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What gets me is bedandbreakfast.com whine explain that their costs to execute the program are so high and that's why they have to pass so much off to the B&B's. Well hello? They are the ones who designed and implemented the program (with apparently little to no consideration for the B&B's they are supposedly partnering with) so they had and still have control over the nature of the expenses.
John and Eric have been on the forums and heard the concerns of innkeepers that the commission is too high and that the stats they quote about effective commission do NOT apply to many many many innkeepers. BanB.com could have chosen to address those concerns and try to bring their expenses down in order to make the program more equitable. In fact that would have been an intelligent business move. But instead they plug their ears, tell us how great they are for the industry and jack up their commission. Nice.
And to give an example of an expense that could be reduced: the print books. It costs a lot of money to print 64-page colour books, and it costs to ship them. Why, I would like to know, does an online directory feel it is necessary to distribute printed books? John's told that the membership fee for the directory is so high because of all he does to drive traffic there. Well why not direct the GC users to the online directory instead of giving them a paper option?
And in terms of the high cost of packaging and shipping the GCs: why not manage those expenses better? Perhaps give the purchaser the option of Free Standard packaging and shipping (nice envelope, postcard directing recipient to website, standard ground mail) and offer an upgraded package whereby the purchaser can pay a little extra to have more bells and whistles around the card and maybe overnight delivery. Just some ideas off the top of my head how bedandbreakfast.com could look at cutting down their expenses instead of sticking it to the small B&B owner.
All of course is my high-falutin' and not very humble opinion..
happyjacks said:
All of course is my high-falutin' and not very humble opinion.
Kathleen? I love the fact that we can all be high falutin' on this forum.
cheers.gif

So far I concur, once again that BandB.com makes money off of INNKEEPERS and the INNKEEPERS are the one getting the shaft.
BTW I will now speak my part on the giant pack of review cards that I had to throw away because noone wants to fill them out. No cost involved in that, aye? But everybody loves to read reviews. (Here was one I got from that review card promo - "NICE PLACE.")
ONCE AGAIN, I reitertate you comments - ONLINE DIRECTORY. Not paper, not printed, ONLINE!!!
 
Here's what we received:
We are writing with important information about changes to the BedandBreakfast.com Gift Card Program, effective October 1, 2008.
Here's the information in a nutshell -- for complete details, please see below.
  1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses.
  2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%.
  3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a scale of 15%-20%, depending on the volume of redemptions.
  4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with restrictions on their use.
1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses. Allowing Costco to sell gift cards at a discount accomplished two important goals: it gave the B&B industry national exposure to affluent consumers, and it enabled us to get cards into 20,000 other retail outlets on a non-discounted basis. Unfortunately, many consumers started using them as a travel discount card, not as a gift card. This did not achieve the goal of getting new heads in beds and increased the average sale size, thereby increasing the effective commission innkeepers paid. Since Costco customers will no longer be gaming the system and redeeming five or more $100 cards to pay for an entire reservation, you won't be hit with high dollars on redemption as in the past. The effective commission rate should truly average in the upper single digits (8%-9%).
2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%. For every dollar in gift cards you sell, you keep 20 cents, with absolutely no risk or upfront costs of any kind. Your guests will be looking to buy holiday gifts for their loved ones - why not encourage them to skip a trip to the mall and purchase the gift of a getaway from you? Your income from selling the cards will easily offset the cost of the commission owed to us on redeemed cards. If you're not yet participating in our resellers program, log in to your Home Base and sign up today!
3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a 15%-20% scale. During the past two years, we have significantly increased the quality and distribution of our gift cards, with the result that exposure for the B&B industry is significantly enhanced along with reservations for our member innkeepers, but our expenses have escalated significantly as well:
  • Paper certificates have been replaced by plastic cards, with a choice of over two dozen styles.
  • Free photo uploads allow consumers to customize gift cards with photos of their loved ones.
  • Internet mail orders are sent with a free 64-page inn directory.
  • Shipping is free on all orders, with free FedEx on orders of $100 and up.
  • An outside firm is paid to ensure full legal compliance with the labyrinth of state escheatment laws.
  • Cards (and card hangers) are printed and shipped to 20,000 retail locations.
  • A full-time sales person works to sell gift cards to corporate, premium and incentive distribution channels (Coca-Cola, IBM, Dell, etc.)
  • Advertising and PR programs include press releases and national advertising, including our second full-page ad in SkyMall magazine, with five million copies read by 155 million affluent passengers, in planes through December 2008.
  • We've had countless customers tell us how much they love this gift, and how they made their choice of where to stay based on which properties are in the program. (Click here to read customer reviews.)
New commission schedule: Starting October 1, 2008, the commission on the first $1,500 in redemptions in a calendar year will be 20%; on the next $3,500 it will be 17.5%; and on everything over $5,000 it will be 15%. The full 20% commission will be charged on all transactions, and a rebate check will be sent to innkeepers after the end of every calendar year for any amount due. The new commission structure will cost an average of $42 annually per property. Since the average gift card sale is $150 dollars and the average B&B stay is close to $350, the effective commission rate for the program is still under 10%. For the initial change in pricing, the term will run from October 1 through December 31, 2009 (15 months), so more properties will qualify for the lower rates.
4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with the following restriction on their use:
  • Special Costco.com/BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will be created, and only two cards will be allowed to be redeemed per stay (total value of $200), thereby capping your cost and ensuring that travelers do not show up and try to pay for an entire $600 stay with discounted cards.
  • Costco.com cards will be clearly labeled to differentiate them from regular BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
  • Gift cards cannot be used to pay for group functions. (This applies to all BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.)
Selling gift cards on Costco.com is quite different from selling in Costco warehouses. When you factor in the shipping price, the impact of the discount is minimal. Consumers are unlikely to purchase gift cards just for the discount, and the use restrictions provide additional protection. This should position these cards as a great "gift", not as a "discounted travel card".
In conclusion, we feel the results speak for themselves. This program generates tremendous exposure and new business for the entire B&B industry. A program with over 4,000 participating properties makes us competitive with giant chains like Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton. In addition, in terms of the consumer experience, having a high quality state-of-the-art gift card program that compares favorably with the gift cards of major bank and retail chains gives potential guests the confidence that their first B&B experience will be equally first-rate.
A high-end, professional gift card program with online and retail distribution, custom cards, free directories, free shipping, national full-page ads to drive sales, plus the staff to make it happen costs plenty, but we are confident that it's an excellent way for you to get new guests at no risk. Last but not least, please remember that in this currently shaky economy, paying a 20% commission on a portion of the revenue generated by a guest's stay is better than not having a reservation at all. In other words, similar to what we've long said about online reservations, it's better to have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
We very much hope you'll continue to participate in welcoming and selling BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
The directory of participating inns is going to press on October 10. If you feel that this optional program no longer works for you, please call our support team at 1-800-GO-B-AND-B as soon as possible, so we can omit your property from the next printed directory and so you won't get calls from folks wanting to use their gift card at your property.
We look forward to continuing to promote the B&B industry through the gift card program, and we thank you for your business..
bb.com said:
Unfortunately, many consumers started using them as a travel discount card, not as a gift card.
Well, duh... Isn't that what we said all along?
bb.com said:
Since Costco customers will no longer be gaming the system and redeeming five or more $100 cards to pay for an entire reservation, you won't be hit with high dollars on redemption as in the past. The effective commission rate should truly average in the upper single digits (8%-9%).
What, only Costco customers are smart enough to game the system?
bb.com said:
2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%.
Ooohh... I could make money. Or I could sell my own certificates. Actually, I never even sell my own... guess I'm not big enough to have the kind of traffic needed to make it worth it.
bb.com said:
3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a 15%-20% scale.
Ouch.
bb.com said:
During the past two years, we have significantly increased the quality and distribution of our gift cards, with the result that exposure for the B&B industry is significantly enhanced along with reservations for our member innkeepers, but our expenses have escalated significantly as well:
Exposure for industry... good.
Reservations for members... fine, whatever.
Expenses... yeah, mine, too.
bb.com said:
New commission schedule: Starting October 1, 2008,
Wow, lots of notice...
bb.com said:
4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with the following restriction on their use: ... Selling gift cards on Costco.com is quite different from selling in Costco warehouses. When you factor in the shipping price, the impact of the discount is minimal. Consumers are unlikely to purchase gift cards just for the discount, and the use restrictions provide additional protection. This should position these cards as a great "gift", not as a "discounted travel card".
Anyone who's been "gaming the system" and accustomed to searching out deals will continue gaming the system by going online.
bb.com said:
In conclusion, we feel the results speak for themselves. This program generates tremendous exposure and new business for the entire B&B industry. A program with over 4,000 participating properties makes us competitive with giant chains like Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton.
But we are not a giant chain... we are a collection of small businesses.
bb.com said:
Last but not least, please remember that in this currently shaky economy, paying a 20% commission on a portion of the revenue generated by a guest's stay is better than not having a reservation at all. In other words, similar to what we've long said about online reservations, it's better to have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
Ah... so you do recognize that it's 20%, not this 8-9% baloney.
Um... so I guess you're expecting my overhead and other costs to be less than 80%. If someone's overhead is 80% or greater, though, then yeah, actually, 100% of nothing is better.
=)
Kk.
 
The short notice period is diabolically evil, in my opinion, and smacks of a desparate money grab. No doubt they are all aware that fall foliage season is a huge season for many, many B&Bs.
BTW, we STILL haven't received our notification about the commission increase. I wonder how many days notice we would actually have had if I wasn't on the forum.
 
I truthfully signed up again because they did listen and remove the ads from our pages. PLUS they have the Publicity Leads on Sopport - HOWEVER I am seriously considering a non-renewal due to the hammering I get to do this and do that which will enhance the coffers of bandb (the expense they are wanting us to cover as they develop more things to sell us) as they raise our rates because we offer this and that (who cares, I want a Directory). To get back to the Publicity Leads - that is where I got the lead for the Rachal Rae debachle and I have been noticing more and more requests for upscale and localized which do me no good. So I am back to paying the same amount of dollars to promote my 3 rooms as a 15+ resort Spa Inn....... and the stats do not hold water - at least not enough water - to make me think it will be that big a deal to drop it.
I think Podunk is going to take a year sabatical to test the waters and see what -if any - difference it makes with the reservations. There has to be a decision as to who is being served and who is the driver. Take away enough inns and what is there to be found by the consumer? And BTW Google is my biggest referer.
 
Samster you just signed up, do you know about this?.
Nope...it was 15% on the info that I agreed to. I only signed up with them because the other inns here take them. This hits our smaller operations pretty hard, I think. I'm sure that it was because of higher production costs for the card, more marketing, etc. Right?
 
I truthfully signed up again because they did listen and remove the ads from our pages. PLUS they have the Publicity Leads on Sopport - HOWEVER I am seriously considering a non-renewal due to the hammering I get to do this and do that which will enhance the coffers of bandb (the expense they are wanting us to cover as they develop more things to sell us) as they raise our rates because we offer this and that (who cares, I want a Directory). To get back to the Publicity Leads - that is where I got the lead for the Rachal Rae debachle and I have been noticing more and more requests for upscale and localized which do me no good. So I am back to paying the same amount of dollars to promote my 3 rooms as a 15+ resort Spa Inn....... and the stats do not hold water - at least not enough water - to make me think it will be that big a deal to drop it.
I think Podunk is going to take a year sabatical to test the waters and see what -if any - difference it makes with the reservations. There has to be a decision as to who is being served and who is the driver. Take away enough inns and what is there to be found by the consumer? And BTW Google is my biggest referer..
I notice a lot of media requests that I see in various locations are for the things you mention...upscale, spas, dinner packages, romance packages that include on site massages. I just got asked to write guest itineraries for my local chamber website. Why would I do that? Maybe if I got the byline and a link to my website (direct to my website, not to my listing on their site) I might consider it. But I'm also considering dropping them because they're not doing a stitch of marketing or advertising. So I definitely don't want to give them the benefit of my research.
 
I truthfully signed up again because they did listen and remove the ads from our pages. PLUS they have the Publicity Leads on Sopport - HOWEVER I am seriously considering a non-renewal due to the hammering I get to do this and do that which will enhance the coffers of bandb (the expense they are wanting us to cover as they develop more things to sell us) as they raise our rates because we offer this and that (who cares, I want a Directory). To get back to the Publicity Leads - that is where I got the lead for the Rachal Rae debachle and I have been noticing more and more requests for upscale and localized which do me no good. So I am back to paying the same amount of dollars to promote my 3 rooms as a 15+ resort Spa Inn....... and the stats do not hold water - at least not enough water - to make me think it will be that big a deal to drop it.
I think Podunk is going to take a year sabatical to test the waters and see what -if any - difference it makes with the reservations. There has to be a decision as to who is being served and who is the driver. Take away enough inns and what is there to be found by the consumer? And BTW Google is my biggest referer..
I notice a lot of media requests that I see in various locations are for the things you mention...upscale, spas, dinner packages, romance packages that include on site massages. I just got asked to write guest itineraries for my local chamber website. Why would I do that? Maybe if I got the byline and a link to my website (direct to my website, not to my listing on their site) I might consider it. But I'm also considering dropping them because they're not doing a stitch of marketing or advertising. So I definitely don't want to give them the benefit of my research.
.
One of the "Leads" specified it was for Affluent Travelers. I have had a lot of affluent guests - if their cars tell me anything as in new Boxters, Jags, etc - but I doubt they would have liked themselves to be labeled Affluent Travelers. They got the same service as my first timers in a 10 year old car or the college kids who came here.
I think I am becoming disenchanted with the "travel writers" and the Directories who are going to help us.... My response is starting to be "Grab yer wallet, Mabel, its the Govmint coming to help us!"
 
"this is all she wrote"
Dear JBJ,
Per your request, the Historic House Bed and Breakfast has been removed from the BedandBreakfast.com gift card program.
Regards,
Veronica R. Gonzales, Membership Consultant
BedandBreakfast.com & Inns.com
700 Brazos Street, Suite B-700, Austin, TX 78701
Office: 512.322.2722
Toll free:1.800.GO.B.AND.B (1.800.462.2632), extension 2722
Fax: 512.320.0883
[email protected].
Yep, that's pretty much about all we got too when we opted out today. Not, "oh how can we make it work, or why are you leaving and what can we do to keep your business", it was pretty much, don't let the door hit you..."
And they told us we could go ahead and throw away or destroy the cards we have left, nice to know they are so concerned about those expensive cards going to waste.
 
What gets me is bedandbreakfast.com whine explain that their costs to execute the program are so high and that's why they have to pass so much off to the B&B's. Well hello? They are the ones who designed and implemented the program (with apparently little to no consideration for the B&B's they are supposedly partnering with) so they had and still have control over the nature of the expenses.
John and Eric have been on the forums and heard the concerns of innkeepers that the commission is too high and that the stats they quote about effective commission do NOT apply to many many many innkeepers. BanB.com could have chosen to address those concerns and try to bring their expenses down in order to make the program more equitable. In fact that would have been an intelligent business move. But instead they plug their ears, tell us how great they are for the industry and jack up their commission. Nice.
And to give an example of an expense that could be reduced: the print books. It costs a lot of money to print 64-page colour books, and it costs to ship them. Why, I would like to know, does an online directory feel it is necessary to distribute printed books? John's told that the membership fee for the directory is so high because of all he does to drive traffic there. Well why not direct the GC users to the online directory instead of giving them a paper option?
And in terms of the high cost of packaging and shipping the GCs: why not manage those expenses better? Perhaps give the purchaser the option of Free Standard packaging and shipping (nice envelope, postcard directing recipient to website, standard ground mail) and offer an upgraded package whereby the purchaser can pay a little extra to have more bells and whistles around the card and maybe overnight delivery. Just some ideas off the top of my head how bedandbreakfast.com could look at cutting down their expenses instead of sticking it to the small B&B owner.
All of course is my high-falutin' and not very humble opinion..
Happyjacks said:
Why, I would like to know, does an online directory feel it is necessary to distribute printed books?
This is an excellent point. And with now many people dropping the program and their names still out there in the printed book, it creates a latency problem. Nearly as soon as it is printed, it is out of date. The website can be the most up-to-date.
 
Here's what we received:
We are writing with important information about changes to the BedandBreakfast.com Gift Card Program, effective October 1, 2008.
Here's the information in a nutshell -- for complete details, please see below.
  1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses.
  2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%.
  3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a scale of 15%-20%, depending on the volume of redemptions.
  4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with restrictions on their use.
1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses. Allowing Costco to sell gift cards at a discount accomplished two important goals: it gave the B&B industry national exposure to affluent consumers, and it enabled us to get cards into 20,000 other retail outlets on a non-discounted basis. Unfortunately, many consumers started using them as a travel discount card, not as a gift card. This did not achieve the goal of getting new heads in beds and increased the average sale size, thereby increasing the effective commission innkeepers paid. Since Costco customers will no longer be gaming the system and redeeming five or more $100 cards to pay for an entire reservation, you won't be hit with high dollars on redemption as in the past. The effective commission rate should truly average in the upper single digits (8%-9%).
2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%. For every dollar in gift cards you sell, you keep 20 cents, with absolutely no risk or upfront costs of any kind. Your guests will be looking to buy holiday gifts for their loved ones - why not encourage them to skip a trip to the mall and purchase the gift of a getaway from you? Your income from selling the cards will easily offset the cost of the commission owed to us on redeemed cards. If you're not yet participating in our resellers program, log in to your Home Base and sign up today!
3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a 15%-20% scale. During the past two years, we have significantly increased the quality and distribution of our gift cards, with the result that exposure for the B&B industry is significantly enhanced along with reservations for our member innkeepers, but our expenses have escalated significantly as well:
  • Paper certificates have been replaced by plastic cards, with a choice of over two dozen styles.
  • Free photo uploads allow consumers to customize gift cards with photos of their loved ones.
  • Internet mail orders are sent with a free 64-page inn directory.
  • Shipping is free on all orders, with free FedEx on orders of $100 and up.
  • An outside firm is paid to ensure full legal compliance with the labyrinth of state escheatment laws.
  • Cards (and card hangers) are printed and shipped to 20,000 retail locations.
  • A full-time sales person works to sell gift cards to corporate, premium and incentive distribution channels (Coca-Cola, IBM, Dell, etc.)
  • Advertising and PR programs include press releases and national advertising, including our second full-page ad in SkyMall magazine, with five million copies read by 155 million affluent passengers, in planes through December 2008.
  • We've had countless customers tell us how much they love this gift, and how they made their choice of where to stay based on which properties are in the program. (Click here to read customer reviews.)
New commission schedule: Starting October 1, 2008, the commission on the first $1,500 in redemptions in a calendar year will be 20%; on the next $3,500 it will be 17.5%; and on everything over $5,000 it will be 15%. The full 20% commission will be charged on all transactions, and a rebate check will be sent to innkeepers after the end of every calendar year for any amount due. The new commission structure will cost an average of $42 annually per property. Since the average gift card sale is $150 dollars and the average B&B stay is close to $350, the effective commission rate for the program is still under 10%. For the initial change in pricing, the term will run from October 1 through December 31, 2009 (15 months), so more properties will qualify for the lower rates.
4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with the following restriction on their use:
  • Special Costco.com/BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will be created, and only two cards will be allowed to be redeemed per stay (total value of $200), thereby capping your cost and ensuring that travelers do not show up and try to pay for an entire $600 stay with discounted cards.
  • Costco.com cards will be clearly labeled to differentiate them from regular BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
  • Gift cards cannot be used to pay for group functions. (This applies to all BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.)
Selling gift cards on Costco.com is quite different from selling in Costco warehouses. When you factor in the shipping price, the impact of the discount is minimal. Consumers are unlikely to purchase gift cards just for the discount, and the use restrictions provide additional protection. This should position these cards as a great "gift", not as a "discounted travel card".
In conclusion, we feel the results speak for themselves. This program generates tremendous exposure and new business for the entire B&B industry. A program with over 4,000 participating properties makes us competitive with giant chains like Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton. In addition, in terms of the consumer experience, having a high quality state-of-the-art gift card program that compares favorably with the gift cards of major bank and retail chains gives potential guests the confidence that their first B&B experience will be equally first-rate.
A high-end, professional gift card program with online and retail distribution, custom cards, free directories, free shipping, national full-page ads to drive sales, plus the staff to make it happen costs plenty, but we are confident that it's an excellent way for you to get new guests at no risk. Last but not least, please remember that in this currently shaky economy, paying a 20% commission on a portion of the revenue generated by a guest's stay is better than not having a reservation at all. In other words, similar to what we've long said about online reservations, it's better to have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
We very much hope you'll continue to participate in welcoming and selling BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
The directory of participating inns is going to press on October 10. If you feel that this optional program no longer works for you, please call our support team at 1-800-GO-B-AND-B as soon as possible, so we can omit your property from the next printed directory and so you won't get calls from folks wanting to use their gift card at your property.
We look forward to continuing to promote the B&B industry through the gift card program, and we thank you for your business..
WOW
wow.gif
short turn around/notice AND a 33% increase in the costs to the innkeeper??
[edited to improve clarity of the percentage]
 
I do not know about quitting, but one of our members sold as a residence and when I told bandb to remove them I was told they would get a prorated refund.
 
Here's what we received:
We are writing with important information about changes to the BedandBreakfast.com Gift Card Program, effective October 1, 2008.
Here's the information in a nutshell -- for complete details, please see below.
  1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses.
  2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%.
  3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a scale of 15%-20%, depending on the volume of redemptions.
  4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with restrictions on their use.
1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses. Allowing Costco to sell gift cards at a discount accomplished two important goals: it gave the B&B industry national exposure to affluent consumers, and it enabled us to get cards into 20,000 other retail outlets on a non-discounted basis. Unfortunately, many consumers started using them as a travel discount card, not as a gift card. This did not achieve the goal of getting new heads in beds and increased the average sale size, thereby increasing the effective commission innkeepers paid. Since Costco customers will no longer be gaming the system and redeeming five or more $100 cards to pay for an entire reservation, you won't be hit with high dollars on redemption as in the past. The effective commission rate should truly average in the upper single digits (8%-9%).
2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%. For every dollar in gift cards you sell, you keep 20 cents, with absolutely no risk or upfront costs of any kind. Your guests will be looking to buy holiday gifts for their loved ones - why not encourage them to skip a trip to the mall and purchase the gift of a getaway from you? Your income from selling the cards will easily offset the cost of the commission owed to us on redeemed cards. If you're not yet participating in our resellers program, log in to your Home Base and sign up today!
3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a 15%-20% scale. During the past two years, we have significantly increased the quality and distribution of our gift cards, with the result that exposure for the B&B industry is significantly enhanced along with reservations for our member innkeepers, but our expenses have escalated significantly as well:
  • Paper certificates have been replaced by plastic cards, with a choice of over two dozen styles.
  • Free photo uploads allow consumers to customize gift cards with photos of their loved ones.
  • Internet mail orders are sent with a free 64-page inn directory.
  • Shipping is free on all orders, with free FedEx on orders of $100 and up.
  • An outside firm is paid to ensure full legal compliance with the labyrinth of state escheatment laws.
  • Cards (and card hangers) are printed and shipped to 20,000 retail locations.
  • A full-time sales person works to sell gift cards to corporate, premium and incentive distribution channels (Coca-Cola, IBM, Dell, etc.)
  • Advertising and PR programs include press releases and national advertising, including our second full-page ad in SkyMall magazine, with five million copies read by 155 million affluent passengers, in planes through December 2008.
  • We've had countless customers tell us how much they love this gift, and how they made their choice of where to stay based on which properties are in the program. (Click here to read customer reviews.)
New commission schedule: Starting October 1, 2008, the commission on the first $1,500 in redemptions in a calendar year will be 20%; on the next $3,500 it will be 17.5%; and on everything over $5,000 it will be 15%. The full 20% commission will be charged on all transactions, and a rebate check will be sent to innkeepers after the end of every calendar year for any amount due. The new commission structure will cost an average of $42 annually per property. Since the average gift card sale is $150 dollars and the average B&B stay is close to $350, the effective commission rate for the program is still under 10%. For the initial change in pricing, the term will run from October 1 through December 31, 2009 (15 months), so more properties will qualify for the lower rates.
4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with the following restriction on their use:
  • Special Costco.com/BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will be created, and only two cards will be allowed to be redeemed per stay (total value of $200), thereby capping your cost and ensuring that travelers do not show up and try to pay for an entire $600 stay with discounted cards.
  • Costco.com cards will be clearly labeled to differentiate them from regular BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
  • Gift cards cannot be used to pay for group functions. (This applies to all BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.)
Selling gift cards on Costco.com is quite different from selling in Costco warehouses. When you factor in the shipping price, the impact of the discount is minimal. Consumers are unlikely to purchase gift cards just for the discount, and the use restrictions provide additional protection. This should position these cards as a great "gift", not as a "discounted travel card".
In conclusion, we feel the results speak for themselves. This program generates tremendous exposure and new business for the entire B&B industry. A program with over 4,000 participating properties makes us competitive with giant chains like Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton. In addition, in terms of the consumer experience, having a high quality state-of-the-art gift card program that compares favorably with the gift cards of major bank and retail chains gives potential guests the confidence that their first B&B experience will be equally first-rate.
A high-end, professional gift card program with online and retail distribution, custom cards, free directories, free shipping, national full-page ads to drive sales, plus the staff to make it happen costs plenty, but we are confident that it's an excellent way for you to get new guests at no risk. Last but not least, please remember that in this currently shaky economy, paying a 20% commission on a portion of the revenue generated by a guest's stay is better than not having a reservation at all. In other words, similar to what we've long said about online reservations, it's better to have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
We very much hope you'll continue to participate in welcoming and selling BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
The directory of participating inns is going to press on October 10. If you feel that this optional program no longer works for you, please call our support team at 1-800-GO-B-AND-B as soon as possible, so we can omit your property from the next printed directory and so you won't get calls from folks wanting to use their gift card at your property.
We look forward to continuing to promote the B&B industry through the gift card program, and we thank you for your business..
WOW
wow.gif
short turn around/notice AND a 33% increase in the costs to the innkeeper??
[edited to improve clarity of the percentage]
.
And innkeepers have to be the bad guys to the guests, yet again. The guests will show up with cards in hand, having not read in any of four places that we don't take them - I will then be forced to either shut up and take it, turn the person away and lose the revenue, or have them pay another way and be pissed the entire time they are here. They will then write a lousy review on Tripadvisor, which is still the place where everyone goes for travel reviews no matter how hard bandb.com tries to make it not so. I wish I could get a refund for my remaining months on their directory - I would be off of there completely.
They will be pitching their woo on here soon, I'm sure, with their standard 80% of something is better than 100% of nothing. My experience in redeeming the gcs has been that 90% of the time they are used when I would be sold out anyway. So I'm paying 20% to get the other 80% of the 10% - using my redeemed gcs this year, I'm paying $320 to make $160. Does that make any kind of business sense to continue to do?
 
Here's what we received:
We are writing with important information about changes to the BedandBreakfast.com Gift Card Program, effective October 1, 2008.
Here's the information in a nutshell -- for complete details, please see below.
  1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses.
  2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%.
  3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a scale of 15%-20%, depending on the volume of redemptions.
  4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with restrictions on their use.
1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses. Allowing Costco to sell gift cards at a discount accomplished two important goals: it gave the B&B industry national exposure to affluent consumers, and it enabled us to get cards into 20,000 other retail outlets on a non-discounted basis. Unfortunately, many consumers started using them as a travel discount card, not as a gift card. This did not achieve the goal of getting new heads in beds and increased the average sale size, thereby increasing the effective commission innkeepers paid. Since Costco customers will no longer be gaming the system and redeeming five or more $100 cards to pay for an entire reservation, you won't be hit with high dollars on redemption as in the past. The effective commission rate should truly average in the upper single digits (8%-9%).
2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%. For every dollar in gift cards you sell, you keep 20 cents, with absolutely no risk or upfront costs of any kind. Your guests will be looking to buy holiday gifts for their loved ones - why not encourage them to skip a trip to the mall and purchase the gift of a getaway from you? Your income from selling the cards will easily offset the cost of the commission owed to us on redeemed cards. If you're not yet participating in our resellers program, log in to your Home Base and sign up today!
3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a 15%-20% scale. During the past two years, we have significantly increased the quality and distribution of our gift cards, with the result that exposure for the B&B industry is significantly enhanced along with reservations for our member innkeepers, but our expenses have escalated significantly as well:
  • Paper certificates have been replaced by plastic cards, with a choice of over two dozen styles.
  • Free photo uploads allow consumers to customize gift cards with photos of their loved ones.
  • Internet mail orders are sent with a free 64-page inn directory.
  • Shipping is free on all orders, with free FedEx on orders of $100 and up.
  • An outside firm is paid to ensure full legal compliance with the labyrinth of state escheatment laws.
  • Cards (and card hangers) are printed and shipped to 20,000 retail locations.
  • A full-time sales person works to sell gift cards to corporate, premium and incentive distribution channels (Coca-Cola, IBM, Dell, etc.)
  • Advertising and PR programs include press releases and national advertising, including our second full-page ad in SkyMall magazine, with five million copies read by 155 million affluent passengers, in planes through December 2008.
  • We've had countless customers tell us how much they love this gift, and how they made their choice of where to stay based on which properties are in the program. (Click here to read customer reviews.)
New commission schedule: Starting October 1, 2008, the commission on the first $1,500 in redemptions in a calendar year will be 20%; on the next $3,500 it will be 17.5%; and on everything over $5,000 it will be 15%. The full 20% commission will be charged on all transactions, and a rebate check will be sent to innkeepers after the end of every calendar year for any amount due. The new commission structure will cost an average of $42 annually per property. Since the average gift card sale is $150 dollars and the average B&B stay is close to $350, the effective commission rate for the program is still under 10%. For the initial change in pricing, the term will run from October 1 through December 31, 2009 (15 months), so more properties will qualify for the lower rates.
4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with the following restriction on their use:
  • Special Costco.com/BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will be created, and only two cards will be allowed to be redeemed per stay (total value of $200), thereby capping your cost and ensuring that travelers do not show up and try to pay for an entire $600 stay with discounted cards.
  • Costco.com cards will be clearly labeled to differentiate them from regular BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
  • Gift cards cannot be used to pay for group functions. (This applies to all BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.)
Selling gift cards on Costco.com is quite different from selling in Costco warehouses. When you factor in the shipping price, the impact of the discount is minimal. Consumers are unlikely to purchase gift cards just for the discount, and the use restrictions provide additional protection. This should position these cards as a great "gift", not as a "discounted travel card".
In conclusion, we feel the results speak for themselves. This program generates tremendous exposure and new business for the entire B&B industry. A program with over 4,000 participating properties makes us competitive with giant chains like Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton. In addition, in terms of the consumer experience, having a high quality state-of-the-art gift card program that compares favorably with the gift cards of major bank and retail chains gives potential guests the confidence that their first B&B experience will be equally first-rate.
A high-end, professional gift card program with online and retail distribution, custom cards, free directories, free shipping, national full-page ads to drive sales, plus the staff to make it happen costs plenty, but we are confident that it's an excellent way for you to get new guests at no risk. Last but not least, please remember that in this currently shaky economy, paying a 20% commission on a portion of the revenue generated by a guest's stay is better than not having a reservation at all. In other words, similar to what we've long said about online reservations, it's better to have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
We very much hope you'll continue to participate in welcoming and selling BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
The directory of participating inns is going to press on October 10. If you feel that this optional program no longer works for you, please call our support team at 1-800-GO-B-AND-B as soon as possible, so we can omit your property from the next printed directory and so you won't get calls from folks wanting to use their gift card at your property.
We look forward to continuing to promote the B&B industry through the gift card program, and we thank you for your business..
WOW
wow.gif
short turn around/notice AND a 33% increase in the costs to the innkeeper??
[edited to improve clarity of the percentage]
.
B&B.com reserves the right to change the terms of the program at any time, for any reason, to meet current market conditions. B&B.com will give a minimum of 7 days notice for any such significant program changes, and participants must notify B&B.com within 7 days if they want to discontinue participation in the program.
From the terms and conditions of the program. Most people got six days notice, and some of us got no notice at all.
 
Here's what we received:
We are writing with important information about changes to the BedandBreakfast.com Gift Card Program, effective October 1, 2008.
Here's the information in a nutshell -- for complete details, please see below.
  1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses.
  2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%.
  3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a scale of 15%-20%, depending on the volume of redemptions.
  4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with restrictions on their use.
1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses. Allowing Costco to sell gift cards at a discount accomplished two important goals: it gave the B&B industry national exposure to affluent consumers, and it enabled us to get cards into 20,000 other retail outlets on a non-discounted basis. Unfortunately, many consumers started using them as a travel discount card, not as a gift card. This did not achieve the goal of getting new heads in beds and increased the average sale size, thereby increasing the effective commission innkeepers paid. Since Costco customers will no longer be gaming the system and redeeming five or more $100 cards to pay for an entire reservation, you won't be hit with high dollars on redemption as in the past. The effective commission rate should truly average in the upper single digits (8%-9%).
2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%. For every dollar in gift cards you sell, you keep 20 cents, with absolutely no risk or upfront costs of any kind. Your guests will be looking to buy holiday gifts for their loved ones - why not encourage them to skip a trip to the mall and purchase the gift of a getaway from you? Your income from selling the cards will easily offset the cost of the commission owed to us on redeemed cards. If you're not yet participating in our resellers program, log in to your Home Base and sign up today!
3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a 15%-20% scale. During the past two years, we have significantly increased the quality and distribution of our gift cards, with the result that exposure for the B&B industry is significantly enhanced along with reservations for our member innkeepers, but our expenses have escalated significantly as well:
  • Paper certificates have been replaced by plastic cards, with a choice of over two dozen styles.
  • Free photo uploads allow consumers to customize gift cards with photos of their loved ones.
  • Internet mail orders are sent with a free 64-page inn directory.
  • Shipping is free on all orders, with free FedEx on orders of $100 and up.
  • An outside firm is paid to ensure full legal compliance with the labyrinth of state escheatment laws.
  • Cards (and card hangers) are printed and shipped to 20,000 retail locations.
  • A full-time sales person works to sell gift cards to corporate, premium and incentive distribution channels (Coca-Cola, IBM, Dell, etc.)
  • Advertising and PR programs include press releases and national advertising, including our second full-page ad in SkyMall magazine, with five million copies read by 155 million affluent passengers, in planes through December 2008.
  • We've had countless customers tell us how much they love this gift, and how they made their choice of where to stay based on which properties are in the program. (Click here to read customer reviews.)
New commission schedule: Starting October 1, 2008, the commission on the first $1,500 in redemptions in a calendar year will be 20%; on the next $3,500 it will be 17.5%; and on everything over $5,000 it will be 15%. The full 20% commission will be charged on all transactions, and a rebate check will be sent to innkeepers after the end of every calendar year for any amount due. The new commission structure will cost an average of $42 annually per property. Since the average gift card sale is $150 dollars and the average B&B stay is close to $350, the effective commission rate for the program is still under 10%. For the initial change in pricing, the term will run from October 1 through December 31, 2009 (15 months), so more properties will qualify for the lower rates.
4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with the following restriction on their use:
  • Special Costco.com/BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will be created, and only two cards will be allowed to be redeemed per stay (total value of $200), thereby capping your cost and ensuring that travelers do not show up and try to pay for an entire $600 stay with discounted cards.
  • Costco.com cards will be clearly labeled to differentiate them from regular BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
  • Gift cards cannot be used to pay for group functions. (This applies to all BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.)
Selling gift cards on Costco.com is quite different from selling in Costco warehouses. When you factor in the shipping price, the impact of the discount is minimal. Consumers are unlikely to purchase gift cards just for the discount, and the use restrictions provide additional protection. This should position these cards as a great "gift", not as a "discounted travel card".
In conclusion, we feel the results speak for themselves. This program generates tremendous exposure and new business for the entire B&B industry. A program with over 4,000 participating properties makes us competitive with giant chains like Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton. In addition, in terms of the consumer experience, having a high quality state-of-the-art gift card program that compares favorably with the gift cards of major bank and retail chains gives potential guests the confidence that their first B&B experience will be equally first-rate.
A high-end, professional gift card program with online and retail distribution, custom cards, free directories, free shipping, national full-page ads to drive sales, plus the staff to make it happen costs plenty, but we are confident that it's an excellent way for you to get new guests at no risk. Last but not least, please remember that in this currently shaky economy, paying a 20% commission on a portion of the revenue generated by a guest's stay is better than not having a reservation at all. In other words, similar to what we've long said about online reservations, it's better to have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
We very much hope you'll continue to participate in welcoming and selling BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
The directory of participating inns is going to press on October 10. If you feel that this optional program no longer works for you, please call our support team at 1-800-GO-B-AND-B as soon as possible, so we can omit your property from the next printed directory and so you won't get calls from folks wanting to use their gift card at your property.
We look forward to continuing to promote the B&B industry through the gift card program, and we thank you for your business..
WOW
wow.gif
short turn around/notice AND a 33% increase in the costs to the innkeeper??
[edited to improve clarity of the percentage]
.
B&B.com reserves the right to change the terms of the program at any time, for any reason, to meet current market conditions. B&B.com will give a minimum of 7 days notice for any such significant program changes, and participants must notify B&B.com within 7 days if they want to discontinue participation in the program.
From the terms and conditions of the program. Most people got six days notice, and some of us got no notice at all.
.
I had intended to stay out of this one as it does not affect me. But....here I am...I don't blame any of you for being upset. If I were in your shoes, I would be pulling out as well. I have several friends who have already complained to me and they will not be taking them any longer. Just cannot justify it.
 
Dear Innkeepers,
I am sorry to hear that some of you are angry about the announcement today. I agree we should have given you guys more notice. And we obviouly will make innkeepers whole on reservatiosn made before the announcement so the innkeepers only pay the 15%. Just let us know. We are not trying to trick anyone. We are trying to make sure that the gift card program that we launched years ago and that has become very succesful in driving reservations to innkeepers and getting the B&B industry exposure out there with other well known national brands in tens of thousands of locations continues to work for all parties involved.
We'd love to be able to continue to offer the program for members at 15%. Heck, we'd love to be able to offer the program for no cost at all to member properties. Unfortunately, that is just not realistic. I realize that this optional program will not work for all innkeepers. But it has to work for all parties involved to continue to be a succesful and sustainable program - innkeepers, consumers, retailers and us.
I will try and answer the various questions I have seen posted above in the thread as well as correct and/or clarify where information is incorrect.
- Winewitch - The fact that innkeepers can sell our gift cards at their property is not a "sales pitch". It's just another member benefit/way our members can make money without investing anything since we send the kit entirely at our expense. We have close to 1,000 properties signed up already. Innkeepers seem to like the simplicity, the fact that it costs nothing to get a kit, it is great for folks wanting to give gifts to friends and family far away, and we hadle all of the escheat issues.
- Samster - You are correct in why the increase is being implemented. If we want to sell these cards online, we have to be competitive. So regardless what some other innkeepers have said on this thread, that means we cannot send old-school sloppy gift certificates. We have to send first-rate high-quality gift "cards". No they are not cheap. The machines alone are $5,000 apeice (and you can't just have one in case it breaks) then you have the variable card and ribbon/ink costs. If Amazon, Zappos, and many other large internet sites are offering free shipping, it stands to reason that we will be more succesful getting more folks to give the gift of a B&B gift card if we also offer free shipping. You have seen the email posted in the thread by now and have seen many of the cost issues spelled out in a bullted list. What we did not clearly explain is that we spend the money to create the hundreds of thousands of gift cards that are required to be on the shelf next to American Airlines, Starbucks, and Hyatt. The stores do NOT buy these from us. They ONLY pay us if/when they sell a card. And guess what, they do not give us the shelf space for free. They want their 10-15%. So it seems unreasonable by anyone's terms that we should be expected to run a succesful and profitable program like this at 15% when the retailers alone take basically all of that...
- Yellowsocks - If the only discounted gift cards availlable are on Costco.com and even there they are restricted to a max of two certs, the system basically cannot be "gamed" and there will be very little reason for folks to purchase the discounted cards to save money. Also, many innkeepers like offering our cards since many of their guests want to offer a gift of a B&B stay to someone that is across the state or country and their own B&B gift card is therefore useless. Why do you say the 8-9% is "baloney"? If our average gift card sell is $150 (the part the innkeeper pays the commission on) and the average stay at a B&B is over $300, what would the effective commission rate be? Should be somewhere south of 10%...? I realize this is an "average" number though and will be different for every innkeeper...
- Jeanne - I am sorry but I do not follow your math. Can you please elaborate. You said 90% of the time the gift cards are used at your property you would have been sold out anyway. Are they from new guests that then return at other times that you were not sold out or refer friends and family to come when rooms would have otherwise gone vacant? Do you know what the lifetime value of a nw guest is for your property? And yes, the program is all about getting heads in beds. If you run through the math I think you will have a less emotioanl and more realistic understanding of our cost structure. Retail stores want to get paid. They do not buy the hundreds of thousands of cards we send them to put on their shelves. WE pay to design, print, attach and distribute them. Then when they do sell, the retailer wants their percentage (which I am sure you can guess is not in the single digits). When we sell them on our site for $150 average, we now have - a gift card (about $1), a full color cover directory llisting all properties in the program (about a $1), free shipping ($4-$12 - depending on the size of the order). So just looking at those three costs alone is between $6-$14 on an average order of $150 - so you can see where the extra 5% we are having to now charge is going. It's gone...
- Inncogneeto - We are confident there are enough innkeepers out there that will make a sound business decision and will understand that with what we are doing with the program, we have to be able to do it and make a fair return or it is simply not sustainable. Yes, we will unfortunately certainly lose some innkeepers. But the remaining properties on the program will be the ones that end up getting this new business from folks that received the tens of thousands of cards sold annually.
- Bree - Fair point. I can see where that is annoying and it is a little different than the online reservation program because you decide what inventory to put in that system. With the gift cards you have to take them anytime so it is not a fair comparison. I will make sure we remove that from further gift card correspondence.
- JBJ - The fact that consumers get the cards mailed for free and can upload photos and the rest of it has everything to do with you. If the product offering is not appealing to the consumer then we will sell none and you will not get any new guests from the program....? We are not selling our wares in a vacuum here folks. We are competing with everyone else out there marketing gift card products. Offering a second rate product is an option, but does not present the industry well and will not sell as well and therefore will not drive as much new business. We realize innkeepers are our bread and butter. That is why we invest the time and money we do into creating national programs of high-quality like this to drive you business. That's why we buy a full-page ads in national magazines promoting the program. It's why we were the first to pay innkeepers in a matter of days rather than weeks or months, all online and with no invoicing or cutting of checks. It's why we travel across the country to personally meet with you guys unlike every other directory out there that you hardly ever actauuly see... But let's be clear, if I cannot drive you any business because I do not meet consumers (your potential guests') needs, you would not be my customer. So my job is ot meet consumers needs so I can meet yours - all while trying to also meet mine. Neither can be succesful on it's own. Finally, the numbers are not speculative, they are simply averages (as that is all we have because we cleary do not know individual innkeeper's ADR/Occupancy/Avg # room nights per res, etc.). So yes, each innkeeper needs to do their own math.
- Irongate - To maintain the attractiveness of the program and make it competitive with other gift card products to ensure we sell the most possible, you cannot restrict it (other than what we are about to test on Costco.com).
- GillumHouse - Funny! We do our best to respond ot the market and innkeeper's needs with products and services that leverage technology, marketing and the internet. Not doing bathrooms yet...
- Winewitch - We care. if we didn't we would have changed the way we interacted with innkeepers long ago and not responded to posts like this and I wouldn't personally respond to every email I get, we wouldn't go to shows, etc.. I am sorry it is not more evident. I apologize the support folks did not spend more time with you. Hopefully you can see that notifying 4,000 innkeepers of material changes to the gift card program causes a bit of a spike in the support department. But they did speak to MANY innkeepers today and explained what's up in more detail and many innkeepers understood and stayed on the program. I am happy to have someone contact you or even call you myself Monday when I am back in town. Just let me know. The cards cost about $.60/each and we send each innkeeper 25 of them with a rack. The cost and inconvenience to innkeepers and the staff to get the cards returned and re-entered into the database to be assigned to another property, and repackaged with shrink-wrap - is simply more expensive than tossing them. Doesn't mean they are not valuable. Just a business decision that is is better just to have the innkeeper get rid of them than to return them... No tricks.
- HappyJacks - Thanks for the ideas. The directories were a result of the fact that we allow purchasers to post live feedback comments after they purchase a GC on BedandBreakfast.com and a printed directory was one of the main things folks wanted - and ultimately is not too expensive. It also serves to drive traffic to the site so folks can review the detailed listings with the domain name on the bottom of every single page. The basic shipping free with basic packaging is sort of what we do currently. But it can't be too basic or folks will not feel like it is a high-quality gift and sales will suffer and folks will not feel good about giving or getting the gift.. Go read our reviews on the site when you get a minute. People LOVE the program.
- JBJ - So you feel we should not do all we can to help innkeepers get reviews on a site where consumers are looking for inns (and reviews)? I'd LOVE to cut that program and not have to deal with reviews at all. Believe me that hey are no more fun for us than they are for you. They take a LOT of time and money. But the alternative is for us not to meet the needs of your potential guests so the consumers do not find enough reviews on BBCOM and go to TripAdvisor where they can easily find and book a "hotel" instead. We also explained how easy it is for innkeepers to add a link to their specific review page on our site from their own website. This is WAY less expensive and helps the innkeeper get WAY more reviews. But the fact is that we still get loads of reviews via the Business Reply Cards so many many innkeepers seem to love them. I am having a bit of trouble following the logic that by doing all we can to help our members get ratings so they will get more business - we are bad...
- Swirt - Absolutely correct. That's always been the problem with print. That's also a reason we mention in the email for any innkeeper that would like out of the program to notify us by a date 10 days or so from now so we can be sure to remove them from the book. Again, guys - I'd love to not have to print a book. But consumers are still asking for them with a gift card purchase. Also makes the gift a "little" nicer than just a "card"...? WE also mentioned clearly in th edirectory to go online for the latest and most up-to-date list.
- GillumHouse - WE have ALWAYS advocated looking at your ROI. If you are not getting a fair returrn from your investment with us, we do not deserve your money. Period! I will be the first to say it. Just be sure to actually look at your data and make a logical decision, not an emotional one. I have to ask though, who do you gus expect to do these national publicity leads/PR campaigns, national gift card programs / national full page ads / deals with travel industry leaders to give innkeepers an opportunity to get exposure in the leading travel sites, etc...? Sorry, we are way more than just a directory. If a directory is all you are lookinng for, they are a dime a dozen. Be sure to check their traffic levels on Quantcast.com to compare the value they can deliver. Finally, I'd love to hear what we are "hammering" you on if you have a minute. I am not aware of us ever strong-arming any innkeepers to buy anything from us...Our products and services sell because we deliver great products at great value. You mentioned we have to take a look at who is being served and who is the driver... Do you really feel that by investing in the gift card program as we did, that we are not trying to drive more business to members? Do you feel the fact that we need to make a fair return on that investement is wrong? Have we done a poor job of explaing the real costs involved in a program like this? Is it not beneficial for the industry and our particapting members to have a first-class program out there?
I look forward to the dialog but I am out town until Monday so may be slow in responding...
Thanks for listening (uh... "reading")...
Sincerely,
Eric
 
Dear Innkeepers,
I am sorry to hear that some of you are angry about the announcement today. I agree we should have given you guys more notice. And we obviouly will make innkeepers whole on reservatiosn made before the announcement so the innkeepers only pay the 15%. Just let us know. We are not trying to trick anyone. We are trying to make sure that the gift card program that we launched years ago and that has become very succesful in driving reservations to innkeepers and getting the B&B industry exposure out there with other well known national brands in tens of thousands of locations continues to work for all parties involved.
We'd love to be able to continue to offer the program for members at 15%. Heck, we'd love to be able to offer the program for no cost at all to member properties. Unfortunately, that is just not realistic. I realize that this optional program will not work for all innkeepers. But it has to work for all parties involved to continue to be a succesful and sustainable program - innkeepers, consumers, retailers and us.
I will try and answer the various questions I have seen posted above in the thread as well as correct and/or clarify where information is incorrect.
- Winewitch - The fact that innkeepers can sell our gift cards at their property is not a "sales pitch". It's just another member benefit/way our members can make money without investing anything since we send the kit entirely at our expense. We have close to 1,000 properties signed up already. Innkeepers seem to like the simplicity, the fact that it costs nothing to get a kit, it is great for folks wanting to give gifts to friends and family far away, and we hadle all of the escheat issues.
- Samster - You are correct in why the increase is being implemented. If we want to sell these cards online, we have to be competitive. So regardless what some other innkeepers have said on this thread, that means we cannot send old-school sloppy gift certificates. We have to send first-rate high-quality gift "cards". No they are not cheap. The machines alone are $5,000 apeice (and you can't just have one in case it breaks) then you have the variable card and ribbon/ink costs. If Amazon, Zappos, and many other large internet sites are offering free shipping, it stands to reason that we will be more succesful getting more folks to give the gift of a B&B gift card if we also offer free shipping. You have seen the email posted in the thread by now and have seen many of the cost issues spelled out in a bullted list. What we did not clearly explain is that we spend the money to create the hundreds of thousands of gift cards that are required to be on the shelf next to American Airlines, Starbucks, and Hyatt. The stores do NOT buy these from us. They ONLY pay us if/when they sell a card. And guess what, they do not give us the shelf space for free. They want their 10-15%. So it seems unreasonable by anyone's terms that we should be expected to run a succesful and profitable program like this at 15% when the retailers alone take basically all of that...
- Yellowsocks - If the only discounted gift cards availlable are on Costco.com and even there they are restricted to a max of two certs, the system basically cannot be "gamed" and there will be very little reason for folks to purchase the discounted cards to save money. Also, many innkeepers like offering our cards since many of their guests want to offer a gift of a B&B stay to someone that is across the state or country and their own B&B gift card is therefore useless. Why do you say the 8-9% is "baloney"? If our average gift card sell is $150 (the part the innkeeper pays the commission on) and the average stay at a B&B is over $300, what would the effective commission rate be? Should be somewhere south of 10%...? I realize this is an "average" number though and will be different for every innkeeper...
- Jeanne - I am sorry but I do not follow your math. Can you please elaborate. You said 90% of the time the gift cards are used at your property you would have been sold out anyway. Are they from new guests that then return at other times that you were not sold out or refer friends and family to come when rooms would have otherwise gone vacant? Do you know what the lifetime value of a nw guest is for your property? And yes, the program is all about getting heads in beds. If you run through the math I think you will have a less emotioanl and more realistic understanding of our cost structure. Retail stores want to get paid. They do not buy the hundreds of thousands of cards we send them to put on their shelves. WE pay to design, print, attach and distribute them. Then when they do sell, the retailer wants their percentage (which I am sure you can guess is not in the single digits). When we sell them on our site for $150 average, we now have - a gift card (about $1), a full color cover directory llisting all properties in the program (about a $1), free shipping ($4-$12 - depending on the size of the order). So just looking at those three costs alone is between $6-$14 on an average order of $150 - so you can see where the extra 5% we are having to now charge is going. It's gone...
- Inncogneeto - We are confident there are enough innkeepers out there that will make a sound business decision and will understand that with what we are doing with the program, we have to be able to do it and make a fair return or it is simply not sustainable. Yes, we will unfortunately certainly lose some innkeepers. But the remaining properties on the program will be the ones that end up getting this new business from folks that received the tens of thousands of cards sold annually.
- Bree - Fair point. I can see where that is annoying and it is a little different than the online reservation program because you decide what inventory to put in that system. With the gift cards you have to take them anytime so it is not a fair comparison. I will make sure we remove that from further gift card correspondence.
- JBJ - The fact that consumers get the cards mailed for free and can upload photos and the rest of it has everything to do with you. If the product offering is not appealing to the consumer then we will sell none and you will not get any new guests from the program....? We are not selling our wares in a vacuum here folks. We are competing with everyone else out there marketing gift card products. Offering a second rate product is an option, but does not present the industry well and will not sell as well and therefore will not drive as much new business. We realize innkeepers are our bread and butter. That is why we invest the time and money we do into creating national programs of high-quality like this to drive you business. That's why we buy a full-page ads in national magazines promoting the program. It's why we were the first to pay innkeepers in a matter of days rather than weeks or months, all online and with no invoicing or cutting of checks. It's why we travel across the country to personally meet with you guys unlike every other directory out there that you hardly ever actauuly see... But let's be clear, if I cannot drive you any business because I do not meet consumers (your potential guests') needs, you would not be my customer. So my job is ot meet consumers needs so I can meet yours - all while trying to also meet mine. Neither can be succesful on it's own. Finally, the numbers are not speculative, they are simply averages (as that is all we have because we cleary do not know individual innkeeper's ADR/Occupancy/Avg # room nights per res, etc.). So yes, each innkeeper needs to do their own math.
- Irongate - To maintain the attractiveness of the program and make it competitive with other gift card products to ensure we sell the most possible, you cannot restrict it (other than what we are about to test on Costco.com).
- GillumHouse - Funny! We do our best to respond ot the market and innkeeper's needs with products and services that leverage technology, marketing and the internet. Not doing bathrooms yet...
- Winewitch - We care. if we didn't we would have changed the way we interacted with innkeepers long ago and not responded to posts like this and I wouldn't personally respond to every email I get, we wouldn't go to shows, etc.. I am sorry it is not more evident. I apologize the support folks did not spend more time with you. Hopefully you can see that notifying 4,000 innkeepers of material changes to the gift card program causes a bit of a spike in the support department. But they did speak to MANY innkeepers today and explained what's up in more detail and many innkeepers understood and stayed on the program. I am happy to have someone contact you or even call you myself Monday when I am back in town. Just let me know. The cards cost about $.60/each and we send each innkeeper 25 of them with a rack. The cost and inconvenience to innkeepers and the staff to get the cards returned and re-entered into the database to be assigned to another property, and repackaged with shrink-wrap - is simply more expensive than tossing them. Doesn't mean they are not valuable. Just a business decision that is is better just to have the innkeeper get rid of them than to return them... No tricks.
- HappyJacks - Thanks for the ideas. The directories were a result of the fact that we allow purchasers to post live feedback comments after they purchase a GC on BedandBreakfast.com and a printed directory was one of the main things folks wanted - and ultimately is not too expensive. It also serves to drive traffic to the site so folks can review the detailed listings with the domain name on the bottom of every single page. The basic shipping free with basic packaging is sort of what we do currently. But it can't be too basic or folks will not feel like it is a high-quality gift and sales will suffer and folks will not feel good about giving or getting the gift.. Go read our reviews on the site when you get a minute. People LOVE the program.
- JBJ - So you feel we should not do all we can to help innkeepers get reviews on a site where consumers are looking for inns (and reviews)? I'd LOVE to cut that program and not have to deal with reviews at all. Believe me that hey are no more fun for us than they are for you. They take a LOT of time and money. But the alternative is for us not to meet the needs of your potential guests so the consumers do not find enough reviews on BBCOM and go to TripAdvisor where they can easily find and book a "hotel" instead. We also explained how easy it is for innkeepers to add a link to their specific review page on our site from their own website. This is WAY less expensive and helps the innkeeper get WAY more reviews. But the fact is that we still get loads of reviews via the Business Reply Cards so many many innkeepers seem to love them. I am having a bit of trouble following the logic that by doing all we can to help our members get ratings so they will get more business - we are bad...
- Swirt - Absolutely correct. That's always been the problem with print. That's also a reason we mention in the email for any innkeeper that would like out of the program to notify us by a date 10 days or so from now so we can be sure to remove them from the book. Again, guys - I'd love to not have to print a book. But consumers are still asking for them with a gift card purchase. Also makes the gift a "little" nicer than just a "card"...? WE also mentioned clearly in th edirectory to go online for the latest and most up-to-date list.
- GillumHouse - WE have ALWAYS advocated looking at your ROI. If you are not getting a fair returrn from your investment with us, we do not deserve your money. Period! I will be the first to say it. Just be sure to actually look at your data and make a logical decision, not an emotional one. I have to ask though, who do you gus expect to do these national publicity leads/PR campaigns, national gift card programs / national full page ads / deals with travel industry leaders to give innkeepers an opportunity to get exposure in the leading travel sites, etc...? Sorry, we are way more than just a directory. If a directory is all you are lookinng for, they are a dime a dozen. Be sure to check their traffic levels on Quantcast.com to compare the value they can deliver. Finally, I'd love to hear what we are "hammering" you on if you have a minute. I am not aware of us ever strong-arming any innkeepers to buy anything from us...Our products and services sell because we deliver great products at great value. You mentioned we have to take a look at who is being served and who is the driver... Do you really feel that by investing in the gift card program as we did, that we are not trying to drive more business to members? Do you feel the fact that we need to make a fair return on that investement is wrong? Have we done a poor job of explaing the real costs involved in a program like this? Is it not beneficial for the industry and our particapting members to have a first-class program out there?
I look forward to the dialog but I am out town until Monday so may be slow in responding...
Thanks for listening (uh... "reading")...
Sincerely,
Eric.
Eric Goldreyer said:
Why do you say the 8-9% is "baloney"? If our average gift card sell is $150 (the part the innkeeper pays the commission on) and the average stay at a B&B is over $300, what would the effective commission rate be? Should be somewhere south of 10%...? I realize this is an "average" number though and will be different for every innkeeper...

Which answers your own question about why I say 8-9% is baloney. If you prefer, I'll say that 8-9% is wishful thinking that you've convinced yourself. The average stay at my B&B is no where near $300.
Eric said:
I have to ask though, who do you gus expect to do these national publicity leads/PR campaigns, national gift card programs / national full page ads / deals with travel industry leaders to give innkeepers an opportunity to get exposure in the leading travel sites, etc...?
Well, there's PAII, for one...
Eric said:
Have we done a poor job of explaing the real costs involved in a program like this? Is it not beneficial for the industry and our particapting members to have a first-class program out there?
Oh, you've explained your costs... but you seem to forget we have ours, too.
You know, I shop at Wal-Mart all the time, and I've never once seen a GC on the rack... and I look for them. I've never once seen a full-page ad. I've never read an article about a small, cozy B&B... they're always about larger inns with fancy schmancy amenities.
I am interested in knowing more about the "deals with travel industry leaders to give innkeepers an opporunity to get exposure in the leading travel sites." What's that about?
=)
Kk.
 
Here's what we received:
We are writing with important information about changes to the BedandBreakfast.com Gift Card Program, effective October 1, 2008.
Here's the information in a nutshell -- for complete details, please see below.
  1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses.
  2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%.
  3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a scale of 15%-20%, depending on the volume of redemptions.
  4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with restrictions on their use.
1. BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will no longer be sold in Costco warehouses. Allowing Costco to sell gift cards at a discount accomplished two important goals: it gave the B&B industry national exposure to affluent consumers, and it enabled us to get cards into 20,000 other retail outlets on a non-discounted basis. Unfortunately, many consumers started using them as a travel discount card, not as a gift card. This did not achieve the goal of getting new heads in beds and increased the average sale size, thereby increasing the effective commission innkeepers paid. Since Costco customers will no longer be gaming the system and redeeming five or more $100 cards to pay for an entire reservation, you won't be hit with high dollars on redemption as in the past. The effective commission rate should truly average in the upper single digits (8%-9%).
2. If you sell BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission you earn will increase from 15% to 20%. For every dollar in gift cards you sell, you keep 20 cents, with absolutely no risk or upfront costs of any kind. Your guests will be looking to buy holiday gifts for their loved ones - why not encourage them to skip a trip to the mall and purchase the gift of a getaway from you? Your income from selling the cards will easily offset the cost of the commission owed to us on redeemed cards. If you're not yet participating in our resellers program, log in to your Home Base and sign up today!
3. If you welcome BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards at your inn, the commission retained by BedandBreakfast.com will increase from 15% to a 15%-20% scale. During the past two years, we have significantly increased the quality and distribution of our gift cards, with the result that exposure for the B&B industry is significantly enhanced along with reservations for our member innkeepers, but our expenses have escalated significantly as well:
  • Paper certificates have been replaced by plastic cards, with a choice of over two dozen styles.
  • Free photo uploads allow consumers to customize gift cards with photos of their loved ones.
  • Internet mail orders are sent with a free 64-page inn directory.
  • Shipping is free on all orders, with free FedEx on orders of $100 and up.
  • An outside firm is paid to ensure full legal compliance with the labyrinth of state escheatment laws.
  • Cards (and card hangers) are printed and shipped to 20,000 retail locations.
  • A full-time sales person works to sell gift cards to corporate, premium and incentive distribution channels (Coca-Cola, IBM, Dell, etc.)
  • Advertising and PR programs include press releases and national advertising, including our second full-page ad in SkyMall magazine, with five million copies read by 155 million affluent passengers, in planes through December 2008.
  • We've had countless customers tell us how much they love this gift, and how they made their choice of where to stay based on which properties are in the program. (Click here to read customer reviews.)
New commission schedule: Starting October 1, 2008, the commission on the first $1,500 in redemptions in a calendar year will be 20%; on the next $3,500 it will be 17.5%; and on everything over $5,000 it will be 15%. The full 20% commission will be charged on all transactions, and a rebate check will be sent to innkeepers after the end of every calendar year for any amount due. The new commission structure will cost an average of $42 annually per property. Since the average gift card sale is $150 dollars and the average B&B stay is close to $350, the effective commission rate for the program is still under 10%. For the initial change in pricing, the term will run from October 1 through December 31, 2009 (15 months), so more properties will qualify for the lower rates.
4. Gift cards will continue to be sold on a test basis at Costco.com with the following restriction on their use:
  • Special Costco.com/BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards will be created, and only two cards will be allowed to be redeemed per stay (total value of $200), thereby capping your cost and ensuring that travelers do not show up and try to pay for an entire $600 stay with discounted cards.
  • Costco.com cards will be clearly labeled to differentiate them from regular BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
  • Gift cards cannot be used to pay for group functions. (This applies to all BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.)
Selling gift cards on Costco.com is quite different from selling in Costco warehouses. When you factor in the shipping price, the impact of the discount is minimal. Consumers are unlikely to purchase gift cards just for the discount, and the use restrictions provide additional protection. This should position these cards as a great "gift", not as a "discounted travel card".
In conclusion, we feel the results speak for themselves. This program generates tremendous exposure and new business for the entire B&B industry. A program with over 4,000 participating properties makes us competitive with giant chains like Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton. In addition, in terms of the consumer experience, having a high quality state-of-the-art gift card program that compares favorably with the gift cards of major bank and retail chains gives potential guests the confidence that their first B&B experience will be equally first-rate.
A high-end, professional gift card program with online and retail distribution, custom cards, free directories, free shipping, national full-page ads to drive sales, plus the staff to make it happen costs plenty, but we are confident that it's an excellent way for you to get new guests at no risk. Last but not least, please remember that in this currently shaky economy, paying a 20% commission on a portion of the revenue generated by a guest's stay is better than not having a reservation at all. In other words, similar to what we've long said about online reservations, it's better to have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
We very much hope you'll continue to participate in welcoming and selling BedandBreakfast.com Gift Cards.
The directory of participating inns is going to press on October 10. If you feel that this optional program no longer works for you, please call our support team at 1-800-GO-B-AND-B as soon as possible, so we can omit your property from the next printed directory and so you won't get calls from folks wanting to use their gift card at your property.
We look forward to continuing to promote the B&B industry through the gift card program, and we thank you for your business..
WOW
wow.gif
short turn around/notice AND a 33% increase in the costs to the innkeeper??
[edited to improve clarity of the percentage]
.
B&B.com reserves the right to change the terms of the program at any time, for any reason, to meet current market conditions. B&B.com will give a minimum of 7 days notice for any such significant program changes, and participants must notify B&B.com within 7 days if they want to discontinue participation in the program.
From the terms and conditions of the program. Most people got six days notice, and some of us got no notice at all.
.
I have gotten no notice via my email yet. I wonder if they consider notifying you in your member inbox as notification? Hmmm.... I will go check & see if anything is there.
 
Dear Innkeepers,
I am sorry to hear that some of you are angry about the announcement today. I agree we should have given you guys more notice. And we obviouly will make innkeepers whole on reservatiosn made before the announcement so the innkeepers only pay the 15%. Just let us know. We are not trying to trick anyone. We are trying to make sure that the gift card program that we launched years ago and that has become very succesful in driving reservations to innkeepers and getting the B&B industry exposure out there with other well known national brands in tens of thousands of locations continues to work for all parties involved.
We'd love to be able to continue to offer the program for members at 15%. Heck, we'd love to be able to offer the program for no cost at all to member properties. Unfortunately, that is just not realistic. I realize that this optional program will not work for all innkeepers. But it has to work for all parties involved to continue to be a succesful and sustainable program - innkeepers, consumers, retailers and us.
I will try and answer the various questions I have seen posted above in the thread as well as correct and/or clarify where information is incorrect.
- Winewitch - The fact that innkeepers can sell our gift cards at their property is not a "sales pitch". It's just another member benefit/way our members can make money without investing anything since we send the kit entirely at our expense. We have close to 1,000 properties signed up already. Innkeepers seem to like the simplicity, the fact that it costs nothing to get a kit, it is great for folks wanting to give gifts to friends and family far away, and we hadle all of the escheat issues.
- Samster - You are correct in why the increase is being implemented. If we want to sell these cards online, we have to be competitive. So regardless what some other innkeepers have said on this thread, that means we cannot send old-school sloppy gift certificates. We have to send first-rate high-quality gift "cards". No they are not cheap. The machines alone are $5,000 apeice (and you can't just have one in case it breaks) then you have the variable card and ribbon/ink costs. If Amazon, Zappos, and many other large internet sites are offering free shipping, it stands to reason that we will be more succesful getting more folks to give the gift of a B&B gift card if we also offer free shipping. You have seen the email posted in the thread by now and have seen many of the cost issues spelled out in a bullted list. What we did not clearly explain is that we spend the money to create the hundreds of thousands of gift cards that are required to be on the shelf next to American Airlines, Starbucks, and Hyatt. The stores do NOT buy these from us. They ONLY pay us if/when they sell a card. And guess what, they do not give us the shelf space for free. They want their 10-15%. So it seems unreasonable by anyone's terms that we should be expected to run a succesful and profitable program like this at 15% when the retailers alone take basically all of that...
- Yellowsocks - If the only discounted gift cards availlable are on Costco.com and even there they are restricted to a max of two certs, the system basically cannot be "gamed" and there will be very little reason for folks to purchase the discounted cards to save money. Also, many innkeepers like offering our cards since many of their guests want to offer a gift of a B&B stay to someone that is across the state or country and their own B&B gift card is therefore useless. Why do you say the 8-9% is "baloney"? If our average gift card sell is $150 (the part the innkeeper pays the commission on) and the average stay at a B&B is over $300, what would the effective commission rate be? Should be somewhere south of 10%...? I realize this is an "average" number though and will be different for every innkeeper...
- Jeanne - I am sorry but I do not follow your math. Can you please elaborate. You said 90% of the time the gift cards are used at your property you would have been sold out anyway. Are they from new guests that then return at other times that you were not sold out or refer friends and family to come when rooms would have otherwise gone vacant? Do you know what the lifetime value of a nw guest is for your property? And yes, the program is all about getting heads in beds. If you run through the math I think you will have a less emotioanl and more realistic understanding of our cost structure. Retail stores want to get paid. They do not buy the hundreds of thousands of cards we send them to put on their shelves. WE pay to design, print, attach and distribute them. Then when they do sell, the retailer wants their percentage (which I am sure you can guess is not in the single digits). When we sell them on our site for $150 average, we now have - a gift card (about $1), a full color cover directory llisting all properties in the program (about a $1), free shipping ($4-$12 - depending on the size of the order). So just looking at those three costs alone is between $6-$14 on an average order of $150 - so you can see where the extra 5% we are having to now charge is going. It's gone...
- Inncogneeto - We are confident there are enough innkeepers out there that will make a sound business decision and will understand that with what we are doing with the program, we have to be able to do it and make a fair return or it is simply not sustainable. Yes, we will unfortunately certainly lose some innkeepers. But the remaining properties on the program will be the ones that end up getting this new business from folks that received the tens of thousands of cards sold annually.
- Bree - Fair point. I can see where that is annoying and it is a little different than the online reservation program because you decide what inventory to put in that system. With the gift cards you have to take them anytime so it is not a fair comparison. I will make sure we remove that from further gift card correspondence.
- JBJ - The fact that consumers get the cards mailed for free and can upload photos and the rest of it has everything to do with you. If the product offering is not appealing to the consumer then we will sell none and you will not get any new guests from the program....? We are not selling our wares in a vacuum here folks. We are competing with everyone else out there marketing gift card products. Offering a second rate product is an option, but does not present the industry well and will not sell as well and therefore will not drive as much new business. We realize innkeepers are our bread and butter. That is why we invest the time and money we do into creating national programs of high-quality like this to drive you business. That's why we buy a full-page ads in national magazines promoting the program. It's why we were the first to pay innkeepers in a matter of days rather than weeks or months, all online and with no invoicing or cutting of checks. It's why we travel across the country to personally meet with you guys unlike every other directory out there that you hardly ever actauuly see... But let's be clear, if I cannot drive you any business because I do not meet consumers (your potential guests') needs, you would not be my customer. So my job is ot meet consumers needs so I can meet yours - all while trying to also meet mine. Neither can be succesful on it's own. Finally, the numbers are not speculative, they are simply averages (as that is all we have because we cleary do not know individual innkeeper's ADR/Occupancy/Avg # room nights per res, etc.). So yes, each innkeeper needs to do their own math.
- Irongate - To maintain the attractiveness of the program and make it competitive with other gift card products to ensure we sell the most possible, you cannot restrict it (other than what we are about to test on Costco.com).
- GillumHouse - Funny! We do our best to respond ot the market and innkeeper's needs with products and services that leverage technology, marketing and the internet. Not doing bathrooms yet...
- Winewitch - We care. if we didn't we would have changed the way we interacted with innkeepers long ago and not responded to posts like this and I wouldn't personally respond to every email I get, we wouldn't go to shows, etc.. I am sorry it is not more evident. I apologize the support folks did not spend more time with you. Hopefully you can see that notifying 4,000 innkeepers of material changes to the gift card program causes a bit of a spike in the support department. But they did speak to MANY innkeepers today and explained what's up in more detail and many innkeepers understood and stayed on the program. I am happy to have someone contact you or even call you myself Monday when I am back in town. Just let me know. The cards cost about $.60/each and we send each innkeeper 25 of them with a rack. The cost and inconvenience to innkeepers and the staff to get the cards returned and re-entered into the database to be assigned to another property, and repackaged with shrink-wrap - is simply more expensive than tossing them. Doesn't mean they are not valuable. Just a business decision that is is better just to have the innkeeper get rid of them than to return them... No tricks.
- HappyJacks - Thanks for the ideas. The directories were a result of the fact that we allow purchasers to post live feedback comments after they purchase a GC on BedandBreakfast.com and a printed directory was one of the main things folks wanted - and ultimately is not too expensive. It also serves to drive traffic to the site so folks can review the detailed listings with the domain name on the bottom of every single page. The basic shipping free with basic packaging is sort of what we do currently. But it can't be too basic or folks will not feel like it is a high-quality gift and sales will suffer and folks will not feel good about giving or getting the gift.. Go read our reviews on the site when you get a minute. People LOVE the program.
- JBJ - So you feel we should not do all we can to help innkeepers get reviews on a site where consumers are looking for inns (and reviews)? I'd LOVE to cut that program and not have to deal with reviews at all. Believe me that hey are no more fun for us than they are for you. They take a LOT of time and money. But the alternative is for us not to meet the needs of your potential guests so the consumers do not find enough reviews on BBCOM and go to TripAdvisor where they can easily find and book a "hotel" instead. We also explained how easy it is for innkeepers to add a link to their specific review page on our site from their own website. This is WAY less expensive and helps the innkeeper get WAY more reviews. But the fact is that we still get loads of reviews via the Business Reply Cards so many many innkeepers seem to love them. I am having a bit of trouble following the logic that by doing all we can to help our members get ratings so they will get more business - we are bad...
- Swirt - Absolutely correct. That's always been the problem with print. That's also a reason we mention in the email for any innkeeper that would like out of the program to notify us by a date 10 days or so from now so we can be sure to remove them from the book. Again, guys - I'd love to not have to print a book. But consumers are still asking for them with a gift card purchase. Also makes the gift a "little" nicer than just a "card"...? WE also mentioned clearly in th edirectory to go online for the latest and most up-to-date list.
- GillumHouse - WE have ALWAYS advocated looking at your ROI. If you are not getting a fair returrn from your investment with us, we do not deserve your money. Period! I will be the first to say it. Just be sure to actually look at your data and make a logical decision, not an emotional one. I have to ask though, who do you gus expect to do these national publicity leads/PR campaigns, national gift card programs / national full page ads / deals with travel industry leaders to give innkeepers an opportunity to get exposure in the leading travel sites, etc...? Sorry, we are way more than just a directory. If a directory is all you are lookinng for, they are a dime a dozen. Be sure to check their traffic levels on Quantcast.com to compare the value they can deliver. Finally, I'd love to hear what we are "hammering" you on if you have a minute. I am not aware of us ever strong-arming any innkeepers to buy anything from us...Our products and services sell because we deliver great products at great value. You mentioned we have to take a look at who is being served and who is the driver... Do you really feel that by investing in the gift card program as we did, that we are not trying to drive more business to members? Do you feel the fact that we need to make a fair return on that investement is wrong? Have we done a poor job of explaing the real costs involved in a program like this? Is it not beneficial for the industry and our particapting members to have a first-class program out there?
I look forward to the dialog but I am out town until Monday so may be slow in responding...
Thanks for listening (uh... "reading")...
Sincerely,
Eric.
Eric Goldreyer said:
Why do you say the 8-9% is "baloney"? If our average gift card sell is $150 (the part the innkeeper pays the commission on) and the average stay at a B&B is over $300, what would the effective commission rate be? Should be somewhere south of 10%...? I realize this is an "average" number though and will be different for every innkeeper...

Which answers your own question about why I say 8-9% is baloney. If you prefer, I'll say that 8-9% is wishful thinking that you've convinced yourself. The average stay at my B&B is no where near $300.
Eric said:
I have to ask though, who do you gus expect to do these national publicity leads/PR campaigns, national gift card programs / national full page ads / deals with travel industry leaders to give innkeepers an opportunity to get exposure in the leading travel sites, etc...?
Well, there's PAII, for one...
Eric said:
Have we done a poor job of explaing the real costs involved in a program like this? Is it not beneficial for the industry and our particapting members to have a first-class program out there?
Oh, you've explained your costs... but you seem to forget we have ours, too.
You know, I shop at Wal-Mart all the time, and I've never once seen a GC on the rack... and I look for them. I've never once seen a full-page ad. I've never read an article about a small, cozy B&B... they're always about larger inns with fancy schmancy amenities.
I am interested in knowing more about the "deals with travel industry leaders to give innkeepers an opporunity to get exposure in the leading travel sites." What's that about?
=)
Kk.
.
Exactly! The fancy, schmancy in big tourist areas get the attention and write-ups. The off-the-beaten path gem is just as nice and perhaps even friendlier to the guests because they are small but rarely ever get a mention in the big-time articles. BUT we can be expected to pay the same big-time rates as we are told - go away kid, you bother me.
We bust our buns to make things as nice in our small inns as the big ones are. And it seems that only one of the Directories is constantly coming up with more things for us to buy from them and telling us we should be grateful to them for taking our money. The others do not seem to be as grabby but iloveinns does seem to do a lot of press releases to promote the industry without telling us how grateful we should be - ka-ching!
Since Eric obviously is reading this thread, he should be aware that I resent being told how grateful I should be to his organization and how I should not question their policies. Keep talking down to me. I am no longer a start-up. And as has been pointed out, economics may hit us in 2009 and belt-tightening may happen. Do not think for one moment this means I will be doing less marketing - I will probably do more and for what I pay you, Eric, I can do ads in a more targeted market that may do me better (maybe not, but at least they respect me - I know this because we have talked and they have been very helpful and not condescending).
I am one of the people who is giving content to your web site. We were in a circle of dependence on each other - we list to give content, you provide a location for people to find us, and the people book. This works as long as everyone respects each other and their need for each other. Methinks the coin in one pocket has taken the circle out of round.
 
Yellowsocks wrote:
Eric Goldreyer wrote:
Why do you say the 8-9% is "baloney"? If our average gift card sell is $150 (the part the innkeeper pays the commission on) and the average stay at a B&B is over $300, what would the effective commission rate be? Should be somewhere south of 10%...? I realize this is an "average" number though and will be different for every innkeeper...Which answers your own question about why I say 8-9% is baloney. If you prefer, I'll say that 8-9% is wishful thinking that you've convinced yourself. The average stay at my B&B is no where near $300.
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I was not referring to your specific property or anyone else's. As I stated I was using hard data - our average sell ($150) and the industry's ADR ($172 or so). So it is not baloney.
We realize that innkeeper's have costs. That doesn't mean are willing to subsidize them by losing money on a program to drive them business. Your guests have costs as well. Do you take that into account in YOUR pricing? We are in business to drive business to Inns and we need to make a positive return on our investement.

Wal-Mart - I assume you shop at the same one or two walmarts all the time and that you don't drive all around checking out different ones. We are in about 400 out of nearly 2,000. So it is not suprising to me that you have not seen us in a WalMart.

Full-page ads - Check out the Oct-Dec issue of SkyMall magazine, page 9. Sits in planes flown by more than 150,000,000 people over three months during the busiest gift time of the year.

The "deals with travel industry leaders to give innkeepers an opporunity to get exposure in the leading travel sites' refers to the exact type of thing I am doing right now. I am in Las vegas at the EyeForTravel conference meeting with companies to get our member properties more visibility on other top travel sites. I don't see any other B&B directories doing anything like that. We actually have 2 full time folks that work on business development to get more exposure for our members.

Eric
 
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