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Ideal number of rooms

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walking dead

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What would you say is the ideal number of rooms for a B&B? We will have about $30K per year from my military retirement, but the B&B needs to pay for itself; mortgage, utilities, guest food, etc. We aren't looking to get rich from owning a B&B but we don't' want to go broke either.
I realize it will depend on the cost of the business and we are shooting for well below $1M. We are also hoping to find someplace with a little bit of land so we can offer it as a wedding/party venue to supplement income if needed.
 

JimBoone

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I'm afraid in my view it will not be the number of rooms, but the number of rooms occupied with paying guests at a decent rate that will pay the bills so let's go at this a slightly different way.
Will you be mom & pop doing it all yourselves or host & hostess hiring folks to do the work, don't answer to me, but just think about those thoughts. We have 8 rooms, 16 beds, don't serve food, at age 50 wife ran the place and I was extra helper evenings and weekends when not working at day job, worked well for us, at age 75 it seems a lot larger than it once did, but next generation of innkeepers now lives next door, that helps. For me I prefer to do the stress free physical work as opposed to the stress of being manager and bookkeeper.
Next part of that, are your rooms going to be busy everyday, all seasons or busy enough certain times to carry the rest of the year, again, don't answer me, but consider you and the place you choose and the lifestyle you desire. We probably have good and excellent weekend business 8 months out of the year, many weekdays and the other 4 months not so exciting, but the flip side of that is that we are happy, bills got paid and we got to breathe and enjoy life, retiring from one career I assume you desire a little fun time too.
Two ways to look at purchasing, back when I would have said it doesn't matter how much it costs, it's about how much you have left after you make the payments, my wife had the view to choose small, cheap, pay off the loan, after all we got to live somewhere anyway, guess we followed her view, but it has worked well for us.
Hope some of that proves useful to you, I'm sure much will depend on the area of the country you choose and also consider the type of guest you desire as your guests will also contribute or take away from your happy life. My ideal or target guests are just nice everyday folks, middle of the road, I'm not comfortable with the rough and rowdy crowd and don't figure I'm a classy enough guy to be comfortable with the upper crust so consider a place that fits you and the guests that will contribute to a happy life.
 

Morticia

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Number of rooms required to meet expenses depends on your market. We're open about 9 months of the year. We easily meet expenses with 7 rooms.
We could do a whole lot better if we opted to host events. It's just not us to be that busy!
There are times we could sell another 3 rooms/night because of tourist need. And other times we've only booked 4 rooms on a given night.
A lot depends, too, on what the market will bear in re pricing. Tourism tax revenue has increased 6%/year for the past 2 years in my state, so there is room for a big bump in income.
Something else you want to focus on is whether or not you actually want to live in a particular place. If you don't like where you live, it won't matter how much money you're making.
 

Generic

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Doesn't work that way. And it all depends on how your government taxes things and how you expense. And of course income is related to occupancy and price.
For example, while on vacation, I had to pay for Internet access to answer emails for the business... normally this would have been out-of-pocket expense, because sending a friend an email is personal.... but in this case, it's essential for the business and therefore a business expense.
So things that might be personal for most people are business expense for us.
Also, the rate for my rooms can go from $90 a night to $300 a night for the same room, so it depends on occupancy. I can easily get the $300 every time, but I have a lot of occupancy at the $90 rate. Why? Seasons, festivals, holidays and events can affect my rates dramatically. (My high season months can bring in multiples of what I earn in a low season month. In other words, one June is worth 6 to 10 times what a January might bring.)
 

gillumhouse

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I'm afraid in my view it will not be the number of rooms, but the number of rooms occupied with paying guests at a decent rate that will pay the bills so let's go at this a slightly different way.
Will you be mom & pop doing it all yourselves or host & hostess hiring folks to do the work, don't answer to me, but just think about those thoughts. We have 8 rooms, 16 beds, don't serve food, at age 50 wife ran the place and I was extra helper evenings and weekends when not working at day job, worked well for us, at age 75 it seems a lot larger than it once did, but next generation of innkeepers now lives next door, that helps. For me I prefer to do the stress free physical work as opposed to the stress of being manager and bookkeeper.
Next part of that, are your rooms going to be busy everyday, all seasons or busy enough certain times to carry the rest of the year, again, don't answer me, but consider you and the place you choose and the lifestyle you desire. We probably have good and excellent weekend business 8 months out of the year, many weekdays and the other 4 months not so exciting, but the flip side of that is that we are happy, bills got paid and we got to breathe and enjoy life, retiring from one career I assume you desire a little fun time too.
Two ways to look at purchasing, back when I would have said it doesn't matter how much it costs, it's about how much you have left after you make the payments, my wife had the view to choose small, cheap, pay off the loan, after all we got to live somewhere anyway, guess we followed her view, but it has worked well for us.
Hope some of that proves useful to you, I'm sure much will depend on the area of the country you choose and also consider the type of guest you desire as your guests will also contribute or take away from your happy life. My ideal or target guests are just nice everyday folks, middle of the road, I'm not comfortable with the rough and rowdy crowd and don't figure I'm a classy enough guy to be comfortable with the upper crust so consider a place that fits you and the guests that will contribute to a happy life..
I second the opinion to choose a place that fits you.
I used to go to Assoc meetings at the B & Bs that were mansions, then come home to my four-Square and do the Bette Davis, "What a dump!" Then one day, sitting in one of those mansions, I was looking at the beautiful wood fretwork, the gorgeous chandeliers in the foyer, the dining room, and in the parlors (all visable from where I sat) and found myself thinking, "I am SO glad I do not have to clean this place." I went home with a new appreciation for my B & B. I also knew I would not feel comfortable living in a mansion. I am a four-square or farm house type person. Understand your own comfort zone first and foremost.
 

Highlands John

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We have 3 rooms, we've often said how much easier it is to only have two rooms let.
Was speaking to a lady down the road who has 4 rooms, she said how much easier it is with 3.
Work wise seems most people want 1 less room than they have
 

Morticia

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We have 3 rooms, we've often said how much easier it is to only have two rooms let.
Was speaking to a lady down the road who has 4 rooms, she said how much easier it is with 3.
Work wise seems most people want 1 less room than they have
.
Highlands John said:
We have 3 rooms, we've often said how much easier it is to only have two rooms let.
Was speaking to a lady down the road who has 4 rooms, she said how much easier it is with 3.
Work wise seems most people want 1 less room than they have
OMG! That is so true! When we have 6 rooms it's like a mini vacation.
 

OnTheShore

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Number of rooms required to meet expenses depends on your market. We're open about 9 months of the year. We easily meet expenses with 7 rooms.
We could do a whole lot better if we opted to host events. It's just not us to be that busy!
There are times we could sell another 3 rooms/night because of tourist need. And other times we've only booked 4 rooms on a given night.
A lot depends, too, on what the market will bear in re pricing. Tourism tax revenue has increased 6%/year for the past 2 years in my state, so there is room for a big bump in income.
Something else you want to focus on is whether or not you actually want to live in a particular place. If you don't like where you live, it won't matter how much money you're making..
Morticia said:
Tourism tax revenue has increased 6%/year for the past 2 years in my state...
Hmm, wonder how much of that comes from the State now collecting lodging taxes directly from AirBnB/VRBO/HomeAway etc... rather than relying on vacation rental property owners?
 

TheBeachHouse

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The previous owner rented 8 rooms. We didn't think we could do that - plus, we wanted a bigger apartment. So we annexed two of her rental rooms and we rent 6 rooms.
When we have only 4 rented, it's like a day off!
From looking around this town, I think 6 - 8 is pretty average. 3 is a part time job.
Work with your area and the house you find. And your annual budget requirements.
 

gillumhouse

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The previous owner rented 8 rooms. We didn't think we could do that - plus, we wanted a bigger apartment. So we annexed two of her rental rooms and we rent 6 rooms.
When we have only 4 rented, it's like a day off!
From looking around this town, I think 6 - 8 is pretty average. 3 is a part time job.
Work with your area and the house you find. And your annual budget requirements..
Sorry, but 3-rooms is not a part-time job. For one thing, it depends on the area demand. Those of us who are NOT in a tourist mecca may be quite busy with just 3-rooms. Even though I am not booked every night, my B & B IS my full-time job.
It also depends on your life-style and what you expect of the B & B as to how many rooms are needed. I mostly live on the income of the B & B, if I was in a tourist area, I could easily live on the income of my 3-rooms.
It is hurtful when another innkeeper denigrates a smaller inn as if it is insignificant in the scheme of things. Just because we may choose to have fewer rooms does not mean it is less than what anyone else has as a business.
It is a good thing I chose to have just 3-rooms - more would have bankrupted me in my chosen area. I would be a slave to the OTAs now just to pay the taxes, insurance, and utilities a larger B & B would incur. Since I opened, to say over 2500 hotel rooms have been built in my area is an understatement. The interstate corridor that was in place has had several hotels opened at each exit - they were building one more exit when we moved here and in the last 5 years, 4 hotels have been built just at that exit. The next exit down has torn down one and built a multi-story hotel to replace the one-story motel with about 20 rooms and added another large multi-story hotel just down the same access road.
I congratulate those with large inns who have help and admire those that do it themselves. I chose to do what I can manage alone as Himself was not physically able to help with this enterprise. Yes, my ox was gored and it hurt.
 

TheBeachHouse

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The previous owner rented 8 rooms. We didn't think we could do that - plus, we wanted a bigger apartment. So we annexed two of her rental rooms and we rent 6 rooms.
When we have only 4 rented, it's like a day off!
From looking around this town, I think 6 - 8 is pretty average. 3 is a part time job.
Work with your area and the house you find. And your annual budget requirements..
Sorry, but 3-rooms is not a part-time job. For one thing, it depends on the area demand. Those of us who are NOT in a tourist mecca may be quite busy with just 3-rooms. Even though I am not booked every night, my B & B IS my full-time job.
It also depends on your life-style and what you expect of the B & B as to how many rooms are needed. I mostly live on the income of the B & B, if I was in a tourist area, I could easily live on the income of my 3-rooms.
It is hurtful when another innkeeper denigrates a smaller inn as if it is insignificant in the scheme of things. Just because we may choose to have fewer rooms does not mean it is less than what anyone else has as a business.
It is a good thing I chose to have just 3-rooms - more would have bankrupted me in my chosen area. I would be a slave to the OTAs now just to pay the taxes, insurance, and utilities a larger B & B would incur. Since I opened, to say over 2500 hotel rooms have been built in my area is an understatement. The interstate corridor that was in place has had several hotels opened at each exit - they were building one more exit when we moved here and in the last 5 years, 4 hotels have been built just at that exit. The next exit down has torn down one and built a multi-story hotel to replace the one-story motel with about 20 rooms and added another large multi-story hotel just down the same access road.
I congratulate those with large inns who have help and admire those that do it themselves. I chose to do what I can manage alone as Himself was not physically able to help with this enterprise. Yes, my ox was gored and it hurt.
.
I hope you know me better than to think I would hurt you or anyone here on purpose. I apologize for my poorly chosen words.
Understand I am speaking from my experience and specifically my experience in my town. I know a couple innkeepers who manage 3 rooms. It is not their full time job. In either case.
The question is, what is an ideal number of rooms. I tried to share my thoughts on the question. I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I certainly did not mean to be thoughtless or dismissive.
Please forgive me.
 

gillumhouse

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The previous owner rented 8 rooms. We didn't think we could do that - plus, we wanted a bigger apartment. So we annexed two of her rental rooms and we rent 6 rooms.
When we have only 4 rented, it's like a day off!
From looking around this town, I think 6 - 8 is pretty average. 3 is a part time job.
Work with your area and the house you find. And your annual budget requirements..
Sorry, but 3-rooms is not a part-time job. For one thing, it depends on the area demand. Those of us who are NOT in a tourist mecca may be quite busy with just 3-rooms. Even though I am not booked every night, my B & B IS my full-time job.
It also depends on your life-style and what you expect of the B & B as to how many rooms are needed. I mostly live on the income of the B & B, if I was in a tourist area, I could easily live on the income of my 3-rooms.
It is hurtful when another innkeeper denigrates a smaller inn as if it is insignificant in the scheme of things. Just because we may choose to have fewer rooms does not mean it is less than what anyone else has as a business.
It is a good thing I chose to have just 3-rooms - more would have bankrupted me in my chosen area. I would be a slave to the OTAs now just to pay the taxes, insurance, and utilities a larger B & B would incur. Since I opened, to say over 2500 hotel rooms have been built in my area is an understatement. The interstate corridor that was in place has had several hotels opened at each exit - they were building one more exit when we moved here and in the last 5 years, 4 hotels have been built just at that exit. The next exit down has torn down one and built a multi-story hotel to replace the one-story motel with about 20 rooms and added another large multi-story hotel just down the same access road.
I congratulate those with large inns who have help and admire those that do it themselves. I chose to do what I can manage alone as Himself was not physically able to help with this enterprise. Yes, my ox was gored and it hurt.
.
I hope you know me better than to think I would hurt you or anyone here on purpose. I apologize for my poorly chosen words.
Understand I am speaking from my experience and specifically my experience in my town. I know a couple innkeepers who manage 3 rooms. It is not their full time job. In either case.
The question is, what is an ideal number of rooms. I tried to share my thoughts on the question. I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I certainly did not mean to be thoughtless or dismissive.
Please forgive me.
.
Of course. Just wanting to remind everyone that it is not the size of a B & B that makes it a full-time or part-time job, it is the attitude of the innkeeper as well as the location and affordability of the facility. It is not a job for me - it is my vocation. As a job, I would hate it. As my vocation, I love it.
 

seashanty

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It was eight rooms for me and the amount of rooms occupied brought in more money but also cost me more in all areas especially staff ... the breakfasts, the laundry, the cleaning, the time! I could not clean (flip) more than three rooms a day every day, plus all the common areas, on my own in addition to doing the grocery shopping and all the other tasks involved with running an inn. For higher occupancy, I required staff, and that cost has to be factored in. Even doing all the inside work, I needed help with the yardwork and the trash disposal (no town pickups). Then there is office work and bookkeeping and marketing, etc. Sometimes I spent all day and night working when running at full capacity, even with staff ... it was grab a shower, grab some sleep, grab a meal. There are unexpected things that happen. All the time. If there are two of you, that's a big help if you both can manage the workings of the place.
 

Tom

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In most US jurisdictions, 5 rooms or fewer is "residential B&B" and 6 and above is typically "commercial". Federal ADA law, Uniform Building Code apply to 6 and above.
We're 5 for that reason. Operates like a 2 in the slow season, a 5 in the high season. Make it's style match your own, don't make it fancier than you can sustain over the long haul.
 
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In most US jurisdictions, 5 rooms or fewer is "residential B&B" and 6 and above is typically "commercial". Federal ADA law, Uniform Building Code apply to 6 and above.
We're 5 for that reason. Operates like a 2 in the slow season, a 5 in the high season. Make it's style match your own, don't make it fancier than you can sustain over the long haul..
Thanks Tom...that was very very helpful information! By chance, do you know what site(s) I should look at to help me understand the Federal regulations for 6+ rooms...as well as state/county sites?
 

JimBoone

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In most US jurisdictions, 5 rooms or fewer is "residential B&B" and 6 and above is typically "commercial". Federal ADA law, Uniform Building Code apply to 6 and above.
We're 5 for that reason. Operates like a 2 in the slow season, a 5 in the high season. Make it's style match your own, don't make it fancier than you can sustain over the long haul..
Thanks Tom...that was very very helpful information! By chance, do you know what site(s) I should look at to help me understand the Federal regulations for 6+ rooms...as well as state/county sites?
.
Dreaming 4 a Darling Inn said:
By chance, do you know what site(s) I should look at to help me understand the Federal regulations for 6+ rooms...as well as state/county sites?
You might start with ADA.gov, yet to me the hitch is the comment "help me understand", as laws always seem to be written for large corporations with legal departments rather than mom & pop. I also think you're in good company right on this forum, at least to get a "heads up" about things we need to consider.
 

gillumhouse

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In most US jurisdictions, 5 rooms or fewer is "residential B&B" and 6 and above is typically "commercial". Federal ADA law, Uniform Building Code apply to 6 and above.
We're 5 for that reason. Operates like a 2 in the slow season, a 5 in the high season. Make it's style match your own, don't make it fancier than you can sustain over the long haul..
Thanks Tom...that was very very helpful information! By chance, do you know what site(s) I should look at to help me understand the Federal regulations for 6+ rooms...as well as state/county sites?
.
And not to make it even more confusing, but regs for different agencies in the same State can be different. In WV, Health Dept. Codes are 6 rooms or less and 7 or more. Fire Codes say 3 rooms is just residence and 4 to 6 have regs and 7 or more have other regs.
 

flyingace71

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YIPE, we just bought an 11 room Inn and it's just my wife and I :) We think we can do it since it's cottages not in our house and we have 3 sets of everything. Here's hoping!
We are zoned C-1 commercial too.
 

JimBoone

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In most US jurisdictions, 5 rooms or fewer is "residential B&B" and 6 and above is typically "commercial". Federal ADA law, Uniform Building Code apply to 6 and above.
We're 5 for that reason. Operates like a 2 in the slow season, a 5 in the high season. Make it's style match your own, don't make it fancier than you can sustain over the long haul..
Thanks Tom...that was very very helpful information! By chance, do you know what site(s) I should look at to help me understand the Federal regulations for 6+ rooms...as well as state/county sites?
.
And not to make it even more confusing, but regs for different agencies in the same State can be different. In WV, Health Dept. Codes are 6 rooms or less and 7 or more. Fire Codes say 3 rooms is just residence and 4 to 6 have regs and 7 or more have other regs.
.
Wouldn't it be nice if our different government bodies could all get on the same page
 

OnTheShore

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YIPE, we just bought an 11 room Inn and it's just my wife and I :) We think we can do it since it's cottages not in our house and we have 3 sets of everything. Here's hoping!
We are zoned C-1 commercial too..
We have 9 cottages ranging from a studio to a six bedroom lodge (every bed fully occupied we can sleep 56). All have full kitchens, some have multiple bathrooms (e.g. the lodge). We hire a crew of cleaners to handle the changeovers (Sat to Sat weeks during peak season), we send the laundry out, and we have a part-time person to help with maintenance and groundskeeping as well.
Good Luck!
 
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