either...if there is no reason for someone to come there and stay.
If you want to restore the place and spend a fortune..... open as a "little hotel", check guests in and be done with them. Let your sister have her convenience store and then see what happens.

 

[Samster]

So ..it sounds like the aspiring class had the effect we knew it would Hopefully your eyes are opened now to what the "behind the scenes" things are. I see having breakfast as a benefit to you and your guests. Make it a true B & B. Yes, it would be someone else doing the breakfast, but that's ok...they just have to realize they represent you and treat folks accordingly.
HOw hands on did you say you would be?.

HOw hands on did you say you would be?

I'll handle the website, e-mailing, online reservations, payroll and book keeping, tax payments, ads and other promotion, etc.
I'll probably be down there a while most days after 5 p.m. and since I'm off work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I expect to be there a lot on those days.
The convenience store aspect is actually my sister's project. She'll manage that with the plan that it will produce enough revenue to pay it's own way (staff, supplies, fees and taxes, utilities, etc.). We don't expect any profit from it. It's more of a hobby of hers. (she's retired)
.

There's that dreaded term "hobby" business......
.

Which I think is a huge clue to the whole cluelessness that keeps showing up on this thread and other threads related to this guy.
He
a. has no interest in being or employing an innkeeper
b. is not really sure from one day to the next whether he wants to even serve breakfast
c. thinks a convenience store is the same thing as a front desk
d. thinks a limited service guest house in Arkansas will draw $175 per night with no previous history of guests of any kind
e. thinks of this as a hobby
f. is not appropriate to this forum.
.

I agree with most of what you say except that if he really listens, his topics could be appropriate for this forum. I've known a few inn owners that were just looking for a place to renovate, decorate, and lose money....if you know what I mean.
Yeah, check in and get your Big Giant Carbonated Fountain Drink of choice. lol!

 

[Arks]

Copperhead wrote:I disagree. Where else would he find out what or if he should pursue this idea?
He IS in the planning stages... evolving his ideas as he hears better ones. We are contributing to those better ideas...It is better that he uses us as his sounding board than place his money in a project that due to being uninformed fails and he wonders why.
Thanks for the understanding, Copperhead. There are some wonderful, helpful, generous people on this forum, and I've learned a lot from them as I've modified my plans time and time again to use the advice many here have given me.
There are also some absolutely horrible people here, people who probably are not well suited to help aspiring innkeepers learn.
The assertion that I would be playing with this as a hobby, and the implication that I am intentionally trying to lose money, are especially hurtful, after me spending all the hours I have here, and reading all the books I have, and paying $900 for a 3-day seminar. If I were not serious and dedicated, if I were trying to lose money for tax benefits, why would I have worked so hard to get educated on this subject?
I have learned a lot here, but won't stay where I'm not welcome. I'm joining PAII at the aspiring innkeeper level, and hope they will be a little more professional and patient with beginners. I won't bother y'all here any more.

 

[One Day]

Whoa........there Ark.
Dude..........keep it in perspective..........step out and think over what you have written over time........I don't follow everything to closely........however, I have found you to be some what eratic with your plans........but yeah.......everyone needs a sounding board......
Go over in your head the statements you have made........from my perspective........you have a nice dream, a bit ambitious for what appears to be the project you are undertaking.
So.........some here don't always slap you on the back telling you "atta boy, good job"...........some will in fact slap you upside the head and tell you "what are you thinking?"
I don't think anyone here would intentionaly rain on your parade......but, on some parades, some rain will fall.......
what you see as negative comments........is realy constructive criticism.......as it is an opportunity to gather a different perspective.........never does one person have all the answers....
Use the comments as you like........the good, the bad.......save the good, throw away the bad.................before you dismiss the bad comments. Use those as a learning tool........to view things from another perspective......to see what the underlying message or idea is..........you'd be surprised what gems of wisdom come from what we don't or don't like to hear.
And if you can't take the benign less than what you want comments from your soon to be peers.........how are you going to take it from a guest or a bad review.
ya know.........some folks are good at sugar coating things........others are only good at being blunt..............so what? take it in stride..............and don't be so quick to run off..........This forum needs you..........the members need you...........I and any other lurking or future aspiring need you
Swirt.....should this post be deemed beyond my involvment then please delete

 

[Samster]

Whoa........there Ark.
Dude..........keep it in perspective..........step out and think over what you have written over time........I don't follow everything to closely........however, I have found you to be some what eratic with your plans........but yeah.......everyone needs a sounding board......
Go over in your head the statements you have made........from my perspective........you have a nice dream, a bit ambitious for what appears to be the project you are undertaking.
So.........some here don't always slap you on the back telling you "atta boy, good job"...........some will in fact slap you upside the head and tell you "what are you thinking?"
I don't think anyone here would intentionaly rain on your parade......but, on some parades, some rain will fall.......
what you see as negative comments........is realy constructive criticism.......as it is an opportunity to gather a different perspective.........never does one person have all the answers....
Use the comments as you like........the good, the bad.......save the good, throw away the bad.................before you dismiss the bad comments. Use those as a learning tool........to view things from another perspective......to see what the underlying message or idea is..........you'd be surprised what gems of wisdom come from what we don't or don't like to hear.
And if you can't take the benign less than what you want comments from your soon to be peers.........how are you going to take it from a guest or a bad review.
ya know.........some folks are good at sugar coating things........others are only good at being blunt..............so what? take it in stride..............and don't be so quick to run off..........This forum needs you..........the members need you...........I and any other lurking or future aspiring need you
Swirt.....should this post be deemed beyond my involvment then please delete.

Well said, One Day....you get us.

 

[Samster]

Copperhead wrote:I disagree. Where else would he find out what or if he should pursue this idea?
He IS in the planning stages... evolving his ideas as he hears better ones. We are contributing to those better ideas...It is better that he uses us as his sounding board than place his money in a project that due to being uninformed fails and he wonders why.
Thanks for the understanding, Copperhead. There are some wonderful, helpful, generous people on this forum, and I've learned a lot from them as I've modified my plans time and time again to use the advice many here have given me.
There are also some absolutely horrible people here, people who probably are not well suited to help aspiring innkeepers learn.
The assertion that I would be playing with this as a hobby, and the implication that I am intentionally trying to lose money, are especially hurtful, after me spending all the hours I have here, and reading all the books I have, and paying $900 for a 3-day seminar. If I were not serious and dedicated, if I were trying to lose money for tax benefits, why would I have worked so hard to get educated on this subject?
I have learned a lot here, but won't stay where I'm not welcome. I'm joining PAII at the aspiring innkeeper level, and hope they will be a little more professional and patient with beginners. I won't bother y'all here any more..

Oh, good grief. If you're going to deal with the traveling public you'll have to get a thicker skin than that. You asked about the nitty gritty, we told you. You said in your own post that the convenience store part would be your sister's hobby. I was not implying that you would be purposefully losing money but just stated that there are very wealthy people out there that have done just that. You still haven't told anyone here on the forum what would draw people to the town or your guest house. You've stayed at a Select Registry Inn....you should get my tongue in cheek remark about the picking up keys next to a fountain drink dispenser.

We're trying to help you look at all your options.

 

[birdwatcher]

All good intentions and plans have bad things happen. We planned for a B & B with two homes one a guest house and one we lived in and we spent lots of $$$$ renovating, buying and planning. And this was a town in PODUNK with tourism...all good plans but even with 6 rooms and a guest house that we rented as a house and MADE breakfast we did not make any money. We didn't plan according to what some people said...we learned alot and we love Innkeeping because now we work for an owner in an Inn that does not get tourists...
Nothing to bring them here although they are trying to get main street going, another restaurant closed just a couple weeks ago...and one restaurant on main street does not make it, we have to send them out of town which defeats the purpouse of main street renovation. So we have alot of business travelers and many gov't business guests and they don't pay $175/night. We would just like to tell you the truth and the truth is that if you have no tourism what brings people to your town to spend that kind of money in a depressed area?
This forum is a god send, I could not begin to tell you how truthful they are but they are all here to give you the advise you need not want...they have done so for me and I appreciate it...all walks of life and all walks of experience. I take their advise seriously and if I feel as if I didn't think it was appropriate I let it go.

 

[JBloggs]

"Do what we can, summer will have its flies."
As an fyi - I would bet 25% of this forum doesn't get on with 25% of the forum. This is a forum, made up of all sorts, likes and dislikes. Some of my best innmates here are diametrically opposed. Ain't life grand?!