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We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
That is about as accurate as it gets.
At the core, we have to keep looking for innovative ideas and ways to improve what we do. We almost always respond to leads for local marketing opportunities. We give rooms for prizes. We are getting ready for another round of website improvement. We are getting ready to do some light duty room freshening. On and on and... quite honestly... this is half the fun of what we do. No two days are the same and that works for us.
.
I never do that here. j/k.... :)
.
That is what I have always assumed, so I was surprised to hear you say you weren't a destination. Bells rang, the sprinklers came on, and red flags flapped in the wind.
omg_smile.gif

 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
That was directed at me. I believe that with proper marketing just about anything can be turned into something. I have seen some "hole-in-the-wall" and remote places turned into HOT SPOTS with the proper marketing. It also depends on timing and other factors of course. But I do think it is possible.
Why do I say that? Although I may not have a revolving door of guests, that I am still open after 13 years in a place where no one thought anyone would come and I have had people from all over the world says it is possible. I could be sitting here wondering why people do not come. It was the telling people we are here that did it - of course living up to what we say we are is a requirement also. And my place will only get better with the next owner if they have any marketing ability
 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
Ok...cool it...I think you took this totally the wrong way! or the wrong reply to a message... No one was saying anything against you.
 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
Ok...cool it...I think you took this totally the wrong way! or the wrong reply to a message... No one was saying anything against you.
.
It wasn't at her as I already explained.
 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
Ok...cool it...I think you took this totally the wrong way! or the wrong reply to a message... No one was saying anything against you.
.
It wasn't at her as I already explained.
.
Sorry but you and I must have been typing at the same time;-)
 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
I'm sorry if you're offended by my post - one reason why I didn't quote anyone as saying it, and why I stated it was my opinion - but I have to say that is how I interpet the comment you made
Breakfast Diva said:
Not every B&B will make it, but in my experience, I've never seen a property fail when the innkeeper has prioritized their time and money to marketing their property and gotten some professional help.
Not to mention this one from LB:
Little Blue said:
It IS all about marketing....and that does not mean just spending money, it means spending time and effort even more often.
And the original post from Suellen
suellen222 said:
You just need to market yourself the proper way
Kathleen and I have had disagreements on this topic from the beginning of time. Lot of people are currently contributing to that conclusion.
And, frankly, I personally haven't attributed any of those kind of statements to knkbnb at all.
Clearly, you and I have a hard time communicating via this forum - I draw conclusions from your comments that you apparently don't mean to make, and you hear accusations from me in a general statement of opinion that I make. I think I can live without this discourse.
 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
I'm sorry if you're offended by my post - one reason why I didn't quote anyone as saying it, and why I stated it was my opinion - but I have to say that is how I interpet the comment you made
Breakfast Diva said:
Not every B&B will make it, but in my experience, I've never seen a property fail when the innkeeper has prioritized their time and money to marketing their property and gotten some professional help.
Not to mention this one from LB:
Little Blue said:
It IS all about marketing....and that does not mean just spending money, it means spending time and effort even more often.
And the original post from Suellen
suellen222 said:
You just need to market yourself the proper way
Kathleen and I have had disagreements on this topic from the beginning of time. Lot of people are currently contributing to that conclusion.
And, frankly, I personally haven't attributed any of those kind of statements to knkbnb at all.
Clearly, you and I have a hard time communicating via this forum - I draw conclusions from your comments that you apparently don't mean to make, and you hear accusations from me in a general statement of opinion that I make. I think I can live without this discourse.
.
Just so you know - no offense taken. Spoke as a who is to avoid mistaken identity. We all have opinions which is what makes this such an interesting place.
 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
I'm sorry if you're offended by my post - one reason why I didn't quote anyone as saying it, and why I stated it was my opinion - but I have to say that is how I interpet the comment you made
Breakfast Diva said:
Not every B&B will make it, but in my experience, I've never seen a property fail when the innkeeper has prioritized their time and money to marketing their property and gotten some professional help.
Not to mention this one from LB:
Little Blue said:
It IS all about marketing....and that does not mean just spending money, it means spending time and effort even more often.
And the original post from Suellen
suellen222 said:
You just need to market yourself the proper way
Kathleen and I have had disagreements on this topic from the beginning of time. Lot of people are currently contributing to that conclusion.
And, frankly, I personally haven't attributed any of those kind of statements to knkbnb at all.
Clearly, you and I have a hard time communicating via this forum - I draw conclusions from your comments that you apparently don't mean to make, and you hear accusations from me in a general statement of opinion that I make. I think I can live without this discourse.
.
Just so you know - no offense taken. Spoke as a who is to avoid mistaken identity. We all have opinions which is what makes this such an interesting place.
.
K, if I didn't disagree with you, you would wonder what aliens had landed and taken over my forum id...
wink_smile.gif

 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
.
I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
.
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
.
muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
.
I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
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Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
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My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
I'm sorry if you're offended by my post - one reason why I didn't quote anyone as saying it, and why I stated it was my opinion - but I have to say that is how I interpet the comment you made
Breakfast Diva said:
Not every B&B will make it, but in my experience, I've never seen a property fail when the innkeeper has prioritized their time and money to marketing their property and gotten some professional help.
Not to mention this one from LB:
Little Blue said:
It IS all about marketing....and that does not mean just spending money, it means spending time and effort even more often.
And the original post from Suellen
suellen222 said:
You just need to market yourself the proper way
Kathleen and I have had disagreements on this topic from the beginning of time. Lot of people are currently contributing to that conclusion.
And, frankly, I personally haven't attributed any of those kind of statements to knkbnb at all.
Clearly, you and I have a hard time communicating via this forum - I draw conclusions from your comments that you apparently don't mean to make, and you hear accusations from me in a general statement of opinion that I make. I think I can live without this discourse.
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Just so you know - no offense taken. Spoke as a who is to avoid mistaken identity. We all have opinions which is what makes this such an interesting place.
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K, if I didn't disagree with you, you would wonder what aliens had landed and taken over my forum id...
wink_smile.gif

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Absolutely. As I said, it makes for a lively forun. If we all agreed it would be BOR--RING!!!
 
We are neither in Podunk nor a destination. There are a bunch of new hotels/motels being built here. I'm afraid that they will undercut all of the B&Bs here and they will soon be a thing of the past. It's hard to compete with suite style hotels with pools and complimentary breakfasts that are $79/night that are geared for the majority of the travelers that visit this town. I just finished reading some posts on our city's forum on TA and people were raving about hotel rooms as low as $59/night. A quality B&B can't match that price and I wouldn't want to..
I think the larger inns may have more of a problem with the new hotels than the small ones. The people who like B & Bs are looking for rhe service and attention they can get at the small inns.
In the last 13 years, I estimate 1000 to 1500 rooms have been built in this area (Weston to Morgantown - about 40 miles each side of me) and none are newer than 3 years old). My business last year was banner level, this year I am down (I think the hotels are also unless they get conference business). However, I do think there is a place for me in the future. Once people get to the point they know what is happening in their lives. Once the rules stop changing every other month so to speak........
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I disagree. There are quite a few travelers that are looking under $100. What is "banner level" for you for your business, might not be anywhere near what a lot of innkeepers need to support their property, even if they are small properties. We only have 5 rooms and I need quite a bit of business to cover my overhead and we do all the work except mowing the grass and having a part-time housekeeper a couple of days a week. If the occupancy goes up, you need more help because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself.
The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
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Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
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muirford said:
Samster said:
I disagree. The hotels here are doing more business than ever and the b&b occupancies are down. It's strictly a function of price point.
I have seen the same phenomenon here. In a town only ten miles away, two hotels have opened - an HIE and a racino hotel - and the business at the B&Bs there has fallen through the floor. One will be closing for good within a few weeks, after selling at a drastically reduced price to people who will turn into commercial space and apartments. That town is only 5 miles from a national park, where all the B&Bs are doing well this year, and only 10 miles from us, and we are keeping up with last year's numbers. The new hotels have undercut the B&B prices and it's really hurt their business.
Here's what it sounds like to me...those B&Bs that are having trouble because of the hotels coming in need to change their marketing strategy. If the B&Bs only 5 miles away near the state park are doing well and so are you, then the marketing needs to emphesize the closeness to the destination. 5 miles is a very short distance. Forget about the hotelsmotels reanalyze their marketing. So often innkeepers get into a rut and just keep doing the same old thing. You simply can't do that in this economic environment.
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I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
The fact is that the number of lodging rooms tripled in the space of six months in their little town. The B&Bs in the town near the national park benefitted from half the hotel rooms in that town closing down for a multi-year renovation. My occupancy numbers are good compared to last year, but the hotels in my town are doing about 20% less business than in 2008. As far as I know, all of them have kept or increased their marketing budgets and they are doing more discounting and packages than before.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of. It is what Wal-Mart has done to thousands of small town businesses. And before you leap on me for that statement, I do shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's, although I try to spread the spending around to small local businesses too. The Walmart vs. small town business scenario is pretty well documented.
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I agree with some of your points - these inns didn't have the best websites, in my opinion, but I don't know enough about their own marketing budgets to say one way or the other what they spent on marketing. I didn't notice them dropping out of directories. It's inaccurate to say that they completely stopped spending money on marketing, if that is the assumption that you or LB is making.
Nope, I didn't assume they completely stopped spending money on marketing. The fact that you didn't think they had good websites could be a big factor. If an inn doesn't have a good website, then the likely assumption is that they also are not doing what's necessary to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. In these economic times, innkeepers need to continually re-evaluate their website, reviews, niche marketing, etc. or they unfortunately will fall by the wayside.
Sometimes the solution to the problem isn't as easy as just re-doing your marketing plan. If the hotels can afford to undercut your rates, even in the short term, they may be able to keep a B&B sinking deeper and deeper into a spending morass that they can't climb out of.
Re-doing your marketing plan is not easy. It also is not immediately apparent whether it's working or not. That's why it's important to continually challenge yourself with seeing what's out there and how the industry is changing. 2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option. I will continue to monitor if it's working for others.
As far as competing with hotels and motels, there are larger towns all along the coast that are lined with cheap hotels, motels, condo vacation rentals that especially in the off season sell their rooms from $49-$69 per night. The B&Bs can not compete with those prices and they don't. They still do a good business. They have to target market to those travelers looking for what B&Bs offer.
I do understand what you're saying about the Walmart mentality. But using that store as an example, you/we shop there for certain items, and then we shop at more upscale stores for other things. Let the hotels & motels be the Walmart and the B&Bs the lodging choice for the "others".
.
Breakfast Diva said:
2 years ago it was a very novel thing to see a blog on a B&B website. Now it's standard. Things are changing quickly. I'm not doing facebook & Twitter and I have a fear that I might be regretting that decision a couple years in the future, but I know it's there and an option.
These three media outlets - blogging, Facebook and Twitter - should be the first things someone with a severely limited marketing budget addresses, if for no other reason than they are free ways to get your name and information out there. Swirt has put together some great info on blogging and if you use blogspot or wordpress it costs you nothing. Facebook and Twitter are likewise free - I see at least Facebook becoming a good marketing outlet as it has become co-opted by 30 to 50 year olds rather than the high school and college networks it was developed for. This Vermont B&B has got a great following on Facebook and uses it for special deals and to promote both their inn and town. They have also set up an aggregate page for B&Bs on Facebook for some additional marketing. As for Twitter, the jury is still out for me on its usefulness but it costs nothing to set up an account and reserve your 'name' at a minimum, and Facebook now has an app that feeds any Facebook postings you make to your Twitter account. You can have a presence there with essentially no extra work, which is what I do with Twitter.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
.
My own feeling is I truly don't believe for any business that 'if you build it, they will come' if only you market it the right way. In my own very humble opinion, we do a disservice to aspiring innkeepers to say that. If you don't understand your market and your surroundings and have a strong business plan which includes but is not limited to marketing, you allow luck to play a large factor in the success of your business.
Holy cow! When did you hear myself or knk ever say such a thing???? We have been discussing specifically what innkeepers who have been in their businesses doing fine and now are suddenly having a problem because of economy & "competition". Please don't accuse me of ever telling or offering an aspiring that if you build it they will come. That is so against everything I believe and for you to try to use that argument here is reckless and offensive to me.
.
I'm sorry if you're offended by my post - one reason why I didn't quote anyone as saying it, and why I stated it was my opinion - but I have to say that is how I interpet the comment you made
Breakfast Diva said:
Not every B&B will make it, but in my experience, I've never seen a property fail when the innkeeper has prioritized their time and money to marketing their property and gotten some professional help.
Not to mention this one from LB:
Little Blue said:
It IS all about marketing....and that does not mean just spending money, it means spending time and effort even more often.
And the original post from Suellen
suellen222 said:
You just need to market yourself the proper way
Kathleen and I have had disagreements on this topic from the beginning of time. Lot of people are currently contributing to that conclusion.
And, frankly, I personally haven't attributed any of those kind of statements to knkbnb at all.
Clearly, you and I have a hard time communicating via this forum - I draw conclusions from your comments that you apparently don't mean to make, and you hear accusations from me in a general statement of opinion that I make. I think I can live without this discourse.
.
Muirford, you and I actually agree on a lot of things, but if because of discussions in the past you misinterpret what I say, then I need to clarify. This one came at me from left field. Even reading the quotes you quoted, I can't see how it's telling aspirings that they can build anywhere/everywhere they want and they'll have a great business. I am very sensitive when it comes to aspiring innkeepers because I work with them alot. There are a number of lurking aspirings on this forum I have sent here to learn and that's one of the reasons it's very important for me to be accurate with certain statements I and others make.
I only brought kbk into the conversation because of his posts agreeing to what I said.
So, at the end of the day, we really do agree in the principal, it's the conclusion that went awry. Hey, let's talk about Ireland and Scotland again, we got along great there!
thumbs_up.gif

 
I agree that some are up and some are down in certain areas one of those areas is here. And catlady-no we didn't have any "formal" experiences for becoming Innkeepers and we've done an excellent job with the excellent coments and reviews that we've received in the last four years.
We did love to cook and entertain, but we also had other experiences to make us good innkeepers. Just because an Inn is not liable does not mean the Innkeepers where incompetent.
 
I agree that some are up and some are down in certain areas one of those areas is here. And catlady-no we didn't have any "formal" experiences for becoming Innkeepers and we've done an excellent job with the excellent coments and reviews that we've received in the last four years.
We did love to cook and entertain, but we also had other experiences to make us good innkeepers. Just because an Inn is not liable does not mean the Innkeepers where incompetent..
WHOA NELLY!!!!
So when did I say you needed any formal experience??? And when did I say you didn't do a good job?
You are taking things out of context here. NO one is calling you incompetent...come on.....
I was making a generalized statement....based on things that have been in some of the articles JB posts in the past...where folks simply say and think..."because we love to cook and entertain...we think we would make great innkeepers." It takes alot more than that to be a good innkeeper as you should well know.
I taught aspiring classes for many years and this same comment was made by people attending a class "thinking" they wanted to become innkeepers.
Nothing I posted was to be inferred to you or anyone else here for that matter.
Gheez...give me a break!!!!
 
I agree that some are up and some are down in certain areas one of those areas is here. And catlady-no we didn't have any "formal" experiences for becoming Innkeepers and we've done an excellent job with the excellent coments and reviews that we've received in the last four years.
We did love to cook and entertain, but we also had other experiences to make us good innkeepers. Just because an Inn is not liable does not mean the Innkeepers where incompetent..
I also don't think Catlady was directing her comment to you. I know you are very vulnerable right now and all of our hearts are out to you and your situation.
So that you can help others out there, after all the suggestions you've gotten here, can you tell us what you now feel is the #1 reason your B&B is having such difficultles? Has your opinion changed since having many discussions here on the forum?
 
I agree that some are up and some are down in certain areas one of those areas is here. And catlady-no we didn't have any "formal" experiences for becoming Innkeepers and we've done an excellent job with the excellent coments and reviews that we've received in the last four years.
We did love to cook and entertain, but we also had other experiences to make us good innkeepers. Just because an Inn is not liable does not mean the Innkeepers where incompetent..
Why all the past tense?
 
I agree that some are up and some are down in certain areas one of those areas is here. And catlady-no we didn't have any "formal" experiences for becoming Innkeepers and we've done an excellent job with the excellent coments and reviews that we've received in the last four years.
We did love to cook and entertain, but we also had other experiences to make us good innkeepers. Just because an Inn is not liable does not mean the Innkeepers where incompetent..
The first part of this comment was meant to be helpful to you. If you truly cannot change your website now, get yourself to www.blogger.com TODAY and start a blog for your inn. List events in the area that people might do a google search for, any specials you have going for both foliage and the off-season, and get your B&B to have some internet attention starting right now. If you can post on this forum, you can create a blog on blogger. Read swirt's advice and it might even be a great way to start promoting your B&B in a way your webmaster is not able to, and it will be under your control.
 
I agree that some are up and some are down in certain areas one of those areas is here. And catlady-no we didn't have any "formal" experiences for becoming Innkeepers and we've done an excellent job with the excellent coments and reviews that we've received in the last four years.
We did love to cook and entertain, but we also had other experiences to make us good innkeepers. Just because an Inn is not liable does not mean the Innkeepers where incompetent..
WHOA NELLY!!!!
So when did I say you needed any formal experience??? And when did I say you didn't do a good job?
You are taking things out of context here. NO one is calling you incompetent...come on.....
I was making a generalized statement....based on things that have been in some of the articles JB posts in the past...where folks simply say and think..."because we love to cook and entertain...we think we would make great innkeepers." It takes alot more than that to be a good innkeeper as you should well know.
I taught aspiring classes for many years and this same comment was made by people attending a class "thinking" they wanted to become innkeepers.
Nothing I posted was to be inferred to you or anyone else here for that matter.
Gheez...give me a break!!!!
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catlady said:
I agree with BD. I would never hire someone who had no experience as an innkeeper to be an innsitter. To me that is just common sense. Unless it was someone I knew personally and had trained myself to do the job.
So, it's ok for people to become Inn owners without any experience, just not Inn-sitters? I know several Inn owners that never even stayed in a B&B b4 opening their doors!!! I think Inn-keeping is more about desire and passion for a lifestyle - just as there are self taught musicians out there...if you dream it you can do it!
Bird, if you want more people to come to your B&B you will figure out a way to reach them - even if it means asking for help on a forum - cos there are lots here that have "been there, done that". Do what works for YOU, cos it is your business and no one elses. Some pun intended!
 
I agree that some are up and some are down in certain areas one of those areas is here. And catlady-no we didn't have any "formal" experiences for becoming Innkeepers and we've done an excellent job with the excellent coments and reviews that we've received in the last four years.
We did love to cook and entertain, but we also had other experiences to make us good innkeepers. Just because an Inn is not liable does not mean the Innkeepers where incompetent..
WHOA NELLY!!!!
So when did I say you needed any formal experience??? And when did I say you didn't do a good job?
You are taking things out of context here. NO one is calling you incompetent...come on.....
I was making a generalized statement....based on things that have been in some of the articles JB posts in the past...where folks simply say and think..."because we love to cook and entertain...we think we would make great innkeepers." It takes alot more than that to be a good innkeeper as you should well know.
I taught aspiring classes for many years and this same comment was made by people attending a class "thinking" they wanted to become innkeepers.
Nothing I posted was to be inferred to you or anyone else here for that matter.
Gheez...give me a break!!!!
.
catlady said:
I agree with BD. I would never hire someone who had no experience as an innkeeper to be an innsitter. To me that is just common sense. Unless it was someone I knew personally and had trained myself to do the job.
So, it's ok for people to become Inn owners without any experience, just not Inn-sitters? I know several Inn owners that never even stayed in a B&B b4 opening their doors!!! I think Inn-keeping is more about desire and passion for a lifestyle - just as there are self taught musicians out there...if you dream it you can do it!
Bird, if you want more people to come to your B&B you will figure out a way to reach them - even if it means asking for help on a forum - cos there are lots here that have "been there, done that". Do what works for YOU, cos it is your business and no one elses. Some pun intended!
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WHAT? I don't get this repsonse in the middle of this conversation???? Where did this come from???
I know several Inn owners that never even stayed in a B&B b4 opening their doors!!!
So do I...the people we bought our place from :) They were wonderful !!!
 
EVERYONE is trying to be helpful and no one is taking a potshot at anyone. Read NOTHING in to any comment other than the effort to help. We are shooting the shotgun here in hope that one of the ideas that scatter out of the end of that idea shotgun his a target.
Muiorford's suggestion of a Blog is excellent, Birdwatcher. Do it as of yesterday. My blog increased my traffic mightily!!
 
yikes! i started a new thread for random ideas of how to BE the place to come.
 
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