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I agree with JBanczak. If you're doing a good job, you're guests will be quite happy to write a review for you. If they love you, they will want other people to know it. While I send an email to all departing guests, the majority do not write a review...even if they left a glowing note in the room journal. Mostly the email is a "thanks for staying with us, we appreciate your business, it's nice people like you that continue to make innkeeping such a pleasure for us...by the way, if you have a moment, we would appreciate you reviewing your stay for other travelers" kind of thing (fluffed up, of course). After that one email, I don't pester.
I know many Innkeepers don't ask because they're afraid of what the reviews will say...and some take it very personally if even one tiny little negative is mentioned...even in a positive overall review...so they would rather nothing get posted at all. But, the overwhelming majority use reviews to decide where to stay...I know my guests do...in fact the couple I just checked in said "It was obvious to us by reading your reviews that this was the place for us". You really can't buy that kind of positive exposure (well, I guess you could, if you were a cheater).
It's just another form of self-marketing, and one that costs you nothing. If you're confident in yourself and your place, then there's nothing to lose. Like review sites, or hate them, they're sticking around and people are going to continue to use them, so you may as well use them to YOUR advantage..
"If you're doing a good job, you're guests will be quite happy to write a review for you. If they love you, they will want other people to know it."
Now if that were really true, wouldn't 99% of us doing a good or great job, have guests who first ask us "how can I help promote your B&B?", then rush home and flood every review venue with glowing reviews?
We have guests who have been here 8 or 9 times in four years and didn't write a review for us until after their last stay. We've still never asked them to do it either. We just don't feel its our right to expect anything of or obligate our guests any further than the payment for the room, sharing whatever camaraderie they feel comfortable sharing with us while here and letting us know if there is anything we can do make their stay more enjoyable.
"Mostly the email is a "thanks for staying with us, we appreciate your business, it's nice people like you that continue to make innkeeping such a pleasure for us...by the way, if you have a moment, we would appreciate you reviewing your stay for other travelers" kind of thing (fluffed up, of course)."
That seems like a very nice way of putting it.
We have done a similar thank you but only put the review request in the one for people who volunteered that they found us and chose us because of reviews they read or online directories that offer reviews. We do give out the review card that B&B.com supplies us with, but I 'd say its about 1 out of 50 that take the time to fill it out.
"After that one email, I don't pester."
I would think most guests really appreciate the lack of pressure you apply.
"I know many Innkeepers don't ask because they're afraid of what the reviews will say...and some take it very personally if even one tiny little negative is mentioned...even in a positive overall review...so they would rather nothing get posted at all."
I can't agree with or begin to understand that mindset. We don't associate with any innkeepers who are that fixated on TA or in garnering reviews to begin with. Our closest colleagues and us share a very similar approach to both innkeeper and honoring the intended and inferred objectivity of consumer driven reviews.
I actually have grown to appreciate the two negative reviews out of 58 we've received on TA. They serve as warning flags to the same kind of inconsiderate, rude, drunken, disrespectful louts who wrote them to pick somewhere else to stay. They also act as proof to all the potential great guests out there who have had to share a B&B with lousy guests that we are innkeepers who have enough self-respect for ourselves and our other guests staying here that really bad behavior will not be tolerated even with the veiled or overt threat of a bad review hanging over our heads.
"But, the overwhelming majority use reviews to decide where to stay..."
I don't doubt that for a minute and it is our experience here as well. But that isn't the points or what i borught up in my response to John's post. I was posing questions about why most people DON"T write reviews. I think the reasons are a lot more innocent than what you've just suggested.
"It was obvious to us by reading your reviews that this was the place for us".
Like I said, if I had a nickel for every guest who has told us that and NOT written a review themselves, we'd be retired already. Which hopefully not to get too circular leads us back to the original source of comments.
"You really can't buy that kind of positive exposure (well, I guess you could, if you were a cheater).
"It's just another form of self-marketing, and one that costs you nothing."
No, its supposed to be a free, consumer driven portal designed to allow travelers the opportunity to share their experiences that deserves a lot more respect by business owners than it is currently receiving. Its been hijacked by manipulative, opportunistic business owners who feel entitled to claim it as a "form of self-marketing" to the detriment of its veracity and utlimately its trustworthiness. Its a golden goose whose integrity should be honored way more than I see happening.
"If you're confident in yourself and your place, then there's nothing to lose."
Confidence in one's self and business has no bearing on us all being entitled to manipulate the process in any way for our own ends.
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God, there is nothing more annoying than someone who feels that they need to take every single sentence that you write and refute it, statement by statement. And that's all I'm gonna say about that!
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"Opinions, are always honest, sometimes blunt and usually valuable."
 
That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..
I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry
embaressed_smile.gif

 
That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..
I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry
embaressed_smile.gif

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Yes, you can post a mgmt response to any TA review. Keep this in mind when you do...try to not respond as if you are speaking to the person who wrote the review, but to all the people who will be reading it afterwards. If the problems were legit, say how you have fixed them (if fixable). If you're upset, write the review on paper and reread it the next day before you post it. You don't want to sound like a vindictive innkeeper! You can also get someone 'neutral' to read your response before you post it. (I did that and sent it to a bunch of innkeepers on this forum who helped me to craft a better response.)
Also, you can click the link in the review 'about the reviewer' and email the guests from there to ask questions (very nicely) to see if they can elaborate on the problem or to offer whatever 'compensation' you want. Altho, the general feeling is, I think, if a guest's first telling of a problem is online for the world to see, tough toenails on getting anything from the inn.
 
I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
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Tim_Toad_HLB said:
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
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JBanczak said:
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding!
Cancellation Policies!
Most of us don't know if we can even make it to a conference until last minute so the policies are what put many off. Guests tell me this ALL THE TIME, the 14 day or worse cancellation policy puts them off BnB's!
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Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
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Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
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Joe Bloggs said:
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
It was a Tuesday in December in Napa... The B&B we stayed at didn't have a single person staying there besides us in all 12 rooms. They let us pick any room we liked! The conf was one day only, but some people took the opportunity to stay in Napa. There were certainly no shortage of rooms as the inn next door was empty as well.
Now it could have been a result of pricing - not sure if the BB's had midweek discounts - that is another story - but price was never mentioned as a reason. The reason given was literally it was too hard to book...
 
I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.
Tim_Toad_HLB said:
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
.
JBanczak said:
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding!
Cancellation Policies!
Most of us don't know if we can even make it to a conference until last minute so the policies are what put many off. Guests tell me this ALL THE TIME, the 14 day or worse cancellation policy puts them off BnB's!
.
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
.
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
.
Joe Bloggs said:
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
It was a Tuesday in December in Napa... The B&B we stayed at didn't have a single person staying there besides us in all 12 rooms. They let us pick any room we liked! The conf was one day only, but some people took the opportunity to stay in Napa. There were certainly no shortage of rooms as the inn next door was empty as well.
Now it could have been a result of pricing - not sure if the BB's had midweek discounts - that is another story - but price was never mentioned as a reason. The reason given was literally it was too hard to book...
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I've had guests call to say they were tired of looking at so many different websites and they just wanted to book. I would never hear, 'It was too hard to book, ' because those folks have moved on.
Did they say WHAT was too hard to book? HOW it was too hard? That is certainly a topic worth delving into. There should be some sort of poll done on that topic to find out what we're doing wrong so we can fix it before more guests go to a hotel. Maybe there were TOO many choices?
Someone posted the link to that book 'Don't Make Me Think' and a lot of us have tried to make our websites easier to read and have also tried making it easier to contact us via email and phone.
 
I know many Innkeepers don't ask because they're afraid of what the reviews will say..
No, because many of us do not want to ask the guests for something, we give to them and do not feel right asking them to "DO" something, it negates all that we feel we have done for them here.
That is what I have heard many of the innkeepers on this forum say. They are not worried, they give outstanding service as their presence on this forum demonstrates - always being ahead of the pack, they do not want to put that obligation on the guest..
Joe Bloggs said:


No, because many of us do not want to ask the guests for something, we give to them and do not feel right asking them to "DO" something, it negates all that we feel we have done for them here.
That is what I have heard many of the innkeepers on this forum say. They are not worried, they give outstanding service as their presence on this forum demonstrates - always being ahead of the pack, they do not want to put that obligation on the guest.
Wow!
thumbs_up.gif

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I was at the PAII conference in Atlanta this year. TA did not give themselves the "800 lb gorilla" name, the folks st the conference did. It was a joke. There was someone suited up as a gorilla at the panel discussion that TA participated at. The name has stuck.
As mentioned before, TA and other review venues are NOT going away. Love 'em or hate 'em, they are tools that I rely on when I travel. I have never stayed at a #1 rated place, and I have often stayed at places that have had negative reviews. The management responses are the most useful tool for me, as I am able to see the temperment of the owner/manager to get a feel for the "fit".
TA is there for the traveler, not the owner, and the traveler's needs will always be their focus. Their research shows that management response to reviews are very important to their users. People polled said that the response was always more important to them than the negative review, so I guess I am not alone in my use of these responses. Most users are also tuned in to the fact that a property with nothing but tons of flowery reviews is a warning sign that something is fishy or not real.
If owners can get past not being ranked #1, and get over the hurt and anger of a bad review, justified or not, they can begin to learn the fine art of marketing to the kind of guests they want to attract by thoughtful response to a negative review.
My two pesos worth.
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TA may not have given themselves the 800 lb gorilla name, but they certainly must relate to it or they wouldn't keep using it.
Their newest thing is that they suggested that we provide a management response to every review. Thanking those who wrote positive reviews as well as responding to the negative ones. As if there isn't enough to wade through on the site already. I've seen hotels who actually do this and it gets very boring very fast because there is only so much you can say after awhile.
 
What a great thread. Couldn't resist added my two cents (or maybe three):
1. A bit of Internet history: When the world-wide web (WWW) first became popular about 25 years ago, people were still used to paying for information and access. You originally had to PAY to buy Netscape Navigator; now you download browsers for free. You also paid a monthly fee to use services like AOL and others. With the internet boom that led up to the millienium, zillions of dollars in venture capital money changed the equation, and consumers became accustomed to getting all content for free. After the boom went bust, it became clear that people still loved using the Internet in ever-increasing numbers, but the funding stream had to change. People weren't about to go back to paying for content, but investors needed to see a return on their money. Generally, the answer came with the pay-per-click model started by others but made hugely popular by Google. This same unwillingness of consumers to pay for content is a major issue for the newspaper and publishing industry right now. In short, content that is not paid for by users of that content can be extremely useful, but rarely as objective as content that is totally independent. TripAdvisor is of course an excellent example -- they need to keep consumers happy with lots of reviews and a bit of controversy (like the lists of the worst hotels in the world) but their income comes from the companies that pay everytime someone clicks a link on a TripAdvisor page, not when a consumer has to open another browser tab to Google a property name.
2. A bit of review history: Perhaps the earliest review-driven guides were those launched by Tim and Nina Zagat in 1979, which grew into an extensive guidebook series covering restaurants primarily, but hotels, nightlife, and attractions too. It's independent because you have to pay to access the information, either online or in published guidebooks, but it works only because it's so well established, and I'm sure they are feeling the pinch of competition to free access sites. My own guidebooks, published from 1986-1999, were a combination of descriptions that I wrote and edited reviews from guests. Then, as now, it was difficult to get guests to write, even though folks loved seeing their names in print, and top contributors were rewarded with free books.
3. Cancellation policies: I have heard innkeepers complaining about the trend to last-minute bookings for the last 20 years, and of course, the Internet and various economic upheavals have only accelerated the trend. On the other hand, consider the fact that consumers get "punished" for booking ahead with tough cancel fees, while last minute bookers generally have no problem finding a room, often at a better rate. Not the best application of the carrot/stick policy! Historically, I think that the one- and two-week cancellation policies date to an era when there was no practical way to resell a room in the last minute -- now, with email lists, website exposure, and extended distribution options, maybe it's time to rethink those policies.
4. Conference accommodation: In my experience, innkeepers often stay at the conference hotel because the sponsoring association asks them to do so! If the association fills the guest room quota, the breakout rooms are free -- if not, the association is charged a hefty rental fee. I don't think that cancel policies have much to do with it. When a conference is held at a conference center with no hotel connection, innkeepers (and vendors!) do stay at local B&Bs.
Hope that the above overview is helpful. Sorry if I went on too long.
Sandy
 
I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.
Tim_Toad_HLB said:
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
.
JBanczak said:
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding!
Cancellation Policies!
Most of us don't know if we can even make it to a conference until last minute so the policies are what put many off. Guests tell me this ALL THE TIME, the 14 day or worse cancellation policy puts them off BnB's!
.
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
.
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
.
Joe Bloggs said:
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
It was a Tuesday in December in Napa... The B&B we stayed at didn't have a single person staying there besides us in all 12 rooms. They let us pick any room we liked! The conf was one day only, but some people took the opportunity to stay in Napa. There were certainly no shortage of rooms as the inn next door was empty as well.
Now it could have been a result of pricing - not sure if the BB's had midweek discounts - that is another story - but price was never mentioned as a reason. The reason given was literally it was too hard to book...
.
I've had guests call to say they were tired of looking at so many different websites and they just wanted to book. I would never hear, 'It was too hard to book, ' because those folks have moved on.
Did they say WHAT was too hard to book? HOW it was too hard? That is certainly a topic worth delving into. There should be some sort of poll done on that topic to find out what we're doing wrong so we can fix it before more guests go to a hotel. Maybe there were TOO many choices?
Someone posted the link to that book 'Don't Make Me Think' and a lot of us have tried to make our websites easier to read and have also tried making it easier to contact us via email and phone.
.
Bree said:
I've had guests call to say they were tired of looking at so many different websites and they just wanted to book. I would never hear, 'It was too hard to book, ' because those folks have moved on.
Did they say WHAT was too hard to book? HOW it was too hard? That is certainly a topic worth delving into. There should be some sort of poll done on that topic to find out what we're doing wrong so we can fix it before more guests go to a hotel. Maybe there were TOO many choices?
Someone posted the link to that book 'Don't Make Me Think' and a lot of us have tried to make our websites easier to read and have also tried making it easier to contact us via email and phone.
We've done pretty extensive surveys on this already. Most of the innkeepers on this forum are taking care of the "too hard to book" problem, so this is kind of preaching to the educated choir... it is those that are not on forums like this that tend to have the problem! But...
* Guests strongly prefer confirmed bookings to requests - still the majority of properties either have no online booking, or request-based systems
* Guests are nervous to put their credit card on any site - especially small business - this being the big reason we use Verisign and McAfee on every property checkout page
* Guests prefer consolidated availability over searching multiple sites
Those are the biggies!
 
I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.
Tim_Toad_HLB said:
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
.
JBanczak said:
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding!
Cancellation Policies!
Most of us don't know if we can even make it to a conference until last minute so the policies are what put many off. Guests tell me this ALL THE TIME, the 14 day or worse cancellation policy puts them off BnB's!
.
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
.
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
.
Joe Bloggs said:
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
It was a Tuesday in December in Napa... The B&B we stayed at didn't have a single person staying there besides us in all 12 rooms. They let us pick any room we liked! The conf was one day only, but some people took the opportunity to stay in Napa. There were certainly no shortage of rooms as the inn next door was empty as well.
Now it could have been a result of pricing - not sure if the BB's had midweek discounts - that is another story - but price was never mentioned as a reason. The reason given was literally it was too hard to book...
.
I've had guests call to say they were tired of looking at so many different websites and they just wanted to book. I would never hear, 'It was too hard to book, ' because those folks have moved on.
Did they say WHAT was too hard to book? HOW it was too hard? That is certainly a topic worth delving into. There should be some sort of poll done on that topic to find out what we're doing wrong so we can fix it before more guests go to a hotel. Maybe there were TOO many choices?
Someone posted the link to that book 'Don't Make Me Think' and a lot of us have tried to make our websites easier to read and have also tried making it easier to contact us via email and phone.
.
Some people have a hard time deciding what clothes to wear. It takes all kinds, eh?
One of the up and coming PAII goals is to design a national campaign to bring about B&B awareness, so to speak, and this should help everyone pull from the hotel crowd to win them over, permanently I hope. Something along the lines of, "Got Milk?"
This is just another way PAII will benefit the entire industry, not just its members, and from my point of view, another reason to join and support their efforts.
Go, Jay, Go!
 
I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.
Tim_Toad_HLB said:
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
.
JBanczak said:
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding!
Cancellation Policies!
Most of us don't know if we can even make it to a conference until last minute so the policies are what put many off. Guests tell me this ALL THE TIME, the 14 day or worse cancellation policy puts them off BnB's!
.
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
.
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
.
Joe Bloggs said:
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
It was a Tuesday in December in Napa... The B&B we stayed at didn't have a single person staying there besides us in all 12 rooms. They let us pick any room we liked! The conf was one day only, but some people took the opportunity to stay in Napa. There were certainly no shortage of rooms as the inn next door was empty as well.
Now it could have been a result of pricing - not sure if the BB's had midweek discounts - that is another story - but price was never mentioned as a reason. The reason given was literally it was too hard to book...
.
I've had guests call to say they were tired of looking at so many different websites and they just wanted to book. I would never hear, 'It was too hard to book, ' because those folks have moved on.
Did they say WHAT was too hard to book? HOW it was too hard? That is certainly a topic worth delving into. There should be some sort of poll done on that topic to find out what we're doing wrong so we can fix it before more guests go to a hotel. Maybe there were TOO many choices?
Someone posted the link to that book 'Don't Make Me Think' and a lot of us have tried to make our websites easier to read and have also tried making it easier to contact us via email and phone.
.
Some people have a hard time deciding what clothes to wear. It takes all kinds, eh?
One of the up and coming PAII goals is to design a national campaign to bring about B&B awareness, so to speak, and this should help everyone pull from the hotel crowd to win them over, permanently I hope. Something along the lines of, "Got Milk?"
This is just another way PAII will benefit the entire industry, not just its members, and from my point of view, another reason to join and support their efforts.
Go, Jay, Go!
.
What, Got B&B? That doesn't even make sense. Sorry.
 
I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.
Tim_Toad_HLB said:
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
.
JBanczak said:
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding!
Cancellation Policies!
Most of us don't know if we can even make it to a conference until last minute so the policies are what put many off. Guests tell me this ALL THE TIME, the 14 day or worse cancellation policy puts them off BnB's!
.
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
.
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
.
Joe Bloggs said:
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
It was a Tuesday in December in Napa... The B&B we stayed at didn't have a single person staying there besides us in all 12 rooms. They let us pick any room we liked! The conf was one day only, but some people took the opportunity to stay in Napa. There were certainly no shortage of rooms as the inn next door was empty as well.
Now it could have been a result of pricing - not sure if the BB's had midweek discounts - that is another story - but price was never mentioned as a reason. The reason given was literally it was too hard to book...
.
I've had guests call to say they were tired of looking at so many different websites and they just wanted to book. I would never hear, 'It was too hard to book, ' because those folks have moved on.
Did they say WHAT was too hard to book? HOW it was too hard? That is certainly a topic worth delving into. There should be some sort of poll done on that topic to find out what we're doing wrong so we can fix it before more guests go to a hotel. Maybe there were TOO many choices?
Someone posted the link to that book 'Don't Make Me Think' and a lot of us have tried to make our websites easier to read and have also tried making it easier to contact us via email and phone.
.
Some people have a hard time deciding what clothes to wear. It takes all kinds, eh?
One of the up and coming PAII goals is to design a national campaign to bring about B&B awareness, so to speak, and this should help everyone pull from the hotel crowd to win them over, permanently I hope. Something along the lines of, "Got Milk?"
This is just another way PAII will benefit the entire industry, not just its members, and from my point of view, another reason to join and support their efforts.
Go, Jay, Go!
.
What, Got B&B? That doesn't even make sense. Sorry.
.
I am sorry to mislead you. What I was alluding to say is - it will be a national campaign, like "Got Milk" or the ones you have seen done by the National Beef Council. Generic awareness. Think outside the box, Sweetie. You seem a little miffed today.
 
I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.
Tim_Toad_HLB said:
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
.
JBanczak said:
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding!
Cancellation Policies!
Most of us don't know if we can even make it to a conference until last minute so the policies are what put many off. Guests tell me this ALL THE TIME, the 14 day or worse cancellation policy puts them off BnB's!
.
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
.
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
.
Joe Bloggs said:
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
It was a Tuesday in December in Napa... The B&B we stayed at didn't have a single person staying there besides us in all 12 rooms. They let us pick any room we liked! The conf was one day only, but some people took the opportunity to stay in Napa. There were certainly no shortage of rooms as the inn next door was empty as well.
Now it could have been a result of pricing - not sure if the BB's had midweek discounts - that is another story - but price was never mentioned as a reason. The reason given was literally it was too hard to book...
.
I've had guests call to say they were tired of looking at so many different websites and they just wanted to book. I would never hear, 'It was too hard to book, ' because those folks have moved on.
Did they say WHAT was too hard to book? HOW it was too hard? That is certainly a topic worth delving into. There should be some sort of poll done on that topic to find out what we're doing wrong so we can fix it before more guests go to a hotel. Maybe there were TOO many choices?
Someone posted the link to that book 'Don't Make Me Think' and a lot of us have tried to make our websites easier to read and have also tried making it easier to contact us via email and phone.
.
Some people have a hard time deciding what clothes to wear. It takes all kinds, eh?
One of the up and coming PAII goals is to design a national campaign to bring about B&B awareness, so to speak, and this should help everyone pull from the hotel crowd to win them over, permanently I hope. Something along the lines of, "Got Milk?"
This is just another way PAII will benefit the entire industry, not just its members, and from my point of view, another reason to join and support their efforts.
Go, Jay, Go!
.
What, Got B&B? That doesn't even make sense. Sorry.
.
I am sorry to mislead you. What I was alluding to say is - it will be a national campaign, like "Got Milk" or the ones you have seen done by the National Beef Council. Generic awareness. Think outside the box, Sweetie. You seem a little miffed today.
.
aieechihuahua said:
I am sorry to mislead you. What I was alluding to say is - it will be a national campaign, like "Got Milk" or the ones you have seen done by the National Beef Council. Generic awareness. Think outside the box, Sweetie. You seem a little miffed today.
I'm all for it! Just getting the term B&B or Bed and Breakfast into everyone's mindsets will be a huge stride.
 
I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.
Tim_Toad_HLB said:
JBanczak said:
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
.
JBanczak said:
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding!
Cancellation Policies!
Most of us don't know if we can even make it to a conference until last minute so the policies are what put many off. Guests tell me this ALL THE TIME, the 14 day or worse cancellation policy puts them off BnB's!
.
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
.
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
.
Joe Bloggs said:
Bree said:
Cancellation policies...we changed ours from 14 to 7 days.
Another reason innkeepers might have chosen the hotels in Napa is the price of a B&B in Napa! I'm guessing there was some sort of negotiated rate at the hotels. Does anyone ever contact B&B's near a convention site and ask if they are willing to give a better rate for professionals in the same field?
Also time frames to be at the conference or meetings on time. Not sure what time they were held. Most BnB's are flexible, not all. Maybe the BnB's had a minimum stay as well? Price, like you say is a big factor. I would not stay at a BnB without my S.O.
It was a Tuesday in December in Napa... The B&B we stayed at didn't have a single person staying there besides us in all 12 rooms. They let us pick any room we liked! The conf was one day only, but some people took the opportunity to stay in Napa. There were certainly no shortage of rooms as the inn next door was empty as well.
Now it could have been a result of pricing - not sure if the BB's had midweek discounts - that is another story - but price was never mentioned as a reason. The reason given was literally it was too hard to book...
.
I've had guests call to say they were tired of looking at so many different websites and they just wanted to book. I would never hear, 'It was too hard to book, ' because those folks have moved on.
Did they say WHAT was too hard to book? HOW it was too hard? That is certainly a topic worth delving into. There should be some sort of poll done on that topic to find out what we're doing wrong so we can fix it before more guests go to a hotel. Maybe there were TOO many choices?
Someone posted the link to that book 'Don't Make Me Think' and a lot of us have tried to make our websites easier to read and have also tried making it easier to contact us via email and phone.
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Some people have a hard time deciding what clothes to wear. It takes all kinds, eh?
One of the up and coming PAII goals is to design a national campaign to bring about B&B awareness, so to speak, and this should help everyone pull from the hotel crowd to win them over, permanently I hope. Something along the lines of, "Got Milk?"
This is just another way PAII will benefit the entire industry, not just its members, and from my point of view, another reason to join and support their efforts.
Go, Jay, Go!
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aieechihuahua said:
This is just another way PAII will benefit the entire industry, not just its members, and from my point of view, another reason to join and support their efforts.
Go, Jay, Go!
We get it. You have an agenda but enough with the incessant cheerleading already. It's like you just came over here to push PAII.
 
That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..
I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry
embaressed_smile.gif

.
A bad review can be pulled off by the author. I do know of inns who contacted the origin of a bad review and after talking with them it turned out that it was not really anything the inn did or didn't do, just a bad weekend, and the guest was thoughtful enough to pull the review. It happens.
 
That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..
I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry
embaressed_smile.gif

.
A bad review can be pulled off by the author. I do know of inns who contacted the origin of a bad review and after talking with them it turned out that it was not really anything the inn did or didn't do, just a bad weekend, and the guest was thoughtful enough to pull the review. It happens.
.
It certainly can happen and does a lot I bet. I just wish the people would think about the cost for the Innkeeper. I got a bad review because people were smoking outside the cottage? Would it have been better they smoked inside? People had a beer outside and enjoyed an evening? It makes so little sense. I get a bad review because the walk to the beach is 600 yards long? It says that on my website. I am amazed at people sometimes. You do everything you can to make them feel right at home and this is the thanks. Annonymously too the chickens.
errrr....thank you for letting me rant. Back to the original programming, I guess
 
That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..
I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry
embaressed_smile.gif

.
Yes, you can post a mgmt response to any TA review. Keep this in mind when you do...try to not respond as if you are speaking to the person who wrote the review, but to all the people who will be reading it afterwards. If the problems were legit, say how you have fixed them (if fixable). If you're upset, write the review on paper and reread it the next day before you post it. You don't want to sound like a vindictive innkeeper! You can also get someone 'neutral' to read your response before you post it. (I did that and sent it to a bunch of innkeepers on this forum who helped me to craft a better response.)
Also, you can click the link in the review 'about the reviewer' and email the guests from there to ask questions (very nicely) to see if they can elaborate on the problem or to offer whatever 'compensation' you want. Altho, the general feeling is, I think, if a guest's first telling of a problem is online for the world to see, tough toenails on getting anything from the inn.
.
Bree, thank you so much for all that you shared with me here. It is very much appreciated. I would hate to to come off like a doofus and all crazy with anger. Thank you!
 
That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..
I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry
embaressed_smile.gif

.
Yes, you can post a mgmt response to any TA review. Keep this in mind when you do...try to not respond as if you are speaking to the person who wrote the review, but to all the people who will be reading it afterwards. If the problems were legit, say how you have fixed them (if fixable). If you're upset, write the review on paper and reread it the next day before you post it. You don't want to sound like a vindictive innkeeper! You can also get someone 'neutral' to read your response before you post it. (I did that and sent it to a bunch of innkeepers on this forum who helped me to craft a better response.)
Also, you can click the link in the review 'about the reviewer' and email the guests from there to ask questions (very nicely) to see if they can elaborate on the problem or to offer whatever 'compensation' you want. Altho, the general feeling is, I think, if a guest's first telling of a problem is online for the world to see, tough toenails on getting anything from the inn.
.
Bree, thank you so much for all that you shared with me here. It is very much appreciated. I would hate to to come off like a doofus and all crazy with anger. Thank you!
.
IrisoftheWayfarer said:
Bree, thank you so much for all that you shared with me here. It is very much appreciated. I would hate to to come off like a doofus and all crazy with anger. Thank you!
Iris I like that you raised your twin boys while operating your place, we have another inn-mate here who is raising twin boys, and others with school age kids.
Do you find you have repeats in your location from summer to summer?
We are going to a cabin/cottage at First Landing State Park - at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay/Atlantic Ocean soon - we've did a cabin at a very small lake last year. We will determine which we want to do again. The lake was terrific, but we thought sand and beach and kayaking the Bay this time. (VA State Parks).
 
That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..
I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry
embaressed_smile.gif

.
Yes, you can post a mgmt response to any TA review. Keep this in mind when you do...try to not respond as if you are speaking to the person who wrote the review, but to all the people who will be reading it afterwards. If the problems were legit, say how you have fixed them (if fixable). If you're upset, write the review on paper and reread it the next day before you post it. You don't want to sound like a vindictive innkeeper! You can also get someone 'neutral' to read your response before you post it. (I did that and sent it to a bunch of innkeepers on this forum who helped me to craft a better response.)
Also, you can click the link in the review 'about the reviewer' and email the guests from there to ask questions (very nicely) to see if they can elaborate on the problem or to offer whatever 'compensation' you want. Altho, the general feeling is, I think, if a guest's first telling of a problem is online for the world to see, tough toenails on getting anything from the inn.
.
"Also, you can click the link in the review 'about the reviewer' and email the guests from there to ask questions (very nicely) to see if they can elaborate on the problem or to offer whatever 'compensation' you want."
Actually, contacting the guest through anything you found out about them via TA is a violation of the guidelines. My guess is that just like we can't offer compensation for good reviews, offering compensation to get rid of a bad review is equally forbidden.
These are the relevant parts of the TA guidelines.
" We appreciate what you're trying to do, but we have a strict privacy policy that we must adhere to. We cannot forward messages to a reviewer, alert them that you have posted a response, etc. We recommend that you include contact information with your response so the reviewer can reach you and work things out directly."
"Simply put, no. Any issues regarding the content of reviews should be addressed by writing a management response."
"If an owner wishes to use our private messaging system to send a travel-related message, the owner must adhere to all of our private messaging guidelines."
"TripAdvisor does not facilitate direct contact between owners and members of our travel community. All users on our site remain anonymous unless they decide to post their e-mail address in their review."
 
That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..
I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry
embaressed_smile.gif

.
A bad review can be pulled off by the author. I do know of inns who contacted the origin of a bad review and after talking with them it turned out that it was not really anything the inn did or didn't do, just a bad weekend, and the guest was thoughtful enough to pull the review. It happens.
.
"A bad review can be pulled off by the author."
Only if the guest does it of their own volition.
"I do know of inns who contacted the origin of a bad review and after talking with them it turned out that it was not really anything the inn did or didn't do, just a bad weekend, and the guest was thoughtful enough to pull the review. It happens."
That is a violation of the guidelines. I know of a local innkeeper who badgered a guest for a week with emails, phone calls, etc. until she relented and yanked her review. Who knows how many others received that treatment over the years since that innkeeper started jaking the system.
As with all the discussions about TA I've seen and participated in on various forums, TA IS NOT OURS TO MANIPULATE OR MESS WITH FOR OWN ENDS.
This is a free, golden goose, we all should be affording a lot more respect towards. Guests included.
When it goes punitive and not helpful by guests, they should have their motives questioned and when we try to hijack it out of self-interest, we risk damaging its integrity.
 
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