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paulavery

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http://www.iloveinns.com/bandbdirectories.htm
"And this isn't just Scott saying this, many high end SEO people are saying that Google optmization is all about getting high-quality citations and links. These experts highly recommend being on directories within your market. A recent webinar put on by InnSideOut Solutions recommended the same course of action for getting to the top of Google and Google Places.
Read more: http://www.iloveinns.com/bandbdirectories.htm#ixzz1CMDYC2mM"




Wow! ILOVEINNs is taking a big risk. Putting this kind of verbage (links, optmization) on a page is almost like poking Google with a stick and daring Google to mess with you.... and in this case I'd bet on Google.

What do people here think?
 

JBloggs

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Maybe he can whisper his response. Sheesh, sorry maybe I should not watch with a mouthful of corn nuts...

Links are important. I believe we need to be connected with a few of them, not all though, we need to determine which are the best bang for our link-worthy buck.
Paul I would like to hear what YOU have to say on this topic too.
 

Breakfast Diva

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Sorry, but I Love Inns is driving me crazy. I was with them for 1 year as a trial. NOTHING! I don't care how many click-throughs I got, I was using superstatz and could tell where my online reservations came from (90% of my reservations) and nothing.
They have been calling me to rejoin, sending numerous e-mails and I had to tell them just last week to LEAVE ME ALONE. Geez....they're like a pit bull.
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased.
 

muirford

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Sorry, but I Love Inns is driving me crazy. I was with them for 1 year as a trial. NOTHING! I don't care how many click-throughs I got, I was using superstatz and could tell where my online reservations came from (90% of my reservations) and nothing.
They have been calling me to rejoin, sending numerous e-mails and I had to tell them just last week to LEAVE ME ALONE. Geez....they're like a pit bull.
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased..
Breakfast Diva said:
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased.
I always laugh when I see that his is on his own top ten list to belong to. I've never yet seen it show up in a google search. I'm sure he would argue with me about that, so let me put the disclaimer out that I am speaking of my own experience; your mileage may vary.
It's been known for a long time that Google gives you more credit for high-quality links than for low-quality links. That's why no one recommends link farms to help your SEO. Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need, or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another. I would like to hear an SEO expert discuss that.
 

Alibi Ike

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I think we all get that we need incoming links from well-respected sources. But, that's what the directories prey on. 'You need to have these links. One reservation from this link will pay for it. Buy it now before it's too late.'
I read someone else's blog post the other day about this. And I wish I could remember where and who! She calculated that if she signed up with everyone who called it would have cost her £60,000 to do it.
I don't think anyone drops a directory without some reason. Here's a question- how valuable is an incoming link to your site if NO ONE ever clicks it? Sure, it sits there always available for someone to click on it, but does Google calculate that? It is essentially a link to nowhere if it is never used.
No one would advocate wholesale dropping of directories. But, judicious pruning of inactive directories makes sense. Why continue to pay $200 for a link? Is a link really worth $200+ if it brings in no business? Does it really keep your listing way up there? There is no proof of that statement. Who knows what other things are going on with inns that drop directories. Maybe that's the only incoming link they had. Maybe they changed a lot of web stuff at the same time that caused them grief.
 

JBloggs

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Sorry, but I Love Inns is driving me crazy. I was with them for 1 year as a trial. NOTHING! I don't care how many click-throughs I got, I was using superstatz and could tell where my online reservations came from (90% of my reservations) and nothing.
They have been calling me to rejoin, sending numerous e-mails and I had to tell them just last week to LEAVE ME ALONE. Geez....they're like a pit bull.
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased..
Breakfast Diva said:
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased.
I always laugh when I see that his is on his own top ten list to belong to. I've never yet seen it show up in a google search. I'm sure he would argue with me about that, so let me put the disclaimer out that I am speaking of my own experience; your mileage may vary.
It's been known for a long time that Google gives you more credit for high-quality links than for low-quality links. That's why no one recommends link farms to help your SEO. Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need, or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another. I would like to hear an SEO expert discuss that.
.
muirford said:
I would like to hear an SEO expert discuss that.
[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 0)]I would like to hear <ANOTHER> SEO expert discuss that. :)[/COLOR]
 

JBloggs

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I think we all get that we need incoming links from well-respected sources. But, that's what the directories prey on. 'You need to have these links. One reservation from this link will pay for it. Buy it now before it's too late.'
I read someone else's blog post the other day about this. And I wish I could remember where and who! She calculated that if she signed up with everyone who called it would have cost her £60,000 to do it.
I don't think anyone drops a directory without some reason. Here's a question- how valuable is an incoming link to your site if NO ONE ever clicks it? Sure, it sits there always available for someone to click on it, but does Google calculate that? It is essentially a link to nowhere if it is never used.
No one would advocate wholesale dropping of directories. But, judicious pruning of inactive directories makes sense. Why continue to pay $200 for a link? Is a link really worth $200+ if it brings in no business? Does it really keep your listing way up there? There is no proof of that statement. Who knows what other things are going on with inns that drop directories. Maybe that's the only incoming link they had. Maybe they changed a lot of web stuff at the same time that caused them grief..
If I subscribed to every call and email I have had JUST THIS WEEK it would be in the thousands! If I agreed with these "experts" and bought what they were selling. I would be out on the street in a heartbeat...
 

swirt

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Sorry, but I Love Inns is driving me crazy. I was with them for 1 year as a trial. NOTHING! I don't care how many click-throughs I got, I was using superstatz and could tell where my online reservations came from (90% of my reservations) and nothing.
They have been calling me to rejoin, sending numerous e-mails and I had to tell them just last week to LEAVE ME ALONE. Geez....they're like a pit bull.
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased..
Breakfast Diva said:
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased.
I always laugh when I see that his is on his own top ten list to belong to. I've never yet seen it show up in a google search. I'm sure he would argue with me about that, so let me put the disclaimer out that I am speaking of my own experience; your mileage may vary.
It's been known for a long time that Google gives you more credit for high-quality links than for low-quality links. That's why no one recommends link farms to help your SEO. Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need, or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another. I would like to hear an SEO expert discuss that.
.
Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need,
More than the competition you are trying to put beneath you.
or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another.
Yes it does and in a variety of ways.
The links need to be direct to carry weight.
They need to be from pages that are indexed by google
They need to be from directories that are given weight (those directories that show up well in the searches, carry more weight)
 

swirt

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I think we all get that we need incoming links from well-respected sources. But, that's what the directories prey on. 'You need to have these links. One reservation from this link will pay for it. Buy it now before it's too late.'
I read someone else's blog post the other day about this. And I wish I could remember where and who! She calculated that if she signed up with everyone who called it would have cost her £60,000 to do it.
I don't think anyone drops a directory without some reason. Here's a question- how valuable is an incoming link to your site if NO ONE ever clicks it? Sure, it sits there always available for someone to click on it, but does Google calculate that? It is essentially a link to nowhere if it is never used.
No one would advocate wholesale dropping of directories. But, judicious pruning of inactive directories makes sense. Why continue to pay $200 for a link? Is a link really worth $200+ if it brings in no business? Does it really keep your listing way up there? There is no proof of that statement. Who knows what other things are going on with inns that drop directories. Maybe that's the only incoming link they had. Maybe they changed a lot of web stuff at the same time that caused them grief..
Here's a question- how valuable is an incoming link to your site if NO ONE ever clicks it? Sure, it sits there always available for someone to click on it, but does Google calculate that? It is essentially a link to nowhere if it is never used.
It can have some value from search engine position point of view. Especially if it results in your inn being at position #2 rather than #3. The other side of your question though is, if it is not a high traffic site, it will not carry as much weight as a directory with more traffic. Not so much because of the actual traffic, but from the axiom that if the directory page shows up well in the search engine, then it will likely have traffic, and if it shows up well, a link from it will carry more weight. A directory page that does not show up well, will not carry as much weight and also will have less traffic.
The traffic itself does not control the weight of the link from the page, It is indirectly related, but it is an indicator. Sort of like ice cream sales and home break-ins.
 

muirford

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Sorry, but I Love Inns is driving me crazy. I was with them for 1 year as a trial. NOTHING! I don't care how many click-throughs I got, I was using superstatz and could tell where my online reservations came from (90% of my reservations) and nothing.
They have been calling me to rejoin, sending numerous e-mails and I had to tell them just last week to LEAVE ME ALONE. Geez....they're like a pit bull.
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased..
Breakfast Diva said:
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased.
I always laugh when I see that his is on his own top ten list to belong to. I've never yet seen it show up in a google search. I'm sure he would argue with me about that, so let me put the disclaimer out that I am speaking of my own experience; your mileage may vary.
It's been known for a long time that Google gives you more credit for high-quality links than for low-quality links. That's why no one recommends link farms to help your SEO. Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need, or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another. I would like to hear an SEO expert discuss that.
.
Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need,
More than the competition you are trying to put beneath you.
or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another.
Yes it does and in a variety of ways.
The links need to be direct to carry weight.
They need to be from pages that are indexed by google
They need to be from directories that are given weight (those directories that show up well in the searches, carry more weight)
.
swirt said:
Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need,
More than the competition you are trying to put beneath you.
Okay, I'm going to say that's kind of obvious.

swirt said:
or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another.
They need to be from directories that are given weight (those directories that show up well in the searches, carry more weight)
The first two points I understand and we have talked about them here. But the third is the one that doesn't seem to have a straight answer. Based on page rank? Or some kind of relative weight for specific search terms? Like how they show up for specific search terms like mytown, mystate B&B? And I have to also assume that is not just B&B directories that are given weight, but any other website that might carry your link, like a visitors center.
I am glad to hear from a different SEO expert. I find it hard to believe that any single B&B directory has the lock on providing the best 'google link juice' to one of us. If you tell us it is so, swirt - I will take it as fact.
 

swirt

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Sorry, but I Love Inns is driving me crazy. I was with them for 1 year as a trial. NOTHING! I don't care how many click-throughs I got, I was using superstatz and could tell where my online reservations came from (90% of my reservations) and nothing.
They have been calling me to rejoin, sending numerous e-mails and I had to tell them just last week to LEAVE ME ALONE. Geez....they're like a pit bull.
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased..
Breakfast Diva said:
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased.
I always laugh when I see that his is on his own top ten list to belong to. I've never yet seen it show up in a google search. I'm sure he would argue with me about that, so let me put the disclaimer out that I am speaking of my own experience; your mileage may vary.
It's been known for a long time that Google gives you more credit for high-quality links than for low-quality links. That's why no one recommends link farms to help your SEO. Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need, or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another. I would like to hear an SEO expert discuss that.
.
Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need,
More than the competition you are trying to put beneath you.
or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another.
Yes it does and in a variety of ways.
The links need to be direct to carry weight.
They need to be from pages that are indexed by google
They need to be from directories that are given weight (those directories that show up well in the searches, carry more weight)
.
swirt said:
Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need,
More than the competition you are trying to put beneath you.
Okay, I'm going to say that's kind of obvious.

swirt said:
or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another.
They need to be from directories that are given weight (those directories that show up well in the searches, carry more weight)
The first two points I understand and we have talked about them here. But the third is the one that doesn't seem to have a straight answer. Based on page rank? Or some kind of relative weight for specific search terms? Like how they show up for specific search terms like mytown, mystate B&B? And I have to also assume that is not just B&B directories that are given weight, but any other website that might carry your link, like a visitors center.
I am glad to hear from a different SEO expert. I find it hard to believe that any single B&B directory has the lock on providing the best 'google link juice' to one of us. If you tell us it is so, swirt - I will take it as fact.
.
Based on page rank? Or some kind of relative weight for specific search terms? Like how they show up for specific search terms like mytown, mystate B&B?
Yes based on pagerank, but not the green toolbar variety. The rank that actually makes the page show up. If a page shows up well for a major search then that page is seen as more valuable for those terms than a page that does not show up well.
If Directory-A has a page that shows up #2 for a search for your town B&B and Directory-Z shows up on page 3, that is a VERY strong indication that directory-A's page will benefit your SEO more than directory-Z's page. And of course it has the added benefit that directory-A will also send you more traffic because of its good search engine position.
And I have to also assume that is not just B&B directories that are given weight, but any other website that might carry your link, like a visitors center.
Absolutely. Though from Google's point of view, a visitor center with 20 outgoing links looks a lot like a directory. ;) The visitor center may not be as strong on the term B&B as a B&B directory, but it may (if it is designed well) be stronger for the term mytown, mystate.
Again if the visitors center shows up well, then it is a good indication it will carry weight. You just have to make sure it is capable of passing it on via a direct link from a page that is indexed.
I am glad to hear from a different SEO expert. I find it hard to believe that any single B&B directory has the lock on providing the best 'google link juice' to one of us. If you tell us it is so, swirt - I will take it as fact.
Very little in SEO is at the "fact" stage. Most of it is more along the line of hypothesis with varying degrees of certainty. There is NO easy answer to say any single directory carries all the weight. But what I am saying is that if a directory delivers little to no traffic, it is unlikely it will have a large impact on SEO efforts either. HOWEVER, in some competitive areas, it may make a difference. In many cases there is very little difference between the places in slots #4-10. The first three slots for a search are usually pretty solid and change very little over time. The lower slots often bounce around quite a bit.

 

muirford

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Sorry, but I Love Inns is driving me crazy. I was with them for 1 year as a trial. NOTHING! I don't care how many click-throughs I got, I was using superstatz and could tell where my online reservations came from (90% of my reservations) and nothing.
They have been calling me to rejoin, sending numerous e-mails and I had to tell them just last week to LEAVE ME ALONE. Geez....they're like a pit bull.
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased..
Breakfast Diva said:
As far as being listed on directories, yes, it's important, but not if they don't produce for you. And don't forget, Scott owns his own directory, so he could be a bit biased.
I always laugh when I see that his is on his own top ten list to belong to. I've never yet seen it show up in a google search. I'm sure he would argue with me about that, so let me put the disclaimer out that I am speaking of my own experience; your mileage may vary.
It's been known for a long time that Google gives you more credit for high-quality links than for low-quality links. That's why no one recommends link farms to help your SEO. Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need, or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another. I would like to hear an SEO expert discuss that.
.
Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need,
More than the competition you are trying to put beneath you.
or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another.
Yes it does and in a variety of ways.
The links need to be direct to carry weight.
They need to be from pages that are indexed by google
They need to be from directories that are given weight (those directories that show up well in the searches, carry more weight)
.
swirt said:
Google is not clear on how many of those high-quality links you need,
More than the competition you are trying to put beneath you.
Okay, I'm going to say that's kind of obvious.

swirt said:
or if it even distinguishes between one B&B directory and another.
They need to be from directories that are given weight (those directories that show up well in the searches, carry more weight)
The first two points I understand and we have talked about them here. But the third is the one that doesn't seem to have a straight answer. Based on page rank? Or some kind of relative weight for specific search terms? Like how they show up for specific search terms like mytown, mystate B&B? And I have to also assume that is not just B&B directories that are given weight, but any other website that might carry your link, like a visitors center.
I am glad to hear from a different SEO expert. I find it hard to believe that any single B&B directory has the lock on providing the best 'google link juice' to one of us. If you tell us it is so, swirt - I will take it as fact.
.
Based on page rank? Or some kind of relative weight for specific search terms? Like how they show up for specific search terms like mytown, mystate B&B?
Yes based on pagerank, but not the green toolbar variety. The rank that actually makes the page show up. If a page shows up well for a major search then that page is seen as more valuable for those terms than a page that does not show up well.
If Directory-A has a page that shows up #2 for a search for your town B&B and Directory-Z shows up on page 3, that is a VERY strong indication that directory-A's page will benefit your SEO more than directory-Z's page. And of course it has the added benefit that directory-A will also send you more traffic because of its good search engine position.
And I have to also assume that is not just B&B directories that are given weight, but any other website that might carry your link, like a visitors center.
Absolutely. Though from Google's point of view, a visitor center with 20 outgoing links looks a lot like a directory. ;) The visitor center may not be as strong on the term B&B as a B&B directory, but it may (if it is designed well) be stronger for the term mytown, mystate.
Again if the visitors center shows up well, then it is a good indication it will carry weight. You just have to make sure it is capable of passing it on via a direct link from a page that is indexed.
I am glad to hear from a different SEO expert. I find it hard to believe that any single B&B directory has the lock on providing the best 'google link juice' to one of us. If you tell us it is so, swirt - I will take it as fact.
Very little in SEO is at the "fact" stage. Most of it is more along the line of hypothesis with varying degrees of certainty. There is NO easy answer to say any single directory carries all the weight. But what I am saying is that if a directory delivers little to no traffic, it is unlikely it will have a large impact on SEO efforts either. HOWEVER, in some competitive areas, it may make a difference. In many cases there is very little difference between the places in slots #4-10. The first three slots for a search are usually pretty solid and change very little over time. The lower slots often bounce around quite a bit.

.
swirt said:
And I have to also assume that is not just B&B directories that are given weight, but any other website that might carry your link, like a visitors center.
Absolutely. Though from Google's point of view, a visitor center with 20 outgoing links looks a lot like a directory. ;) The visitor center may not be as strong on the term B&B as a B&B directory, but it may (if it is designed well) be stronger for the term mytown, mystate.
Right - it's the search term that makes it carry weight, not that Google gives some label to bandb.com or any other directory that says - this is a directory of B&Bs, so its' links to individual B&Bs will be weighted more heavily. The link juice comes from the performance of a website (any website) for a specific set of search words. I've not heard any expert say that so specifically, and in fact I think that some of them want you to think that ANY directory automatically gives you more link juice than anything else you can link to. Thanks for the clarification. I know the google weighting algorithms are guarded more closely than the nuclear football attached to the president's entourage, but I do prefer to hear from somene who isn't flogging his/her own directory.
 

paulavery

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When P&P started out, in 2004, our value proposition was 'we help you do better in Google' and the main way was the l i n k. This is still our core value... We did this because we had no traffic and no rankings and the biggest reason is I believed it work. We found it worked 75% of the time.
To see iloveinns using this tactic tells me what I feel most know, iloveinns is trying to find additional ways to offer value. I feel for them because I have said all along to the people that have worked for me that I wish we didn't do this google thing. Our lives would have been so much easier if we had been more like bedandbreakfast.com and I can assure you we would not have done the Google thing.
Google is really hurting the vertical directory market. For most B&B results now Google is offering their own directory results right in the results. I can pretty much assure you that Google is the source of all significant traffic, even for bedandbreakfast.com, and thus when Google starts to edge out the lesser directories these lesser directories are left with nothing. And further the revenue a directory can make off of a single listing does not warrant significant advertising. To buy the traffic that bedandbreafast.com from Google via their adwords program would be simply too expensive compared to the possible revenue.
On a slightly different note, the l i n k market was huge before 2009. Companies would pay $500 a month for a single l i n k!
Now a days the whole link issue can be really messed up. A l i n k that Google thinks you bought can actually hurt your rankings. It is almost like Google will drop you X spots for that keyword if they think you bought it. The best l i n k s are naturally occuring ones.
Back to iloveinns and others.... so how does Google decide what listings to put in its own directory (Google places)... here is what I think:
a) Verified, Google wants to present listings that are real
b) Presence, I believe Google is looking for things that indicate presence in the market. e.g. facebook pages, twitter feeds, mention on other websites.
c) reviews... both on google places and tripadvisor.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Paul
 
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