Are we too tough on new people?

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toddburme

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I think the rose colored glasses are not the worst thing when it comes to a new venture. If you didn't have hope and enthusiasm, you would never get off the couch to get it going. Ideally we all want new people to enter the business as a rising tide lifts all boats. So maybe we should temper our advice with a bit of ... Any ideas?
I know of several people on the board got a bit out of shape when joining, myself included. And most of us just went a head with it anyways but what about the lurkers who we have convinced this is not a good way to go?
Just a thought.
 
You're right. We should back off. There is no sense in alienating the folks who might be buying our businesses in a few years.
I, for one, will stop offering unsolicited advice to newbies.
However, I will still use this board as a place to GET info I need in order to run my business. And if that includes lifting the curtain to show how bad things can get, so be it. It has been my observation over the years that I get the tough customers that very few other innkeepers get. So, everyone should take my situations as the outliers.
 
Madeleine said:
You're right. We should back off. There is no sense in alienating the folks who might be buying our businesses in a few years.
I, for one, will stop offering unsolicited advice to newbies.
However, I will still use this board as a place to GET info I need in order to run my business. And if that includes lifting the curtain to show how bad things can get, so be it. It has been my observation over the years that I get the tough customers that very few other innkeepers get. So, everyone should take my situations as the outliers..
Click to expand...
Please don't stop commenting. I have found your advice very helpful and constructive. This is a tough business and people need to know it.
 
white pine said:
Madeleine said:
You're right. We should back off. There is no sense in alienating the folks who might be buying our businesses in a few years.
I, for one, will stop offering unsolicited advice to newbies.
However, I will still use this board as a place to GET info I need in order to run my business. And if that includes lifting the curtain to show how bad things can get, so be it. It has been my observation over the years that I get the tough customers that very few other innkeepers get. So, everyone should take my situations as the outliers..
Click to expand...
Please don't stop commenting. I have found your advice very helpful and constructive. This is a tough business and people need to know it.
.
Click to expand...
white pine said:
Please don't stop commenting. I have found your advice very helpful and constructive. This is a tough business and people need to know it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I really can't shut up, but I don't have to answer questions that weren't asked.
 
If people ask, we comment. And we tell the truth so they can take it or leave it. No need to sugar coat things..this is the way it is.
If someone would take an aspiring innkeeper course first, then they would know much of what we say.
We give our advice willingly but if people don't understand what we are saying...too bad.
People should do a search here first, read the threads and THEN ask away.
 
I don't think that I discourage people, but I do note my experience, since it is different than others. Around here, the big deal is the tax. Which is where the "Air" people are going wrong... if anything, government is more interested in their taxes and it's the easiest way to go after people. So many don't even realize that they are cheating the tax man and when the tax man cometh, he comes with a vengeance.
Just get your paperwork in order, the rest can be learnt on the job. It can always be improved on. As long as you provide the service in the way you would want to be served, you have about 80% of it. Which covers Pareto's principal.
Now, once you have it running and you run into trouble, this is the place to come for an opinion. You don't have to listen to it, because the advice you get here is based on people's experience and yours might be different. But it never hurts to hear how others would do it, or what they discovered works. Like the hollow ice core jugs for juice... ask Maddie, I think she's using the same ones that I use now :)
Of course, I know a few of the B&Bs that we talk about around here, but not all. One of these days I'll end up staying at someone's B&B and they won't realize who I am, and I won't realize who they are and we will end up telling PITA stories about each other on here....
 
Eric Arthur Blair said:
I don't think that I discourage people, but I do note my experience, since it is different than others. Around here, the big deal is the tax. Which is where the "Air" people are going wrong... if anything, government is more interested in their taxes and it's the easiest way to go after people. So many don't even realize that they are cheating the tax man and when the tax man cometh, he comes with a vengeance.
Just get your paperwork in order, the rest can be learnt on the job. It can always be improved on. As long as you provide the service in the way you would want to be served, you have about 80% of it. Which covers Pareto's principal.
Now, once you have it running and you run into trouble, this is the place to come for an opinion. You don't have to listen to it, because the advice you get here is based on people's experience and yours might be different. But it never hurts to hear how others would do it, or what they discovered works. Like the hollow ice core jugs for juice... ask Maddie, I think she's using the same ones that I use now :)
Of course, I know a few of the B&Bs that we talk about around here, but not all. One of these days I'll end up staying at someone's B&B and they won't realize who I am, and I won't realize who they are and we will end up telling PITA stories about each other on here.....
Click to expand...
Eric Arthur Blair said:
Like the hollow ice core jugs for juice... ask Maddie, I think she's using the same ones that I use now :)
Of course, I know a few of the B&Bs that we talk about around here, but not all. One of these days I'll end up staying at someone's B&B and they won't realize who I am, and I won't realize who they are and we will end up telling PITA stories about each other on here....
Click to expand...
Love those juice pitchers!
And, chances are, you might just stumble across us by accident. We are close to your preferred US shopping circle.
 
I happen to think rose-colored glasses ARE the worst things for starting a new venture, and having hope and enthusiasm is entirely different from wearing rose-colored glasses. Ignoring the cons of a business venture, whether through ignorance, naivete, or just not spending the brain power to figure it out, is the fastest way to get in over your head, run out of money, anger your neighbors and governing bodies, and/or give your guests a terrible experience which will reflect badly on the rest of us for eternity. I came into this with clear glasses, no tints - pros on one side, cons on the other. Agree or disagree if you want - everyone's mileage will vary - but as long as the advice is truthful and honest, even if only for that person's experience, why would we not give it?
 
Madeleine said:
Eric Arthur Blair said:
I don't think that I discourage people, but I do note my experience, since it is different than others. Around here, the big deal is the tax. Which is where the "Air" people are going wrong... if anything, government is more interested in their taxes and it's the easiest way to go after people. So many don't even realize that they are cheating the tax man and when the tax man cometh, he comes with a vengeance.
Just get your paperwork in order, the rest can be learnt on the job. It can always be improved on. As long as you provide the service in the way you would want to be served, you have about 80% of it. Which covers Pareto's principal.
Now, once you have it running and you run into trouble, this is the place to come for an opinion. You don't have to listen to it, because the advice you get here is based on people's experience and yours might be different. But it never hurts to hear how others would do it, or what they discovered works. Like the hollow ice core jugs for juice... ask Maddie, I think she's using the same ones that I use now :)
Of course, I know a few of the B&Bs that we talk about around here, but not all. One of these days I'll end up staying at someone's B&B and they won't realize who I am, and I won't realize who they are and we will end up telling PITA stories about each other on here.....
Click to expand...
Eric Arthur Blair said:
Like the hollow ice core jugs for juice... ask Maddie, I think she's using the same ones that I use now :)
Of course, I know a few of the B&Bs that we talk about around here, but not all. One of these days I'll end up staying at someone's B&B and they won't realize who I am, and I won't realize who they are and we will end up telling PITA stories about each other on here....
Click to expand...
Love those juice pitchers!
And, chances are, you might just stumble across us by accident. We are close to your preferred US shopping circle.
.
Click to expand...
Ah, but you are at an advantage, you know my name. I couldn't be incognito :)
 
No, I really don't think we're too hard on them generally. More than one of us here actually teach aspiring innkeeper courses and see first hand how just a little knowledge can make or break an innkeeping career. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people lose their retirement money or go bankrupt because they didn't have the right information or didn't do their proper research or more often than not, had those rose colored glasses on and thought it was going to be an easy ride once they got up and running or bought an existing. They had no idea how this business can take over your life. There's a reason that the average time for an innkeeper is only 7 1/2 years. One of these people I know spent 1.8 million on a place and within 6 months wanted out. By the time she was able to get out, the bank was going to take over and she lost EVERYTHING.
I've also had wonderful success stories with aspirings.
I've also had aspiring innkeeper interns here with me. I can usually tell in the first 24 hours if innkeeping is a good match for them. For those folks, usually after doing a couple of days of hands on learning, their dream of innkeeping changes and the reality hits. More often than not, those folks tell me they would rather just keep staying at b&bs rather than own one!
What's great about the interaction here on the forum is that one of us has 'been there and done that', no matter what the aspiring person is proposing. Honest feedback is essential for their success.
If someone comes on here 'in the final planning stage' and hasn't read a book or taken a course or done anything that needs to be done to ensure their future, then heck yeah...we need to help them by telling them the honest truth...good, bad, and everything in between. Those who really have a passion for it will listen and then go ahead with the next step. THOSE are the ones that will make a great innkeeper.
 
Madeleine said:
You're right. We should back off. There is no sense in alienating the folks who might be buying our businesses in a few years.
I, for one, will stop offering unsolicited advice to newbies.
However, I will still use this board as a place to GET info I need in order to run my business. And if that includes lifting the curtain to show how bad things can get, so be it. It has been my observation over the years that I get the tough customers that very few other innkeepers get. So, everyone should take my situations as the outliers..
Click to expand...
Maddy, your insight and your experience is rare. Please continue just as you have been.
 
Well number reason for small business failure is lack of capital. Thanks to our recent crisis and some very recent changes in our banking, you can now buy B&B's at 2003 prices and with less then 4% interest rates. So the market is helping aspirings right now.
This board is amazingly helpful. I think it is the best resource I have found for B&B advice. The bad news is I think that some people see the internet as the first step in acquiring knowledge about a prospective endeavor and not the last step. We just need to be aware that sometimes people will have the horse before the cart and it doesn't make them stupid but simply excited and a bit uninformed. I suffered through this and now have a thriving/decent B&B.
PS the top part applies to the USA.
 
toddburme said:
Well number reason for small business failure is lack of capital. Thanks to our recent crisis and some very recent changes in our banking, you can now buy B&B's at 2003 prices and with less then 4% interest rates. So the market is helping aspirings right now.
This board is amazingly helpful. I think it is the best resource I have found for B&B advice. The bad news is I think that some people see the internet as the first step in acquiring knowledge about a prospective endeavor and not the last step. We just need to be aware that sometimes people will have the horse before the cart and it doesn't make them stupid but simply excited and a bit uninformed. I suffered through this and now have a thriving/decent B&B.
PS the top part applies to the USA..
Click to expand...
toddburme said:
We just need to be aware that sometimes people will have the horse before the cart and it doesn't make them stupid but simply excited and a bit uninformed
Click to expand...
Right. But when people come on and ask questions, and we point them to information, and they come back with the same questions (hello, innfinancing again?) AND they gripe about how we depress them AND they call us annoying - we start to put them in another category altogether. For me - that category is IGNORE.
 
Breakfast Diva said:
No, I really don't think we're too hard on them generally. More than one of us here actually teach aspiring innkeeper courses and see first hand how just a little knowledge can make or break an innkeeping career. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people lose their retirement money or go bankrupt because they didn't have the right information or didn't do their proper research or more often than not, had those rose colored glasses on and thought it was going to be an easy ride once they got up and running or bought an existing. They had no idea how this business can take over your life. There's a reason that the average time for an innkeeper is only 7 1/2 years. One of these people I know spent 1.8 million on a place and within 6 months wanted out. By the time she was able to get out, the bank was going to take over and she lost EVERYTHING.
I've also had wonderful success stories with aspirings.
I've also had aspiring innkeeper interns here with me. I can usually tell in the first 24 hours if innkeeping is a good match for them. For those folks, usually after doing a couple of days of hands on learning, their dream of innkeeping changes and the reality hits. More often than not, those folks tell me they would rather just keep staying at b&bs rather than own one!
What's great about the interaction here on the forum is that one of us has 'been there and done that', no matter what the aspiring person is proposing. Honest feedback is essential for their success.
If someone comes on here 'in the final planning stage' and hasn't read a book or taken a course or done anything that needs to be done to ensure their future, then heck yeah...we need to help them by telling them the honest truth...good, bad, and everything in between. Those who really have a passion for it will listen and then go ahead with the next step. THOSE are the ones that will make a great innkeeper..
Click to expand...
Breakfast Diva said:
If someone comes on here 'in the final planning stage' and hasn't read a book or taken a course or done anything that needs to be done to ensure their future, then heck yeah...we need to help them by telling them the honest truth...good, bad, and everything in between. Those who really have a passion for it will listen and then go ahead with the next step. THOSE are the ones that will make a great innkeeper.
Click to expand...
This says it all, the difference between enthusiasm and BLIND enthusiasm.
 
toddburme said:
I know of several people on the board got a bit out of shape when joining, myself included. And most of us just went a head with it anyways...
Click to expand...
Same here. I put about 6 regulars on "ignore this person" my first few weeks here, but my ignore list is now just 2, and neither of them post here anymore anyway.
But I'd say those who are so thin-skinned they leave after the first discouraging words are perhaps not cut out for dealing with the public anyway. I've oven been inspired by Camberley, who once described herself as having skin as thick as an elephant's.
 
toddburme said:
Well number reason for small business failure is lack of capital. Thanks to our recent crisis and some very recent changes in our banking, you can now buy B&B's at 2003 prices and with less then 4% interest rates. So the market is helping aspirings right now.
This board is amazingly helpful. I think it is the best resource I have found for B&B advice. The bad news is I think that some people see the internet as the first step in acquiring knowledge about a prospective endeavor and not the last step. We just need to be aware that sometimes people will have the horse before the cart and it doesn't make them stupid but simply excited and a bit uninformed. I suffered through this and now have a thriving/decent B&B.
PS the top part applies to the USA..
Click to expand...
not just the USA babe its the entire fricking world! - and I know plently of people are are S##tt###g themselves about paying their mortgages right now - however they don't particularly do anything about it so i am sorry but im not particularly sympathetic
 
Madeleine said:
You're right. We should back off. There is no sense in alienating the folks who might be buying our businesses in a few years.
I, for one, will stop offering unsolicited advice to newbies.
However, I will still use this board as a place to GET info I need in order to run my business. And if that includes lifting the curtain to show how bad things can get, so be it. It has been my observation over the years that I get the tough customers that very few other innkeepers get. So, everyone should take my situations as the outliers..
Click to expand...
I wouldn't take what that chap said as common! we love you!
wink_smile.gif

 
[email protected] said:
toddburme said:
Well number reason for small business failure is lack of capital. Thanks to our recent crisis and some very recent changes in our banking, you can now buy B&B's at 2003 prices and with less then 4% interest rates. So the market is helping aspirings right now.
This board is amazingly helpful. I think it is the best resource I have found for B&B advice. The bad news is I think that some people see the internet as the first step in acquiring knowledge about a prospective endeavor and not the last step. We just need to be aware that sometimes people will have the horse before the cart and it doesn't make them stupid but simply excited and a bit uninformed. I suffered through this and now have a thriving/decent B&B.
PS the top part applies to the USA..
Click to expand...
not just the USA babe its the entire fricking world! - and I know plently of people are are S##tt###g themselves about paying their mortgages right now - however they don't particularly do anything about it so i am sorry but im not particularly sympathetic
.
Click to expand...
[email protected] said:
not just the USA babe its the entire fricking world! - and I know plently of people are are S##tt###g themselves about paying their mortgages right now - however they don't particularly do anything about it so i am sorry but im not particularly sympathetic
Click to expand...
Sorry, it's quite different around here... the prices never went down but they have made it more difficult to get a mortgage. And then we have to deal with all the illegal competition.
 
Arkansawyer said:
toddburme said:
I know of several people on the board got a bit out of shape when joining, myself included. And most of us just went a head with it anyways...
Click to expand...
Same here. I put about 6 regulars on "ignore this person" my first few weeks here, but my ignore list is now just 2, and neither of them post here anymore anyway.
But I'd say those who are so thin-skinned they leave after the first discouraging words are perhaps not cut out for dealing with the public anyway. I've oven been inspired by Camberley, who once described herself as having skin as thick as an elephant's..
Click to expand...
I spent 2 years answering the phone at the Inland revenue (ie the IRS for you yanks) every call was - you are ruining my life, you are putting me out of business, taking food out of my children's mouths etc - and believe me it wasn't easy - however it did inform me very bluntly about the nature of people who start their own businesses
(1) people who are doing their homework and asking for advice in advance 5%
(2) people who are too dumb to work for anyone else (30%
(3) the rest who are probably 75% there but have just missed a few bits on the way
the things people said - a man in a pub told me I would get 50% off my business rates for the first year - nope
one chap didn't check what he was paying for, complained it was high - turned out he was paying for 2 of his neighbours shops as well - all there on the internet and free to view (based on square meterage so easy to work out if your shop isnt' that big)
people who didn't know what their rent was, hadnt checked their business rate tax before signing a 10 year lease, people who thought being astonishingly rude was a way to get help out of the mess they had got themselves into and so on
I think its better to pull the rose tinted glasses off now. - just met an american couple who live in france really fancy opening a BB in france, if you arn't too large regs arn't too bad - said to her you have to decide one very important thing - do you want to clean toilets a day? if not you need to be large enough to have staff - if you don't mind then you can be smaller! she said thats good advice.
 

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