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Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
This forum has many aspiring innkeepers coming here for good sound advise. One of the main reasons for my post is to let those out there know the RISK is HIGH if they follow your lead and do this without licensing. This risk you took should not be recommended to anyone, and I do not think that it would be recommended by many (if any other) innkeepers that post here.
.
You are correct. If you don't have the stomach and wherewithall for it, and are not willing to risk everything you own, don't do it. On the other hand, if it is you ONLY option when the government decides to make your choices for you as in my case, then if you are not afraid of uncle sam, and I've learned to not be afraid of them, then you do what you have to do.
Things in life are not all cut and dried, and just because the government say so and so, does not necessarily make it the right choice, and last time I checked they are voted in BY the people FOR the people. So if you want something changed, sometimes you just gotta get into the thick of it.
That said, I'd say you are right. 90% of the people out there would never have done what I did, and never should have. Rule followers and people that cannot think outside the box or think critically should not apply. You CAN LOSE EVERYTHING! And if that stuff is what is closest to your heart and you are really worried about losing it and believe you can't succeed all over again you should probably go buy a b&b turn key.
Besides, I'd imagine anyone on this list that is selling their b&b would be a whole lot smarter buy than doing it my way. Turn key, customers coming in the door the first day you are in business, all the hard learned lessons by prior owners in the past, etc etc etc. If I was looking to run a b&b in another location I'd look for a turn key deal. I only did it that way because I had to. The government forced my hand.
.
Yes there are rules and laws everywhere. Some of course are foolish but they are still laws. I can not believe your local gov. allowed you to continue if they had already told you NO. Sorry but I just do not believe that you tried to go through the correct channels. If you had been told "no" there are many avenues to take even to take them to court.
Opening illegally has nothing to do with thinking out of the box... but you do not have to buy a turn key either. Just make sure the law is on your side before you buy. Make sure the property is zoned for a B&B or that a variance can be issued. Do you homework and be SMART.
Sorry but I have no tolerance for those that think that they are above the law. I worked hard to be in business and each illegal B&B out there puts B&B's in danger of loosing our business or for more laws that make owning a B&B unattractive. .
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
This forum has many aspiring innkeepers coming here for good sound advise. One of the main reasons for my post is to let those out there know the RISK is HIGH if they follow your lead and do this without licensing. This risk you took should not be recommended to anyone, and I do not think that it would be recommended by many (if any other) innkeepers that post here.
.
You are correct. If you don't have the stomach and wherewithall for it, and are not willing to risk everything you own, don't do it. On the other hand, if it is you ONLY option when the government decides to make your choices for you as in my case, then if you are not afraid of uncle sam, and I've learned to not be afraid of them, then you do what you have to do.
Things in life are not all cut and dried, and just because the government say so and so, does not necessarily make it the right choice, and last time I checked they are voted in BY the people FOR the people. So if you want something changed, sometimes you just gotta get into the thick of it.
That said, I'd say you are right. 90% of the people out there would never have done what I did, and never should have. Rule followers and people that cannot think outside the box or think critically should not apply. You CAN LOSE EVERYTHING! And if that stuff is what is closest to your heart and you are really worried about losing it and believe you can't succeed all over again you should probably go buy a b&b turn key.
Besides, I'd imagine anyone on this list that is selling their b&b would be a whole lot smarter buy than doing it my way. Turn key, customers coming in the door the first day you are in business, all the hard learned lessons by prior owners in the past, etc etc etc. If I was looking to run a b&b in another location I'd look for a turn key deal. I only did it that way because I had to. The government forced my hand.
.
What you did was self serving, selfish and dangerous. And that's just the tip of the iceberg! Just because you did it and got away with it is NOTHING to be proud of. You may say you're not proud of it, but oh yeah, you are. You "thought out of the box". And while you were thinking out of that box you put everyone else at risk. What you did was what this profession has been fighting against for years. If I had been in your town and knew what you had been doing, you bet your sweet a** I would have turned you in. If you couldn't get the permits to do it legally, then you should not have opened.
"I only did it that way because I had to. The government forced my hand". That's a bunch of bull. You may rationalize it that way to yourself, but all the rest of us know better. I'd rather go flip burgers than have done it your way.
To all the aspiring innkeepers out there, DO NOT THINK THIS IS AN OPTION!!
.
Ok, let me get this straight. Because I did something different than the way you did (I don't know you or your situation) I was wrong? Last time I checked this is America, where DREAMS come true. The only reason I'm successful is because I did it my way, or I would be flipping burgers.
Often things change because people don't always accept the answers they are given by people in authority who actually don't know what they are talking about!
Self serving? Yes, we are all self serving. Selfish? Uh, I guess I was thinking about myself as it is my business. Dangerous. Hmmm I've been in a whole lot of danger in my life, but when I exchanged my gun for a toilet brush, those days were over. No. I did not put anyone at risk, other than maybe taking a little business away from my competitor.
Of course you would turn me in. Less competition is always good for you.
.
Your words speak for themselves. I'm with Bree.........never mind
.
Man the welcome mat is being pulled out from underneath me!
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
This forum has many aspiring innkeepers coming here for good sound advise. One of the main reasons for my post is to let those out there know the RISK is HIGH if they follow your lead and do this without licensing. This risk you took should not be recommended to anyone, and I do not think that it would be recommended by many (if any other) innkeepers that post here.
.
You are correct. If you don't have the stomach and wherewithall for it, and are not willing to risk everything you own, don't do it. On the other hand, if it is you ONLY option when the government decides to make your choices for you as in my case, then if you are not afraid of uncle sam, and I've learned to not be afraid of them, then you do what you have to do.
Things in life are not all cut and dried, and just because the government say so and so, does not necessarily make it the right choice, and last time I checked they are voted in BY the people FOR the people. So if you want something changed, sometimes you just gotta get into the thick of it.
That said, I'd say you are right. 90% of the people out there would never have done what I did, and never should have. Rule followers and people that cannot think outside the box or think critically should not apply. You CAN LOSE EVERYTHING! And if that stuff is what is closest to your heart and you are really worried about losing it and believe you can't succeed all over again you should probably go buy a b&b turn key.
Besides, I'd imagine anyone on this list that is selling their b&b would be a whole lot smarter buy than doing it my way. Turn key, customers coming in the door the first day you are in business, all the hard learned lessons by prior owners in the past, etc etc etc. If I was looking to run a b&b in another location I'd look for a turn key deal. I only did it that way because I had to. The government forced my hand.
.
Yes there are rules and laws everywhere. Some of course are foolish but they are still laws. I can not believe your local gov. allowed you to continue if they had already told you NO. Sorry but I just do not believe that you tried to go through the correct channels. If you had been told "no" there are many avenues to take even to take them to court.
Opening illegally has nothing to do with thinking out of the box... but you do not have to buy a turn key either. Just make sure the law is on your side before you buy. Make sure the property is zoned for a B&B or that a variance can be issued. Do you homework and be SMART.
Sorry but I have no tolerance for those that think that they are above the law. I worked hard to be in business and each illegal B&B out there puts B&B's in danger of loosing our business or for more laws that make owning a B&B unattractive. .
.
Well, calling me a liar is of course your privilidge.
However, let me give you a little facts. I don't know what state you are in, but I happen to be in one of, if not the most most restrictive state in the union.
Stage 1
I had 40 acres of land (55now) with one building on it. The government said. That's it, thats all you can build. I said baloney. I built what I wanted w/o their permission.
Stage 2
Government says, you can't do that, tear it down is your only option. (I'm talking with people at the bottom of the food chain in the government at this time)
Stage 3
I talk with government at the top of the food chain and they say Oh building those is ok, matter of fact you can go ahead and build as many as youwant.
the business is the problem
Stage 4
I find out that one of the 6 top government officials in our area of several million people has decided he wants our area to go back to wilderness, hence the reason for the restriction of building, business etc.
I go to him, show him I am a real person, that we are not moving or selling our property to the forest service in this lifetime...etc etc, and finally they agree to let me go thru the legal process to be legal, even though they don't like it because it is reasonable.(I've found most people in government to be reasonable if they are toward the top.)
So, you can kick me off the site if you want since you don't like my way of doing things, but I'm just a little different from the rest. sw
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
This forum has many aspiring innkeepers coming here for good sound advise. One of the main reasons for my post is to let those out there know the RISK is HIGH if they follow your lead and do this without licensing. This risk you took should not be recommended to anyone, and I do not think that it would be recommended by many (if any other) innkeepers that post here.
.
You are correct. If you don't have the stomach and wherewithall for it, and are not willing to risk everything you own, don't do it. On the other hand, if it is you ONLY option when the government decides to make your choices for you as in my case, then if you are not afraid of uncle sam, and I've learned to not be afraid of them, then you do what you have to do.
Things in life are not all cut and dried, and just because the government say so and so, does not necessarily make it the right choice, and last time I checked they are voted in BY the people FOR the people. So if you want something changed, sometimes you just gotta get into the thick of it.
That said, I'd say you are right. 90% of the people out there would never have done what I did, and never should have. Rule followers and people that cannot think outside the box or think critically should not apply. You CAN LOSE EVERYTHING! And if that stuff is what is closest to your heart and you are really worried about losing it and believe you can't succeed all over again you should probably go buy a b&b turn key.
Besides, I'd imagine anyone on this list that is selling their b&b would be a whole lot smarter buy than doing it my way. Turn key, customers coming in the door the first day you are in business, all the hard learned lessons by prior owners in the past, etc etc etc. If I was looking to run a b&b in another location I'd look for a turn key deal. I only did it that way because I had to. The government forced my hand.
.
Yes there are rules and laws everywhere. Some of course are foolish but they are still laws. I can not believe your local gov. allowed you to continue if they had already told you NO. Sorry but I just do not believe that you tried to go through the correct channels. If you had been told "no" there are many avenues to take even to take them to court.
Opening illegally has nothing to do with thinking out of the box... but you do not have to buy a turn key either. Just make sure the law is on your side before you buy. Make sure the property is zoned for a B&B or that a variance can be issued. Do you homework and be SMART.
Sorry but I have no tolerance for those that think that they are above the law. I worked hard to be in business and each illegal B&B out there puts B&B's in danger of loosing our business or for more laws that make owning a B&B unattractive. .
.
Well, calling me a liar is of course your privilidge.
However, let me give you a little facts. I don't know what state you are in, but I happen to be in one of, if not the most most restrictive state in the union.
Stage 1
I had 40 acres of land (55now) with one building on it. The government said. That's it, thats all you can build. I said baloney. I built what I wanted w/o their permission.
Stage 2
Government says, you can't do that, tear it down is your only option. (I'm talking with people at the bottom of the food chain in the government at this time)
Stage 3
I talk with government at the top of the food chain and they say Oh building those is ok, matter of fact you can go ahead and build as many as youwant.
the business is the problem
Stage 4
I find out that one of the 6 top government officials in our area of several million people has decided he wants our area to go back to wilderness, hence the reason for the restriction of building, business etc.
I go to him, show him I am a real person, that we are not moving or selling our property to the forest service in this lifetime...etc etc, and finally they agree to let me go thru the legal process to be legal, even though they don't like it because it is reasonable.(I've found most people in government to be reasonable if they are toward the top.)
So, you can kick me off the site if you want since you don't like my way of doing things, but I'm just a little different from the rest. sw
.
No one talked about kicking you off this site. All innkeepers I've met have strong opinions, that's one of the reasons we're all in business for ourselves. One thing is certain though, if you shovel it out, you have to be able to take it.
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
Please do noit take this personally - you did what you did and that is YOUR problem.
However, MY personal opinion is that anyone who does not do this LEGALLY is an IDIOT!!! For the health and safety of your guests - ASPIRINGS ARE YOU LISTENING?? - you must have all permits and licenses. It has nothing to do with taking a risk - we all take a risk just by being innkeepers in the first place. Do not for one minute think i am not a risk taker - I did a start-up in a town where people thought I was deranged when I opened a B & B here. And I did it with ALL my own money - no loans.
It has nothing to do with losing everything I have, it is about the proper measures should one of my guests be hurt - what about the bills if they required medical treatment? Not everyone has insurance (I don't myself!) and it is unconscienable to put another person's future in jeopardy because YOU were not legal and therefore have no insurance coverage!
If you think I am ticked, you are correct. There is no excuse possible in my mind to start a business - especially a B & B - that is not legal. It gives B & Bs a bad name for one thing. It is good I will be away for 5 days. I will probably simmer down by the time I get back.
.
Well, it's good to know I'm an idiot and I give good bed and breakfast like yours a bad name. That is certainly why i joined this. To be insulted.
I'm certainly not going to reciprocate.
.
Just for the record, no one is going to kick you off the Forum. You seem to be very proud of yourself because you did as you damn well pleased and screw the world.
There are ways to do things - legally. I discovered that my inn was illegal under the Fire Codes - because no one really knew otherwise. The inns that were getting hassled by the Code were in big cities and we thought it was a city thing until one man stood up and said wait a minute. He asked the state association for help. I happened to know a building inspector who KNEW Codes and asked him about it - THAT was when I discovered almost every B & B in the State was illegal under those Codes. I was the spokesman for the group ub the effort to get the Codes changed - we had to go through the Legislature and I expected to have a Fire Marshal at my door! But we went about it correctly and legally. And we won half of our battle. Now most of the B & Bs in my State are legal - I cannot speak for those not in our association.
The reason everyone came unglued was the attitude that you had your dream so the law did not matter. Well my daughter deals every night with people who think what they want is the only thing that matters and they continue to think that even after she has cuffed them and taken them to the station house. If everyone did as they damn well pleased, this would be a place of chaos. We all have dealt with petty bureaucrats and we make it our responsibility to discover what the laws and rules REALLY are and we deal with things LEGALLY. We are constantly fighting the battle for the good name and reputation of B & Bs and every time there is one that operates outside the law, follows their own rules/dreams they hurt the rest of the industry.
Understand this - each innkeeper on this Forum operates legally and we try to be mentors to those who also have a dream, a dream of being innkeepers and everything we tell them is legal, how to check the legals in their State/County, City. If I have offended you I am very sorry, BUT I will offend every time rather than mislead one person. I am proud of my profession and proud of the respect that has been shown me because I have a reputation of being honest and trustworthy and I do believe I would rather die than lose that because if I ever do lose that, I may as well be dead.
Feel free to express opinions - but never, ever insinuate that being anything other than totally legal is acceptable.
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
This forum has many aspiring innkeepers coming here for good sound advise. One of the main reasons for my post is to let those out there know the RISK is HIGH if they follow your lead and do this without licensing. This risk you took should not be recommended to anyone, and I do not think that it would be recommended by many (if any other) innkeepers that post here.
.
You are correct. If you don't have the stomach and wherewithall for it, and are not willing to risk everything you own, don't do it. On the other hand, if it is you ONLY option when the government decides to make your choices for you as in my case, then if you are not afraid of uncle sam, and I've learned to not be afraid of them, then you do what you have to do.
Things in life are not all cut and dried, and just because the government say so and so, does not necessarily make it the right choice, and last time I checked they are voted in BY the people FOR the people. So if you want something changed, sometimes you just gotta get into the thick of it.
That said, I'd say you are right. 90% of the people out there would never have done what I did, and never should have. Rule followers and people that cannot think outside the box or think critically should not apply. You CAN LOSE EVERYTHING! And if that stuff is what is closest to your heart and you are really worried about losing it and believe you can't succeed all over again you should probably go buy a b&b turn key.
Besides, I'd imagine anyone on this list that is selling their b&b would be a whole lot smarter buy than doing it my way. Turn key, customers coming in the door the first day you are in business, all the hard learned lessons by prior owners in the past, etc etc etc. If I was looking to run a b&b in another location I'd look for a turn key deal. I only did it that way because I had to. The government forced my hand.
.
Yes there are rules and laws everywhere. Some of course are foolish but they are still laws. I can not believe your local gov. allowed you to continue if they had already told you NO. Sorry but I just do not believe that you tried to go through the correct channels. If you had been told "no" there are many avenues to take even to take them to court.
Opening illegally has nothing to do with thinking out of the box... but you do not have to buy a turn key either. Just make sure the law is on your side before you buy. Make sure the property is zoned for a B&B or that a variance can be issued. Do you homework and be SMART.
Sorry but I have no tolerance for those that think that they are above the law. I worked hard to be in business and each illegal B&B out there puts B&B's in danger of loosing our business or for more laws that make owning a B&B unattractive. .
.
Well, calling me a liar is of course your privilidge.
However, let me give you a little facts. I don't know what state you are in, but I happen to be in one of, if not the most most restrictive state in the union.
Stage 1
I had 40 acres of land (55now) with one building on it. The government said. That's it, thats all you can build. I said baloney. I built what I wanted w/o their permission.
Stage 2
Government says, you can't do that, tear it down is your only option. (I'm talking with people at the bottom of the food chain in the government at this time)
Stage 3
I talk with government at the top of the food chain and they say Oh building those is ok, matter of fact you can go ahead and build as many as youwant.
the business is the problem
Stage 4
I find out that one of the 6 top government officials in our area of several million people has decided he wants our area to go back to wilderness, hence the reason for the restriction of building, business etc.
I go to him, show him I am a real person, that we are not moving or selling our property to the forest service in this lifetime...etc etc, and finally they agree to let me go thru the legal process to be legal, even though they don't like it because it is reasonable.(I've found most people in government to be reasonable if they are toward the top.)
So, you can kick me off the site if you want since you don't like my way of doing things, but I'm just a little different from the rest. sw
.
duplicate post
 
"You can't always start legal" is how swilson changed the dialogue a bit. This may be true in some cases, whether knowingly or unknowingly breaking the law. With 16,000+ B&Bs around the US today, and thousands more that closed their doors over the past 20 years, every one of has been and is subject to all kinds of local ordinances, inspections, permitting, zoning, etc. You can be sure many innkeepers might have started accepting guests without all their ducks in a row. But history shows that over the time this industry grew, many communities didn't have laws that governed B&Bs specifically, so both the industry and book of laws and policies grew together over time. We now have a pretty solid profession and trade, with thousands of laws and policies that exist around the nation to govern our industry as local communities see fit, based on the kind of communities each one of them wants to be.
It sounds like swilson has an interesting story, and could probably write a book about the experience, and it would probably be an interesting read. He is personally fortunate that he was able to keep the business and building. He ignored the law at the time and has no qualms about that. Certainly a sense of pride is showing with having fought a "10 year battle," that was won.
If a city puts a building moratorium on B&Bs or restricts the city limits to having a certain number (and that number has been met), it might not seem morally, ethically or legally right to an aspiring innkeeper...or any tax payer for that matter. But, we live in a society of laws crafted and supported by communiites, and if you believe your personal desire to own and operate a B&B is more important than the community-based wishes, and you decide to somehow circumvent the law, you should expect no sympathy, support or congratulations from other innkeepers.
Many people in many businesses "take a little competition" away from competitors by breaking the rules...some ethical rules (planting false positive or fraudulent negative reviews on sites like TripAdvisor) and some legal. But no one should be so casual about that, because you never know what hardships went into establishing and operating those other businesses, especially if all possible "rules" were followed.
Aspiring innkeepers (and existing innkeepers) may find themselves in positions to decide to follow or ignore existing laws. swilson's example of circumventing the law in his particular case, or any other similar stories from innkeepers, should NOT be reason to do the same in your situation.
 
"You can't always start legal" is how swilson changed the dialogue a bit. This may be true in some cases, whether knowingly or unknowingly breaking the law. With 16,000+ B&Bs around the US today, and thousands more that closed their doors over the past 20 years, every one of has been and is subject to all kinds of local ordinances, inspections, permitting, zoning, etc. You can be sure many innkeepers might have started accepting guests without all their ducks in a row. But history shows that over the time this industry grew, many communities didn't have laws that governed B&Bs specifically, so both the industry and book of laws and policies grew together over time. We now have a pretty solid profession and trade, with thousands of laws and policies that exist around the nation to govern our industry as local communities see fit, based on the kind of communities each one of them wants to be.
It sounds like swilson has an interesting story, and could probably write a book about the experience, and it would probably be an interesting read. He is personally fortunate that he was able to keep the business and building. He ignored the law at the time and has no qualms about that. Certainly a sense of pride is showing with having fought a "10 year battle," that was won.
If a city puts a building moratorium on B&Bs or restricts the city limits to having a certain number (and that number has been met), it might not seem morally, ethically or legally right to an aspiring innkeeper...or any tax payer for that matter. But, we live in a society of laws crafted and supported by communiites, and if you believe your personal desire to own and operate a B&B is more important than the community-based wishes, and you decide to somehow circumvent the law, you should expect no sympathy, support or congratulations from other innkeepers.
Many people in many businesses "take a little competition" away from competitors by breaking the rules...some ethical rules (planting false positive or fraudulent negative reviews on sites like TripAdvisor) and some legal. But no one should be so casual about that, because you never know what hardships went into establishing and operating those other businesses, especially if all possible "rules" were followed.
Aspiring innkeepers (and existing innkeepers) may find themselves in positions to decide to follow or ignore existing laws. swilson's example of circumventing the law in his particular case, or any other similar stories from innkeepers, should NOT be reason to do the same in your situation..
Thanks for a thoughtful response and good advice, Jay.
 
"You can't always start legal" is how swilson changed the dialogue a bit. This may be true in some cases, whether knowingly or unknowingly breaking the law. With 16,000+ B&Bs around the US today, and thousands more that closed their doors over the past 20 years, every one of has been and is subject to all kinds of local ordinances, inspections, permitting, zoning, etc. You can be sure many innkeepers might have started accepting guests without all their ducks in a row. But history shows that over the time this industry grew, many communities didn't have laws that governed B&Bs specifically, so both the industry and book of laws and policies grew together over time. We now have a pretty solid profession and trade, with thousands of laws and policies that exist around the nation to govern our industry as local communities see fit, based on the kind of communities each one of them wants to be.
It sounds like swilson has an interesting story, and could probably write a book about the experience, and it would probably be an interesting read. He is personally fortunate that he was able to keep the business and building. He ignored the law at the time and has no qualms about that. Certainly a sense of pride is showing with having fought a "10 year battle," that was won.
If a city puts a building moratorium on B&Bs or restricts the city limits to having a certain number (and that number has been met), it might not seem morally, ethically or legally right to an aspiring innkeeper...or any tax payer for that matter. But, we live in a society of laws crafted and supported by communiites, and if you believe your personal desire to own and operate a B&B is more important than the community-based wishes, and you decide to somehow circumvent the law, you should expect no sympathy, support or congratulations from other innkeepers.
Many people in many businesses "take a little competition" away from competitors by breaking the rules...some ethical rules (planting false positive or fraudulent negative reviews on sites like TripAdvisor) and some legal. But no one should be so casual about that, because you never know what hardships went into establishing and operating those other businesses, especially if all possible "rules" were followed.
Aspiring innkeepers (and existing innkeepers) may find themselves in positions to decide to follow or ignore existing laws. swilson's example of circumventing the law in his particular case, or any other similar stories from innkeepers, should NOT be reason to do the same in your situation..
Thanks for your always insightful and "right on" responses!
 
I will go a step further and add into this "healthy" discussion that just as there are locatlities that are very stringent with their many seemingly irrational laws, there are also those so lenient that I believe some of the Inns should not be allowed to operate! Places where there is no regular health dept inspection. "Well I never made anyone sick!" How do you know? 99% of people with food borne-illness never report it to anyone.
This gives the rest of us B&B's a bad name when a guest stays at a place like mentioned above. Are they out there? Youbetchya! Guests tell me of them quite often!
I worked for a health dept - in Environmental Health and just an fyi plenty of LICENSED and APPROVED places were under the microscope so to speak when they did not operate safely.
This innkeeper sWilson skirted the laws which law abiding citizens find appalling, but he did not necessarily not meet CODE. When we lived in WA State we were required to have a backsplash in our kitchen or WE COULD NOT MOVE INTO our brand new home. Licensed everything - sorry we will be back in 3 weeks to make sure you have a backsplash behind your microwave (the one short wall we did not put it on).
After dealing with extreme local gvmt it is easy to get an attitude, even become postal.
Noone is saying that innkeeper is teaching aspirings. He is an innkeeper or cabin keeper and is sharing his experience.
 
Thank you Jay for saying what needed to be said in a professional (and unemotional) way.
 
Well, I'm still allowed to be on the site. The maverick has been branded. And you are right. If you can't take it (I restarted this post) don't dish it out. So I won't whine. sw
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
This forum has many aspiring innkeepers coming here for good sound advise. One of the main reasons for my post is to let those out there know the RISK is HIGH if they follow your lead and do this without licensing. This risk you took should not be recommended to anyone, and I do not think that it would be recommended by many (if any other) innkeepers that post here.
.
You are correct. If you don't have the stomach and wherewithall for it, and are not willing to risk everything you own, don't do it. On the other hand, if it is you ONLY option when the government decides to make your choices for you as in my case, then if you are not afraid of uncle sam, and I've learned to not be afraid of them, then you do what you have to do.
Things in life are not all cut and dried, and just because the government say so and so, does not necessarily make it the right choice, and last time I checked they are voted in BY the people FOR the people. So if you want something changed, sometimes you just gotta get into the thick of it.
That said, I'd say you are right. 90% of the people out there would never have done what I did, and never should have. Rule followers and people that cannot think outside the box or think critically should not apply. You CAN LOSE EVERYTHING! And if that stuff is what is closest to your heart and you are really worried about losing it and believe you can't succeed all over again you should probably go buy a b&b turn key.
Besides, I'd imagine anyone on this list that is selling their b&b would be a whole lot smarter buy than doing it my way. Turn key, customers coming in the door the first day you are in business, all the hard learned lessons by prior owners in the past, etc etc etc. If I was looking to run a b&b in another location I'd look for a turn key deal. I only did it that way because I had to. The government forced my hand.
.
Yes there are rules and laws everywhere. Some of course are foolish but they are still laws. I can not believe your local gov. allowed you to continue if they had already told you NO. Sorry but I just do not believe that you tried to go through the correct channels. If you had been told "no" there are many avenues to take even to take them to court.
Opening illegally has nothing to do with thinking out of the box... but you do not have to buy a turn key either. Just make sure the law is on your side before you buy. Make sure the property is zoned for a B&B or that a variance can be issued. Do you homework and be SMART.
Sorry but I have no tolerance for those that think that they are above the law. I worked hard to be in business and each illegal B&B out there puts B&B's in danger of loosing our business or for more laws that make owning a B&B unattractive. .
.
Well, calling me a liar is of course your privilidge.
However, let me give you a little facts. I don't know what state you are in, but I happen to be in one of, if not the most most restrictive state in the union.
Stage 1
I had 40 acres of land (55now) with one building on it. The government said. That's it, thats all you can build. I said baloney. I built what I wanted w/o their permission.
Stage 2
Government says, you can't do that, tear it down is your only option. (I'm talking with people at the bottom of the food chain in the government at this time)
Stage 3
I talk with government at the top of the food chain and they say Oh building those is ok, matter of fact you can go ahead and build as many as youwant.
the business is the problem
Stage 4
I find out that one of the 6 top government officials in our area of several million people has decided he wants our area to go back to wilderness, hence the reason for the restriction of building, business etc.
I go to him, show him I am a real person, that we are not moving or selling our property to the forest service in this lifetime...etc etc, and finally they agree to let me go thru the legal process to be legal, even though they don't like it because it is reasonable.(I've found most people in government to be reasonable if they are toward the top.)
So, you can kick me off the site if you want since you don't like my way of doing things, but I'm just a little different from the rest. sw
.
For heaven's sake, what makes you think you're different from everyone else who had to fight to get what they want when their town/city/county/state gov't said no?
Just because some people on here bought places that were turn key, doesn't even mean THOSE places were legal. We have all had to fight 'city hall' in one way or another to get what we want out of our businesses. (tiny example...we had to argue to put up a satellite dish, the small one, not the huge ones of yore. We won. But we fought is the point. Yes, it seems small, but it's saving us thousands/year in TV fees.)
We are fighting right now for the ability to serve cookies for Pete's sake. But you know where that's leading right? You betcha, we want to serve lunch and dinner, too.
So, we plod along doing what's necessary to get the job done and constantly getting our point across to the gov't.
Your original 'guns ablazing' fight with the gov't was well explained with your post on what went wrong. Sometimes it's easier to start there, with the explanation, than with the 'rules don't apply to me' type of post.
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
Please do noit take this personally - you did what you did and that is YOUR problem.
However, MY personal opinion is that anyone who does not do this LEGALLY is an IDIOT!!! For the health and safety of your guests - ASPIRINGS ARE YOU LISTENING?? - you must have all permits and licenses. It has nothing to do with taking a risk - we all take a risk just by being innkeepers in the first place. Do not for one minute think i am not a risk taker - I did a start-up in a town where people thought I was deranged when I opened a B & B here. And I did it with ALL my own money - no loans.
It has nothing to do with losing everything I have, it is about the proper measures should one of my guests be hurt - what about the bills if they required medical treatment? Not everyone has insurance (I don't myself!) and it is unconscienable to put another person's future in jeopardy because YOU were not legal and therefore have no insurance coverage!
If you think I am ticked, you are correct. There is no excuse possible in my mind to start a business - especially a B & B - that is not legal. It gives B & Bs a bad name for one thing. It is good I will be away for 5 days. I will probably simmer down by the time I get back.
.
Well, it's good to know I'm an idiot and I give good bed and breakfast like yours a bad name. That is certainly why i joined this. To be insulted.
I'm certainly not going to reciprocate.
.
Just for the record, no one is going to kick you off the Forum. You seem to be very proud of yourself because you did as you damn well pleased and screw the world.
There are ways to do things - legally. I discovered that my inn was illegal under the Fire Codes - because no one really knew otherwise. The inns that were getting hassled by the Code were in big cities and we thought it was a city thing until one man stood up and said wait a minute. He asked the state association for help. I happened to know a building inspector who KNEW Codes and asked him about it - THAT was when I discovered almost every B & B in the State was illegal under those Codes. I was the spokesman for the group ub the effort to get the Codes changed - we had to go through the Legislature and I expected to have a Fire Marshal at my door! But we went about it correctly and legally. And we won half of our battle. Now most of the B & Bs in my State are legal - I cannot speak for those not in our association.
The reason everyone came unglued was the attitude that you had your dream so the law did not matter. Well my daughter deals every night with people who think what they want is the only thing that matters and they continue to think that even after she has cuffed them and taken them to the station house. If everyone did as they damn well pleased, this would be a place of chaos. We all have dealt with petty bureaucrats and we make it our responsibility to discover what the laws and rules REALLY are and we deal with things LEGALLY. We are constantly fighting the battle for the good name and reputation of B & Bs and every time there is one that operates outside the law, follows their own rules/dreams they hurt the rest of the industry.
Understand this - each innkeeper on this Forum operates legally and we try to be mentors to those who also have a dream, a dream of being innkeepers and everything we tell them is legal, how to check the legals in their State/County, City. If I have offended you I am very sorry, BUT I will offend every time rather than mislead one person. I am proud of my profession and proud of the respect that has been shown me because I have a reputation of being honest and trustworthy and I do believe I would rather die than lose that because if I ever do lose that, I may as well be dead.
Feel free to express opinions - but never, ever insinuate that being anything other than totally legal is acceptable.
.
Hats off to your daughter. Did that for 17 years until I just could'nt go to bad news every day anymore. Rough job for a guy. Even rougher for a woman with all they have to put up with. It's a blessing when you raise your kids right and then they choose to do good things you can be proud of.
It was such a shock when I started innkeeping and people were glad to see me and full of joy!
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
swilson said:
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
I'm coming into this discussion late...
I take exception to this comment as unnecessarily provoking and insulting. Every one of us innkeepers is a risk taker. Every single innkeeper on this forum has made a huge decision to either buy or create a business and run it themselves. Whether we're a little B&B where we do everything ourselves, or a huge inn with all kinds of staff and paid assistance, we innkeepers are the one who have taken the responsibility on ourselves. We're the ones who wonder in the slow season if the mortgage will get paid. We're the ones whose heart stops when a guest misses the bottom step and sprains their ankle. We're the ones who decide whether to spend the money here or there.
I got an interesting comment from an acquaintance after I joined FB... she was so impressed that we had the guts to start our own business. I thought it was ironic, since she herself had been a major force in starting an enterprise... but that enterprise doesn't pay her mortgage, and she didn't do it alone.
All of that to say: if you're an innkeeper, you're a risk taker and good for you!!!!
As far as starting legally, and operating legally, I absolutely feel it's the only way to go. That doesn't make me a non-risk taker. It doesn't even make me normal. When I first started I went to Building and Zoning to get a "Home Occupation Permit." They had to dig around to find the forms as no one ever uses them. Does that mean there are no other businesses operating out of homes in my town? Of course not! There's plenty of them, but no one's filling out the form and paying their $25.
But I did.
I did, because I knew I was going to be going back later and asking to put a big sign out front. I was going to be standing in front of the Zoning Board and I wanted to be able to do it with a clear conscience and my ducks in a row. It worked... got my sign and permission to expand, with very little hassle.
Yes, our government is made up of people, and yes, we can and should be working with them to make changes to stupid rules. There's a law here in Ohio that I'm working on getting changed (which reminds me, I need to call Columbus again...). We risk taking business owners are the ones who have the most responsibility to do so, I think.
And I certainly can see how some innkeepers in some situations would make choices that are, um, delicate. Whether such choices are morally righteous is a separate discussion, perhaps. Whether they are wise... well, experience has shown that sometimes acting first and asking forgiveness later works, and sometimes it has disastrous results.
I may be a risk taker, but I try to avoid being stupid. If the risk was some government guy telling me to paint a different color, that's not much risk. Or if the government was going to tell me cease and desist something that was only garnering me a few bucks, then so what?. But if I were to sink my entire life savings and retirement into an enterprise, as well as mortgage myself up to my eyeballs, I'd better have a pretty good sense that what I was attempting was actually going to fly.
I first started participating online while I was still an aspiring, and know that our opening was smooth because of all the great advice I received. Now that I'm open I am happy to be able to contribute and pay it forward to other aspirings as well. I echo what the others have said.... Aspirings! Be legal! It's a risky enough business as it is without unduly burdening yourself with a nightmare waiting to happen.
=)
Kk.
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
Please do noit take this personally - you did what you did and that is YOUR problem.
However, MY personal opinion is that anyone who does not do this LEGALLY is an IDIOT!!! For the health and safety of your guests - ASPIRINGS ARE YOU LISTENING?? - you must have all permits and licenses. It has nothing to do with taking a risk - we all take a risk just by being innkeepers in the first place. Do not for one minute think i am not a risk taker - I did a start-up in a town where people thought I was deranged when I opened a B & B here. And I did it with ALL my own money - no loans.
It has nothing to do with losing everything I have, it is about the proper measures should one of my guests be hurt - what about the bills if they required medical treatment? Not everyone has insurance (I don't myself!) and it is unconscienable to put another person's future in jeopardy because YOU were not legal and therefore have no insurance coverage!
If you think I am ticked, you are correct. There is no excuse possible in my mind to start a business - especially a B & B - that is not legal. It gives B & Bs a bad name for one thing. It is good I will be away for 5 days. I will probably simmer down by the time I get back.
.
Well, it's good to know I'm an idiot and I give good bed and breakfast like yours a bad name. That is certainly why i joined this. To be insulted.
I'm certainly not going to reciprocate.
.
Just for the record, no one is going to kick you off the Forum. You seem to be very proud of yourself because you did as you damn well pleased and screw the world.
There are ways to do things - legally. I discovered that my inn was illegal under the Fire Codes - because no one really knew otherwise. The inns that were getting hassled by the Code were in big cities and we thought it was a city thing until one man stood up and said wait a minute. He asked the state association for help. I happened to know a building inspector who KNEW Codes and asked him about it - THAT was when I discovered almost every B & B in the State was illegal under those Codes. I was the spokesman for the group ub the effort to get the Codes changed - we had to go through the Legislature and I expected to have a Fire Marshal at my door! But we went about it correctly and legally. And we won half of our battle. Now most of the B & Bs in my State are legal - I cannot speak for those not in our association.
The reason everyone came unglued was the attitude that you had your dream so the law did not matter. Well my daughter deals every night with people who think what they want is the only thing that matters and they continue to think that even after she has cuffed them and taken them to the station house. If everyone did as they damn well pleased, this would be a place of chaos. We all have dealt with petty bureaucrats and we make it our responsibility to discover what the laws and rules REALLY are and we deal with things LEGALLY. We are constantly fighting the battle for the good name and reputation of B & Bs and every time there is one that operates outside the law, follows their own rules/dreams they hurt the rest of the industry.
Understand this - each innkeeper on this Forum operates legally and we try to be mentors to those who also have a dream, a dream of being innkeepers and everything we tell them is legal, how to check the legals in their State/County, City. If I have offended you I am very sorry, BUT I will offend every time rather than mislead one person. I am proud of my profession and proud of the respect that has been shown me because I have a reputation of being honest and trustworthy and I do believe I would rather die than lose that because if I ever do lose that, I may as well be dead.
Feel free to express opinions - but never, ever insinuate that being anything other than totally legal is acceptable.
.
Hats off to your daughter. Did that for 17 years until I just could'nt go to bad news every day anymore. Rough job for a guy. Even rougher for a woman with all they have to put up with. It's a blessing when you raise your kids right and then they choose to do good things you can be proud of.
It was such a shock when I started innkeeping and people were glad to see me and full of joy!
.
She does it in the largest and worst district in Chicago - graveyard shift because that is when the action happens. My 5'2", 120 lb daughter can hold her own against the worst scum mainly because she can talk them into the squad car a lot of times. She has the respect of the other cops at the station house - because she earned it - trickle down from the respect her partner is held in because he chose her as his partner.
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
Please do noit take this personally - you did what you did and that is YOUR problem.
However, MY personal opinion is that anyone who does not do this LEGALLY is an IDIOT!!! For the health and safety of your guests - ASPIRINGS ARE YOU LISTENING?? - you must have all permits and licenses. It has nothing to do with taking a risk - we all take a risk just by being innkeepers in the first place. Do not for one minute think i am not a risk taker - I did a start-up in a town where people thought I was deranged when I opened a B & B here. And I did it with ALL my own money - no loans.
It has nothing to do with losing everything I have, it is about the proper measures should one of my guests be hurt - what about the bills if they required medical treatment? Not everyone has insurance (I don't myself!) and it is unconscienable to put another person's future in jeopardy because YOU were not legal and therefore have no insurance coverage!
If you think I am ticked, you are correct. There is no excuse possible in my mind to start a business - especially a B & B - that is not legal. It gives B & Bs a bad name for one thing. It is good I will be away for 5 days. I will probably simmer down by the time I get back.
.
Well, it's good to know I'm an idiot and I give good bed and breakfast like yours a bad name. That is certainly why i joined this. To be insulted.
I'm certainly not going to reciprocate.
.
Just for the record, no one is going to kick you off the Forum. You seem to be very proud of yourself because you did as you damn well pleased and screw the world.
There are ways to do things - legally. I discovered that my inn was illegal under the Fire Codes - because no one really knew otherwise. The inns that were getting hassled by the Code were in big cities and we thought it was a city thing until one man stood up and said wait a minute. He asked the state association for help. I happened to know a building inspector who KNEW Codes and asked him about it - THAT was when I discovered almost every B & B in the State was illegal under those Codes. I was the spokesman for the group ub the effort to get the Codes changed - we had to go through the Legislature and I expected to have a Fire Marshal at my door! But we went about it correctly and legally. And we won half of our battle. Now most of the B & Bs in my State are legal - I cannot speak for those not in our association.
The reason everyone came unglued was the attitude that you had your dream so the law did not matter. Well my daughter deals every night with people who think what they want is the only thing that matters and they continue to think that even after she has cuffed them and taken them to the station house. If everyone did as they damn well pleased, this would be a place of chaos. We all have dealt with petty bureaucrats and we make it our responsibility to discover what the laws and rules REALLY are and we deal with things LEGALLY. We are constantly fighting the battle for the good name and reputation of B & Bs and every time there is one that operates outside the law, follows their own rules/dreams they hurt the rest of the industry.
Understand this - each innkeeper on this Forum operates legally and we try to be mentors to those who also have a dream, a dream of being innkeepers and everything we tell them is legal, how to check the legals in their State/County, City. If I have offended you I am very sorry, BUT I will offend every time rather than mislead one person. I am proud of my profession and proud of the respect that has been shown me because I have a reputation of being honest and trustworthy and I do believe I would rather die than lose that because if I ever do lose that, I may as well be dead.
Feel free to express opinions - but never, ever insinuate that being anything other than totally legal is acceptable.
.
Hats off to your daughter. Did that for 17 years until I just could'nt go to bad news every day anymore. Rough job for a guy. Even rougher for a woman with all they have to put up with. It's a blessing when you raise your kids right and then they choose to do good things you can be proud of.
It was such a shock when I started innkeeping and people were glad to see me and full of joy!
.
She does it in the largest and worst district in Chicago - graveyard shift because that is when the action happens. My 5'2", 120 lb daughter can hold her own against the worst scum mainly because she can talk them into the squad car a lot of times. She has the respect of the other cops at the station house - because she earned it - trickle down from the respect her partner is held in because he chose her as his partner.
.
Yea, that's one of the reasons I left...moved out of the city working swing shift almost my whole carrer, then stuck working the tiny political town I now live in. Had to move back to the city or move on. Movrd on to innkeeping.
Women like her working the street at night are rare. Most want days or a desk job...but then most seem to be single moms or married to cops who have kids to take care of. Like I said It's a hard enough job for a guy.
Hope she wears a vest. Had a few friends shot, and some refused to wear them. sw
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
.
swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
.
If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
.
Please do noit take this personally - you did what you did and that is YOUR problem.
However, MY personal opinion is that anyone who does not do this LEGALLY is an IDIOT!!! For the health and safety of your guests - ASPIRINGS ARE YOU LISTENING?? - you must have all permits and licenses. It has nothing to do with taking a risk - we all take a risk just by being innkeepers in the first place. Do not for one minute think i am not a risk taker - I did a start-up in a town where people thought I was deranged when I opened a B & B here. And I did it with ALL my own money - no loans.
It has nothing to do with losing everything I have, it is about the proper measures should one of my guests be hurt - what about the bills if they required medical treatment? Not everyone has insurance (I don't myself!) and it is unconscienable to put another person's future in jeopardy because YOU were not legal and therefore have no insurance coverage!
If you think I am ticked, you are correct. There is no excuse possible in my mind to start a business - especially a B & B - that is not legal. It gives B & Bs a bad name for one thing. It is good I will be away for 5 days. I will probably simmer down by the time I get back.
.
Well, it's good to know I'm an idiot and I give good bed and breakfast like yours a bad name. That is certainly why i joined this. To be insulted.
I'm certainly not going to reciprocate.
.
Just for the record, no one is going to kick you off the Forum. You seem to be very proud of yourself because you did as you damn well pleased and screw the world.
There are ways to do things - legally. I discovered that my inn was illegal under the Fire Codes - because no one really knew otherwise. The inns that were getting hassled by the Code were in big cities and we thought it was a city thing until one man stood up and said wait a minute. He asked the state association for help. I happened to know a building inspector who KNEW Codes and asked him about it - THAT was when I discovered almost every B & B in the State was illegal under those Codes. I was the spokesman for the group ub the effort to get the Codes changed - we had to go through the Legislature and I expected to have a Fire Marshal at my door! But we went about it correctly and legally. And we won half of our battle. Now most of the B & Bs in my State are legal - I cannot speak for those not in our association.
The reason everyone came unglued was the attitude that you had your dream so the law did not matter. Well my daughter deals every night with people who think what they want is the only thing that matters and they continue to think that even after she has cuffed them and taken them to the station house. If everyone did as they damn well pleased, this would be a place of chaos. We all have dealt with petty bureaucrats and we make it our responsibility to discover what the laws and rules REALLY are and we deal with things LEGALLY. We are constantly fighting the battle for the good name and reputation of B & Bs and every time there is one that operates outside the law, follows their own rules/dreams they hurt the rest of the industry.
Understand this - each innkeeper on this Forum operates legally and we try to be mentors to those who also have a dream, a dream of being innkeepers and everything we tell them is legal, how to check the legals in their State/County, City. If I have offended you I am very sorry, BUT I will offend every time rather than mislead one person. I am proud of my profession and proud of the respect that has been shown me because I have a reputation of being honest and trustworthy and I do believe I would rather die than lose that because if I ever do lose that, I may as well be dead.
Feel free to express opinions - but never, ever insinuate that being anything other than totally legal is acceptable.
.
Hats off to your daughter. Did that for 17 years until I just could'nt go to bad news every day anymore. Rough job for a guy. Even rougher for a woman with all they have to put up with. It's a blessing when you raise your kids right and then they choose to do good things you can be proud of.
It was such a shock when I started innkeeping and people were glad to see me and full of joy!
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She does it in the largest and worst district in Chicago - graveyard shift because that is when the action happens. My 5'2", 120 lb daughter can hold her own against the worst scum mainly because she can talk them into the squad car a lot of times. She has the respect of the other cops at the station house - because she earned it - trickle down from the respect her partner is held in because he chose her as his partner.
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Yea, that's one of the reasons I left...moved out of the city working swing shift almost my whole carrer, then stuck working the tiny political town I now live in. Had to move back to the city or move on. Movrd on to innkeeping.
Women like her working the street at night are rare. Most want days or a desk job...but then most seem to be single moms or married to cops who have kids to take care of. Like I said It's a hard enough job for a guy.
Hope she wears a vest. Had a few friends shot, and some refused to wear them. sw
.
She was raised by me - she is definitely not stupid - she got the best vest she could buy. AND she wears it! She is so small she has to have her uniforms tailor made. Her size is actually an asset because she lulls jerks into thinking she is not dangerous and then they find out the truth!
 
Pretty strict!!! And the other B & B owners wouldn't let them get away with it!!! We are small enough that we know everyone and everyone else:) Someone would turn them in..for sure!!!.
You can't always start legal
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swilson said:
You can't always start legal
You can't afford not to in my opinion.
Not only are there legal ramifications in some regions, but IF you are doing so without obtaining the right type of Insurance, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Most 'homeowner' insurance would be VOID if a paying overnight guest files an injury claim, thus leaving the homeowner at risk of loosing everything. Also FYI, an insurance company will void any claim if they find out someone is operating a business in their home which clients come and go. Operating this type of business illegally places everything you have worked for at risk...
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If you are not a risk taker you need to do it by the book.
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Please do noit take this personally - you did what you did and that is YOUR problem.
However, MY personal opinion is that anyone who does not do this LEGALLY is an IDIOT!!! For the health and safety of your guests - ASPIRINGS ARE YOU LISTENING?? - you must have all permits and licenses. It has nothing to do with taking a risk - we all take a risk just by being innkeepers in the first place. Do not for one minute think i am not a risk taker - I did a start-up in a town where people thought I was deranged when I opened a B & B here. And I did it with ALL my own money - no loans.
It has nothing to do with losing everything I have, it is about the proper measures should one of my guests be hurt - what about the bills if they required medical treatment? Not everyone has insurance (I don't myself!) and it is unconscienable to put another person's future in jeopardy because YOU were not legal and therefore have no insurance coverage!
If you think I am ticked, you are correct. There is no excuse possible in my mind to start a business - especially a B & B - that is not legal. It gives B & Bs a bad name for one thing. It is good I will be away for 5 days. I will probably simmer down by the time I get back.
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Well, it's good to know I'm an idiot and I give good bed and breakfast like yours a bad name. That is certainly why i joined this. To be insulted.
I'm certainly not going to reciprocate.
.
Just for the record, no one is going to kick you off the Forum. You seem to be very proud of yourself because you did as you damn well pleased and screw the world.
There are ways to do things - legally. I discovered that my inn was illegal under the Fire Codes - because no one really knew otherwise. The inns that were getting hassled by the Code were in big cities and we thought it was a city thing until one man stood up and said wait a minute. He asked the state association for help. I happened to know a building inspector who KNEW Codes and asked him about it - THAT was when I discovered almost every B & B in the State was illegal under those Codes. I was the spokesman for the group ub the effort to get the Codes changed - we had to go through the Legislature and I expected to have a Fire Marshal at my door! But we went about it correctly and legally. And we won half of our battle. Now most of the B & Bs in my State are legal - I cannot speak for those not in our association.
The reason everyone came unglued was the attitude that you had your dream so the law did not matter. Well my daughter deals every night with people who think what they want is the only thing that matters and they continue to think that even after she has cuffed them and taken them to the station house. If everyone did as they damn well pleased, this would be a place of chaos. We all have dealt with petty bureaucrats and we make it our responsibility to discover what the laws and rules REALLY are and we deal with things LEGALLY. We are constantly fighting the battle for the good name and reputation of B & Bs and every time there is one that operates outside the law, follows their own rules/dreams they hurt the rest of the industry.
Understand this - each innkeeper on this Forum operates legally and we try to be mentors to those who also have a dream, a dream of being innkeepers and everything we tell them is legal, how to check the legals in their State/County, City. If I have offended you I am very sorry, BUT I will offend every time rather than mislead one person. I am proud of my profession and proud of the respect that has been shown me because I have a reputation of being honest and trustworthy and I do believe I would rather die than lose that because if I ever do lose that, I may as well be dead.
Feel free to express opinions - but never, ever insinuate that being anything other than totally legal is acceptable.
.
Hats off to your daughter. Did that for 17 years until I just could'nt go to bad news every day anymore. Rough job for a guy. Even rougher for a woman with all they have to put up with. It's a blessing when you raise your kids right and then they choose to do good things you can be proud of.
It was such a shock when I started innkeeping and people were glad to see me and full of joy!
.
She does it in the largest and worst district in Chicago - graveyard shift because that is when the action happens. My 5'2", 120 lb daughter can hold her own against the worst scum mainly because she can talk them into the squad car a lot of times. She has the respect of the other cops at the station house - because she earned it - trickle down from the respect her partner is held in because he chose her as his partner.
.
Yea, that's one of the reasons I left...moved out of the city working swing shift almost my whole carrer, then stuck working the tiny political town I now live in. Had to move back to the city or move on. Movrd on to innkeeping.
Women like her working the street at night are rare. Most want days or a desk job...but then most seem to be single moms or married to cops who have kids to take care of. Like I said It's a hard enough job for a guy.
Hope she wears a vest. Had a few friends shot, and some refused to wear them. sw
.
She was raised by me - she is definitely not stupid - she got the best vest she could buy. AND she wears it! She is so small she has to have her uniforms tailor made. Her size is actually an asset because she lulls jerks into thinking she is not dangerous and then they find out the truth!
.
gillumhouse said:
She was raised by me - she is definitely not stupid - she got the best vest she could buy. AND she wears it! She is so small she has to have her uniforms tailor made. Her size is actually an asset because she lulls jerks into thinking she is not dangerous and then they find out the truth!
DH's sister is a copper.
 
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