"Perfect Guests Swindle Innkeepers" Boston Globe

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She looks like Dr Ruth (I would guess Dr Ruth like 30 years ago tho)
confused_smile.gif
 
These are pix that S/B circulated amongst innkeepers. In this state it is a felony, haul them away Danno!
 
Check approval services are still out there. But since most places only get checks irregularly, it wouldn't be cost effective for them to sign up for them.
Yes, you can still call a bank to verify balance. But it takes more time now to get through automated messages.
For these folks, though, who seem to be quite gifted in the art of deceit, it seems they'd sneak past most folks radars. Like the guy said, they seemed like nice grandparents.
SS, will you post the article you found that shows they've been released? Because I think that says a lot about the ability of these folks to be believed. If even the courts believed these folks were just nice grandparents after what they knew about them, you can hardly blame any B&Bs that did the same..
Innkeeper To Go said:
Yes, you can still call a bank to verify balance. But it takes more time now to get through automated messages.

Side rant...my mother's bank was bought out by a bigger bank. Because the branch that is nearest to her is 45 minutes away, she has to call the bank. She is now regularly on hold for 30 minutes or more. Or, the message says they are closed. At noon. On a weekday.

Last I heard she was closing that account as soon as she could get to the bank in person.

I'm still with a small-town bank. I call, someone answers the phone. I don't even get a menu, just a person.
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I think that the banks consider the automated runaround to be a feature, not a bug.
It's the future of banking with any of the big guys.
 
These are pix that S/B circulated amongst innkeepers. In this state it is a felony, haul them away Danno!.
This may be the perfect place to bring up this website: Bad Customer
I believe it's a paid list. If you're a business, you pay to use the search. Whoever just had that chargeback might want to look at this. Some of the 'advertising' says if you have a 'frequent flier' trying to get their money back, the cc processor MAY use the info that the customer is 'always' doing this in your favor.
Altho, checking closer, a lot of people are calling it a scam to get your cc info if you are a customer trying to find out if you're on the list. So, caveat emptor.
 
These are pix that S/B circulated amongst innkeepers. In this state it is a felony, haul them away Danno!.
This may be the perfect place to bring up this website: Bad Customer
I believe it's a paid list. If you're a business, you pay to use the search. Whoever just had that chargeback might want to look at this. Some of the 'advertising' says if you have a 'frequent flier' trying to get their money back, the cc processor MAY use the info that the customer is 'always' doing this in your favor.
Altho, checking closer, a lot of people are calling it a scam to get your cc info if you are a customer trying to find out if you're on the list. So, caveat emptor.
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Then again, there was this mention of that website in this article on 'friendly fraud.'
Note the part about Expedia...
'...that the well-known travel site Expedia has seen at least a 50% climb in friendly fraud from October to November.'
Which may mean that smaller properties, like B&B's, that are on Expedia are hosting guests who then contact Expedia to say they never stayed, for whatever reason.
 
Does any one else use PayPal? That way guests can draw from a credit card or a bank account. We use PayPal for a manditory 50% deposit and the rest is paid in full in cash on check in. So far this system is working for us.
Hope they don't come down this way as we have enough issues.
 
Does any one else use PayPal? That way guests can draw from a credit card or a bank account. We use PayPal for a manditory 50% deposit and the rest is paid in full in cash on check in. So far this system is working for us.
Hope they don't come down this way as we have enough issues..
Will PayPal protect you, tho, if the guest complains? I thought they only agreed to arbitrate if there was an actual, tangible product sold. But, it has been years since I used them, so that may have changed.
 
so ... i'm wondering about those of you who accept personal checks on a regular basis. one of the inns hadn't deposited the first check and then accepted a second. there are stores that used to have instant check verification and you'd stand at the checkout and wait until it was approved. is this a service that b&b's can use? does anyone use it and, if so, how much is it? in one business i worked at a couple years ago, we used to call the bank a check was drawn on and ask if there were funds sufficient to cover. can businesses still do that?
'As the days passed, the Wolffs kept extending their stay, eventually earning a discounted rate of $169 a night. But one night, all the rooms were booked, and the Wolffs had to check out, paying with a $750 check. They were back the next night, and stayed for two more weeks.
The proprietors didn’t cash the check for several days, but after they finally did, it was returned for insufficient funds. Mudry confronted Jane Wolff, but the woman dismissed it as an oversight. Later that day, Benjamin Wolff was similarly cavalier, insisting he would make it good in short order.'.
There are add ons you can get to the cc machine that also do check verification. I think you can call the bank, but the money may be there when you call, but not when your check gets there. Especially if a lot of checks are being written and there are not enough funds.
E-checks get there first (think cc payments and other 'bank-related' checks you write, and any payments that are automatic from your checking acct).
.
You answered this before I could... I do think there are banks that you can even scan in checks and make your deposit at home, these could then become E-checks but don't know this for sure.
Calling the bank for verification is not full proof, just because the funds are there when you call does not asure they will be there when the check goes through. ATM withdrawls, Debit/cc purchases all are automatic.
WARNING - RANT: I have even had an issue (well my son) which showed on the statement like this: a check that went through on a Friday, ATM withdrawls on Sat & Sun. - on Monday they stamped the check INF and sent it back to the merchant. My son got the call from the merchant (a week or so later) went to the bank and they printed out his statement... When he questioned why the check was marked instead of him being refused to make a withdrawl at the ATM the bank person when blank. Of course they hit him for NOT only a INF check charge, but also for overdrawling at the ATM... This had been a small bank who had just 2-3 months prior to this had been taken over by one of the BIG guys. Needless to say he closed that account, we in turn closed 3 accounts, our daughter did as well and we had friends and several club accounts close theres. We each sited my sons problem when we did so and each of us requested the bank manager when doing so. Don't think it made much difference, they are the big guys but we did make an impact at that branch - we all closed them within one calendar month. I am sure their practice is the same.
Now back to the subject....These people are most likely out on the street again, free to continue until their court date. But I would think they were told not to leave the state which is typical for bail, will that stop them?
 
Does any one else use PayPal? That way guests can draw from a credit card or a bank account. We use PayPal for a manditory 50% deposit and the rest is paid in full in cash on check in. So far this system is working for us.
Hope they don't come down this way as we have enough issues..
Check to see if Paypal protects you. Not sure if they do. Also, aren't they expensive (as in compared with other processors)?
 
so ... i'm wondering about those of you who accept personal checks on a regular basis. one of the inns hadn't deposited the first check and then accepted a second. there are stores that used to have instant check verification and you'd stand at the checkout and wait until it was approved. is this a service that b&b's can use? does anyone use it and, if so, how much is it? in one business i worked at a couple years ago, we used to call the bank a check was drawn on and ask if there were funds sufficient to cover. can businesses still do that?
'As the days passed, the Wolffs kept extending their stay, eventually earning a discounted rate of $169 a night. But one night, all the rooms were booked, and the Wolffs had to check out, paying with a $750 check. They were back the next night, and stayed for two more weeks.
The proprietors didn’t cash the check for several days, but after they finally did, it was returned for insufficient funds. Mudry confronted Jane Wolff, but the woman dismissed it as an oversight. Later that day, Benjamin Wolff was similarly cavalier, insisting he would make it good in short order.'.
There are add ons you can get to the cc machine that also do check verification. I think you can call the bank, but the money may be there when you call, but not when your check gets there. Especially if a lot of checks are being written and there are not enough funds.
E-checks get there first (think cc payments and other 'bank-related' checks you write, and any payments that are automatic from your checking acct).
.
You answered this before I could... I do think there are banks that you can even scan in checks and make your deposit at home, these could then become E-checks but don't know this for sure.
Calling the bank for verification is not full proof, just because the funds are there when you call does not asure they will be there when the check goes through. ATM withdrawls, Debit/cc purchases all are automatic.
WARNING - RANT: I have even had an issue (well my son) which showed on the statement like this: a check that went through on a Friday, ATM withdrawls on Sat & Sun. - on Monday they stamped the check INF and sent it back to the merchant. My son got the call from the merchant (a week or so later) went to the bank and they printed out his statement... When he questioned why the check was marked instead of him being refused to make a withdrawl at the ATM the bank person when blank. Of course they hit him for NOT only a INF check charge, but also for overdrawling at the ATM... This had been a small bank who had just 2-3 months prior to this had been taken over by one of the BIG guys. Needless to say he closed that account, we in turn closed 3 accounts, our daughter did as well and we had friends and several club accounts close theres. We each sited my sons problem when we did so and each of us requested the bank manager when doing so. Don't think it made much difference, they are the big guys but we did make an impact at that branch - we all closed them within one calendar month. I am sure their practice is the same.
Now back to the subject....These people are most likely out on the street again, free to continue until their court date. But I would think they were told not to leave the state which is typical for bail, will that stop them?
.
OK, bank rant thread...my son had his PAYCHECK bounce. The bank took the money back and charged HIM all the fees for the NSF. When we went to complain they told us if we wanted the NSF fees back we'd have to go after his boss for the money, which son did not want to do. Eventually, I got the bank to give him back that money.
 
Does any one else use PayPal? That way guests can draw from a credit card or a bank account. We use PayPal for a manditory 50% deposit and the rest is paid in full in cash on check in. So far this system is working for us.
Hope they don't come down this way as we have enough issues..
Check to see if Paypal protects you. Not sure if they do. Also, aren't they expensive (as in compared with other processors)?
.
Copperhead said:
Check to see if Paypal protects you. Not sure if they do. Also, aren't they expensive (as in compared with other processors)?
In the long run, maybe not. There's no machine to buy or rent, no monthly fee, no 'extra' fees because someone used a rewards card, I think it's just a flat %. Now that % may be higher than a regular processor but you don't have all the other stuff to contend with. I'd be more concerned with the lack of any kind of protection from chargebacks.
 
As I always say - there is a cost to running a business. Fees are part of the cost and just make sure you throw those on your taxes come April. To be professional we need to accept credit cards we prefer not to like Amex and overseas credit cards and pay some higher fees. It is what it is.
 
Does any one else use PayPal? That way guests can draw from a credit card or a bank account. We use PayPal for a manditory 50% deposit and the rest is paid in full in cash on check in. So far this system is working for us.
Hope they don't come down this way as we have enough issues..
Check to see if Paypal protects you. Not sure if they do. Also, aren't they expensive (as in compared with other processors)?
.
Copperhead said:
Check to see if Paypal protects you. Not sure if they do. Also, aren't they expensive (as in compared with other processors)?
I've been a seller on ebay for years, and have always (and still do) use paypal. I don't care for their new reserve policy, which would apply to you as a B&B. They hold 20% of every payment you take in for a long period of time (I forget how long without looking it up).
Perhaps most importantly, as a traveler, I would not use paypal to make a reservation. As an innkeeper, I would not use it to take guest funds. It appears to be incredibly unprofessional to me to see it on a B&B website. There are far less expensive and more professional ways to go.
 
Does any one else use PayPal? That way guests can draw from a credit card or a bank account. We use PayPal for a manditory 50% deposit and the rest is paid in full in cash on check in. So far this system is working for us.
Hope they don't come down this way as we have enough issues..
Check to see if Paypal protects you. Not sure if they do. Also, aren't they expensive (as in compared with other processors)?
.
Copperhead said:
Check to see if Paypal protects you. Not sure if they do. Also, aren't they expensive (as in compared with other processors)?
I've been a seller on ebay for years, and have always (and still do) use paypal. I don't care for their new reserve policy, which would apply to you as a B&B. They hold 20% of every payment you take in for a long period of time (I forget how long without looking it up).
Perhaps most importantly, as a traveler, I would not use paypal to make a reservation. As an innkeeper, I would not use it to take guest funds. It appears to be incredibly unprofessional to me to see it on a B&B website. There are far less expensive and more professional ways to go.
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I think almost all innkeepers in the US would agree with you that PayPal does not make sense for a B&B here.
Cathy's inn is in Mexico where it makes sense to use PayPal for half and cash payment for the remaining.
Her situation is really different from ours in America though...
 
She looks like Dr Ruth (I would guess Dr Ruth like 30 years ago tho)
confused_smile.gif
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Joey Bloggs said:
She looks like Dr Ruth (I would guess Dr Ruth like 30 years ago tho)
confused_smile.gif
maybe that's why she looks so familiar ~ it is so weird that they look familiar. so pleasant and 'nice' looking. jeesh.
 
We have saved ourselves many headaches by using PayPal. We cannot use the usual credit card processing machines ... you really need to be here to see the red tape it takes to go through and it is just not only business it is our Immigrant Visa's as well. Before PayPal we had guests just not showing up.
Things are different in Mexico. We have talked to PayPal reguarding our business and they are happy to proceed as we have been doing. There might just be exceptions to their rules depending on where you live. There may not be any protection, but so far we have been fortunate with our guests and would hopefully not expect any charge backs. We have had no issues or questions from guests when asking them to pay via PayPal. We are finding this system works very well for us .... here.
 
We have saved ourselves many headaches by using PayPal. We cannot use the usual credit card processing machines ... you really need to be here to see the red tape it takes to go through and it is just not only business it is our Immigrant Visa's as well. Before PayPal we had guests just not showing up.
Things are different in Mexico. We have talked to PayPal reguarding our business and they are happy to proceed as we have been doing. There might just be exceptions to their rules depending on where you live. There may not be any protection, but so far we have been fortunate with our guests and would hopefully not expect any charge backs. We have had no issues or questions from guests when asking them to pay via PayPal. We are finding this system works very well for us .... here..
Any time I have been to Mexico or Central America (and this was pre pay pal) the innkeepers had US Bank Accounts. They had it set up for us to pay for our accommodations HERE before going there.
 
We have saved ourselves many headaches by using PayPal. We cannot use the usual credit card processing machines ... you really need to be here to see the red tape it takes to go through and it is just not only business it is our Immigrant Visa's as well. Before PayPal we had guests just not showing up.
Things are different in Mexico. We have talked to PayPal reguarding our business and they are happy to proceed as we have been doing. There might just be exceptions to their rules depending on where you live. There may not be any protection, but so far we have been fortunate with our guests and would hopefully not expect any charge backs. We have had no issues or questions from guests when asking them to pay via PayPal. We are finding this system works very well for us .... here..
Any time I have been to Mexico or Central America (and this was pre pay pal) the innkeepers had US Bank Accounts. They had it set up for us to pay for our accommodations HERE before going there.
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aahhhh yes and that would help if we were from the United States but we are not. Canadian and British. Tried the US bank account route but you need an address originally to get started.
We have a Mexican and Canadian account and our guest prefer the PayPal route.
 
We have saved ourselves many headaches by using PayPal. We cannot use the usual credit card processing machines ... you really need to be here to see the red tape it takes to go through and it is just not only business it is our Immigrant Visa's as well. Before PayPal we had guests just not showing up.
Things are different in Mexico. We have talked to PayPal reguarding our business and they are happy to proceed as we have been doing. There might just be exceptions to their rules depending on where you live. There may not be any protection, but so far we have been fortunate with our guests and would hopefully not expect any charge backs. We have had no issues or questions from guests when asking them to pay via PayPal. We are finding this system works very well for us .... here..
Any time I have been to Mexico or Central America (and this was pre pay pal) the innkeepers had US Bank Accounts. They had it set up for us to pay for our accommodations HERE before going there.
.
aahhhh yes and that would help if we were from the United States but we are not. Canadian and British. Tried the US bank account route but you need an address originally to get started.
We have a Mexican and Canadian account and our guest prefer the PayPal route.
.
Sounds like PayPal is working out just fine for you there. In fact, it might just have turned out to be the perfect solution for you, much as it wouldn't work that well for those of us in the US.
And as someone who's been a frequent traveler outside of the US, I can tell you that I wouldn't find paying through PayPal at all offsetting. At least not for an inn in Mexico. In fact, I'd think the innkeepers were actually pretty savvy for finding a way to deal with the financials in a simple way that works for everyone.
Here in the US? No, I probably wouldn't book at a B&B in the US that required PayPal instead of the more customary way of booking directly with a credit card guarantee. But that's just me.
 
We have saved ourselves many headaches by using PayPal. We cannot use the usual credit card processing machines ... you really need to be here to see the red tape it takes to go through and it is just not only business it is our Immigrant Visa's as well. Before PayPal we had guests just not showing up.
Things are different in Mexico. We have talked to PayPal reguarding our business and they are happy to proceed as we have been doing. There might just be exceptions to their rules depending on where you live. There may not be any protection, but so far we have been fortunate with our guests and would hopefully not expect any charge backs. We have had no issues or questions from guests when asking them to pay via PayPal. We are finding this system works very well for us .... here..
Any time I have been to Mexico or Central America (and this was pre pay pal) the innkeepers had US Bank Accounts. They had it set up for us to pay for our accommodations HERE before going there.
.
aahhhh yes and that would help if we were from the United States but we are not. Canadian and British. Tried the US bank account route but you need an address originally to get started.
We have a Mexican and Canadian account and our guest prefer the PayPal route.
.
When in Rome...I mean Mexico.
wink_smile.gif

 
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