Review That Bugs My .....

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With all due respect to my peers on the forum, I do not think I moved the discussion into any direction that might be skirting the line of appropriateness. I offered the suggestion of using reason in addressing the innkeeper's grievance - rule A says the following...the review broke rule A as such...
Politics and religion are big no-nos on forums - I agree. But they're no-nos if in the context of espousing one's political or religious views or engaging in a political or religious debate.
That's not happening here with this discussion. The fact is homosexuality is a topic often mentioned in both contexts of religion and politics, and TripAdvisor says politics and religion are no-nos. Therefore, the innkeeper has a case to be made.
Reason and logic - that's all I'm offering.
 
With all due respect to my peers on the forum, I do not think I moved the discussion into any direction that might be skirting the line of appropriateness. I offered the suggestion of using reason in addressing the innkeeper's grievance - rule A says the following...the review broke rule A as such...
Politics and religion are big no-nos on forums - I agree. But they're no-nos if in the context of espousing one's political or religious views or engaging in a political or religious debate.
That's not happening here with this discussion. The fact is homosexuality is a topic often mentioned in both contexts of religion and politics, and TripAdvisor says politics and religion are no-nos. Therefore, the innkeeper has a case to be made.
Reason and logic - that's all I'm offering..
Thanks Jay for pointing out the obvious breaches the reviewer made and how Eric can frame his response.
 
After playing middle man for the last three years between frustrated innkeepers and TripAdvisor, the best advice I can offer - if you feel the review should be removed - is to cite TripAdvisor's own guidelines for writing reviews, if you feel the reviewer violated a guideline. They can be found here: http://www.tripadvisor.com/help/our_guidelines_for_traveler_reviews
In particular, I think these guidelines come into question with your grievance:
  • Please refrain from using personally insulting language, attempting a smear campaign or posting content that is irrelevant and unhelpful to tourists.
  • TripAdvisor is not a forum for general political, ethical or religious opinions, discussion or commentary.
With the first bullet, I would not classify "gay" as insulting language or that the reviewer was attempting a smear campaign, but rather mentioning the innkepeers as gay, in my opinion, is "irrelevant and unhelpful". What does that have to do with the quality of the stay?
With the second bullet, I think you can say that by mentioning this presumption, the reviewer was potentially warning future guests, which reveals their own prejudice about homosexuality. Such prejudice is rooted deeply in politics and religion. Otherwise, why mention it, right?
You have a case to make - and I think you should make it. Good luck and please let me know ([email protected]) what the response is from TripAdvisor.
Best regards,
Jay.
Thank you. Of course, trying to frame this within their damn 200 character limit is a different problem.
And of course, once you submit a complaint it won't let you edit it or put in a new one until after they have ignored it for a few days and finally answered it.
I can't believe that they can't manage to have someone look into serious issues with their reviews and a complaint from an owner within 24 hours.
 
With all due respect to my peers on the forum, I do not think I moved the discussion into any direction that might be skirting the line of appropriateness. I offered the suggestion of using reason in addressing the innkeeper's grievance - rule A says the following...the review broke rule A as such...
Politics and religion are big no-nos on forums - I agree. But they're no-nos if in the context of espousing one's political or religious views or engaging in a political or religious debate.
That's not happening here with this discussion. The fact is homosexuality is a topic often mentioned in both contexts of religion and politics, and TripAdvisor says politics and religion are no-nos. Therefore, the innkeeper has a case to be made.
Reason and logic - that's all I'm offering..
I agree whole heartedly that the innkeeper has a case to be made, and Jay did a much better job than I could have in pointing out how to use TA's own review criteria to make the case. Some might read the review and not feel that any "slanderous" or "inflammatory" language was used...but it was. This is an incredibly subtle form of prejudice, as the OP states would the reviewer have mentioned if the innkeepers were a specific race or color? If so, would the reaction be different?
I also agree with the OP, 200 characters is a very difficult format in which to voice the complaint (because I submitted one and it took me about 5 tries with Word Count on MS Word to get it to fit!).
 
Thanks Jay. I voiced very focused statement to TA regarding this review. Hopefully many more of you have or will. TA should take a strong stance that personal attacts will not be tolerated.
 
I, too reported that the review was 'inappropriate'. You've got to keep it short and sweet, or the website won't accept it.
Please let us know if the almighty TA ever follows up!
 
I read the review. I agree that while the mere mention of a B&B owner's sexual orientation is inappropriate for a review, I was more put off by the personal attacks toward your partner. The review could have been worded more diplomatically.
However, set your defensiveness aside and take stock of what was said about the service. Do you hover? Should you automatically change towels after two days? Should you remake the bed and not just straighten it? Your guests shouldn't have to ask.
It never hurts to strive for excellence.
 
I read the review. I agree that while the mere mention of a B&B owner's sexual orientation is inappropriate for a review, I was more put off by the personal attacks toward your partner. The review could have been worded more diplomatically.
However, set your defensiveness aside and take stock of what was said about the service. Do you hover? Should you automatically change towels after two days? Should you remake the bed and not just straighten it? Your guests shouldn't have to ask.
It never hurts to strive for excellence..
We change towels after three days unless they are not on the hooks that say "to reuse towel". If we aren't sure, we take them. Or if we have enough for a wash, we take them. Very few people don't reuse towels anymore. I mean... you showered, it's still clean, just damp. The hand towel at the side of the sink is always changed daily and so is any stained towel (since some women seem to insist on using my beautiful white towels for removing make-up in spite of the fact that we supply makeup removal wipes.) And we change washcloths if they are used. But if you leave a towel on the hook that says to reuse, we assume you can read. Doesn't excuse them from simply asking for new towels if they wanted them, after they made the error. We can't simply read minds. In this case, I know that they left it on the hooks, so we left them.
The beds are made daily, if they are clear of personal items, like laptops. If we can straighten it with the personal items on the bed, we do. If we can't, it is left. We don't remake the formal bed daily. We usually put the extra pillows from the formal bed away. (We have Euros, shams and pillows on each bed when they arrive.) B&Bs here are generally less formal than hotels (and cheaper than hotels). And in this case, they left a laptop and personal items on the bed. And if I had moved the laptop, would they then have screamed about our touching/breaking their laptop?
Their version of hovering is apparently our asking if they enjoyed their evening or if they need any help or a suggestion. It's clear to us that they were looking for the anonymous hotel experience at a B&B.
 
I think we coined the term on this forum yonks ago "helo-innkeepers." It is a fine line and you need to be a mind reader. One guest will say "We did not receive adequate attention" whilst the other will say "the hosts hovered" from the very same table! The very same Day! To those who seemingly missed it all we call it "the innkeeper song and dance and magic tricks."
Unless they are there numerous nights, it is hard to decipher that secret code.
I helo'd over these Brooklyn guests each day at breakfast, I believe they loved the attention, the humor, the insights, and so on. Other guests, not so much, if they have virtually no feedback or interaction I know they do not want interaction, so I leave them to their own devices.
and yet, some WANT IT but are not engaging enough...maybe they are shy and still want the attention. I won't go for that, I am pleasant hospitable and offer it all up to them, it is up to them to recipricate in some fashion "ie give me a clue!" :)
 
As others said, we are not mind readers and can only do our best to get a feel for what they want. Some want you to hand hold them the entire time they are with you, others wish they never see you except check in and departure. We are all different and so are our guests.
It is also up to the guest to give you some indication of what they want/need in their experience with you. If the heat is up too high (stated in another thread) then it is their responsiblility to hunt out the innkeeper to make it right - we are not in their rooms, we do not know their comfort level...they need to be able to let you know to make them comphy.
As for the bed making, I do not like to touch guests belongings. They know (well most) that most lodgings straighten rooms - make beds, change towels etc.. yet some guests make the job virtually impossible in the way they leave the room. I am like Eric, I will do my best to make the bed without touching their belongings. When that is impossible, I will tiddy up pillows, bathroom etc. I make it known I was in there by how other areas are clean, fluffed, this way if I miss them when they come in they can see housekeeping was there. If I do see them, I explain why they will find the bed unmade and offer to come up to make it once they remove their belongings. When I do this, I commonly get - oh we didn't realize you did housekeeping, no problem! Humm I do have a note in the bathroom regarding reuse or exchange of towels - what does that mean?
 
As others said, we are not mind readers and can only do our best to get a feel for what they want. Some want you to hand hold them the entire time they are with you, others wish they never see you except check in and departure. We are all different and so are our guests.
It is also up to the guest to give you some indication of what they want/need in their experience with you. If the heat is up too high (stated in another thread) then it is their responsiblility to hunt out the innkeeper to make it right - we are not in their rooms, we do not know their comfort level...they need to be able to let you know to make them comphy.
As for the bed making, I do not like to touch guests belongings. They know (well most) that most lodgings straighten rooms - make beds, change towels etc.. yet some guests make the job virtually impossible in the way they leave the room. I am like Eric, I will do my best to make the bed without touching their belongings. When that is impossible, I will tiddy up pillows, bathroom etc. I make it known I was in there by how other areas are clean, fluffed, this way if I miss them when they come in they can see housekeeping was there. If I do see them, I explain why they will find the bed unmade and offer to come up to make it once they remove their belongings. When I do this, I commonly get - oh we didn't realize you did housekeeping, no problem! Humm I do have a note in the bathroom regarding reuse or exchange of towels - what does that mean?.
I hope guests 'get' when I make one bed in the room and leave the other that I didn't 'forget' it but that the one bed had nothing on it while the other was covered in clothing and electronics!
 
When you say "outed".......to whom ?......The B&B world of guests ?......to your families ?..........to them ?
apparently it was about them..........so who cares ?.......they're the ones with the problem.
Just do the standard business response....over look the "outing" part of the whole thing.....
Remember.......small minds make big things over nothing.
Our family knows. I just don't think that we need to have it broadcast. It's something we keep to ourselves. We don't throw it in guest's face (unless they ask).
We are just two guys who run a B&B. I don't want people to think it's a Gay B&B, it's just a B&B and the owners are two men, we don't discriminate against our guests. And I just don't think it's appropriate to post it like that. And frankly, the fact that she has an agenda means that the review shouldn't be posted.
I'm still hoping that TA has some scruples and removes it. Frankly, I think that TA owes me an apology for publishing it in the first place.... as I said, if they had written black, moslem etc. They wouldn't have published it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they would. Maybe it's a question that a newspaper or magazine should be asking them.
.
Good Luck. ....use their own rules against them, with dealing with TA....
Other than that.....
I wouldn't sweat it or shed a tear over this whole thing....as many here mentioned. You have numerous favorable reviews.....those will tell the story of your place.
If you haven't done a management response yet.....plan to?....don't respond to the "outing" .....if you do respond to it.....you've given power and credence to their comment....when none is needed.....Not commenting about it. I think you win, they lose.
 
Ever feel like you really really want to hit yourself in the head? Another review, but a good one that says “Maybe next time I won't avoid the hosts so much!” and commenting that maybe she missed out by not chatting more to get the insider tips. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't. And of course, all everyone seems to be talking about is my talking to them.... too much or too little. Argh!
Well, at least that other review is no longer at the top of the pile. I've had a bunch of really nice reviews of late.... just posted with dates before that other one.
 
Eric, I think that we all talk too much. Why else would we get into a people business? No worries.
 
Ever feel like you really really want to hit yourself in the head? Another review, but a good one that says “Maybe next time I won't avoid the hosts so much!” and commenting that maybe she missed out by not chatting more to get the insider tips. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't. And of course, all everyone seems to be talking about is my talking to them.... too much or too little. Argh!
Well, at least that other review is no longer at the top of the pile. I've had a bunch of really nice reviews of late.... just posted with dates before that other one..
Yes, it is exactly that way. You find that guests you really interacted with felt smothered/neglected. Can't win.
 
Ever feel like you really really want to hit yourself in the head? Another review, but a good one that says “Maybe next time I won't avoid the hosts so much!” and commenting that maybe she missed out by not chatting more to get the insider tips. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't. And of course, all everyone seems to be talking about is my talking to them.... too much or too little. Argh!
Well, at least that other review is no longer at the top of the pile. I've had a bunch of really nice reviews of late.... just posted with dates before that other one..
Yes, it is exactly that way. You find that guests you really interacted with felt smothered/neglected. Can't win.
.
We are having such a rush of this right now...half the house seeming delighted beyond anything, and the other half skulking around looking miserable. I'm just doing my thing and they can all do what they like. You can't be everybody's everything.
 
Just an update. After 20 days TA finally removed the review. Still haven't contacted me. Frankly, after leaving the review up for so long, I honestly think they owe me an apology as well, but maybe that is just my morals. And of course, she could republish her lies just without the slant showing.
Another owner in FL was dealing with a racist review that TA published as well. It's amazing what they will publish. It appears that his has also been removed today.
I'm starting to wonder if they were actually on vacation and no one is in the office or maybe they are really weeks behind? At least two guests have emailed me about the fact that their reviews were written and submitted and have yet to be published. The bad review seems to have egged a few on to help us.
 
Just an update. After 20 days TA finally removed the review. Still haven't contacted me. Frankly, after leaving the review up for so long, I honestly think they owe me an apology as well, but maybe that is just my morals. And of course, she could republish her lies just without the slant showing.
Another owner in FL was dealing with a racist review that TA published as well. It's amazing what they will publish. It appears that his has also been removed today.
I'm starting to wonder if they were actually on vacation and no one is in the office or maybe they are really weeks behind? At least two guests have emailed me about the fact that their reviews were written and submitted and have yet to be published. The bad review seems to have egged a few on to help us..
We've had guests send us a copy of the TA review they wrote, many of which never showed up. They won't show up if the guests write them while they are here. Those never show up.
It always seems like the bad reviews go up fast, but then we just don't know how many bad reviews we're missing, do we?
 
One more update. Apparently TA told her to remove her remark. She republished it, but of course now her agenda isn't there. I have submitted a management response. Only now I don't know which is worse, her original review where you could see her agenda or the new review where her discrimination isn't showing, but he lies are. I can't win. But at least I can put up a management response to it.
 
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