did you see this?

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 https://innkeeping.site-ym.com/news/99186/Innkeeping-Association-Condemns-Innkeepers-Facebook-Rant.htm

 

seashanty's picture
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being loud like that in a b&b is just rude ... no matter what kind of couple they may be.

are your rooms soundproofed?

i had a straight married couple stay with me and the man was extremely loud ... he shouted ... it was ridiculous. i actually stood outside their room and shouted to the chambermaid so that the couple would know ... i hoped ... that since they could hear me, i could hear them.  it didn't help.

i'll have to find the old post about it.

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You really can't start refunding based on biases. Next thing you know you'll have people telling you that women dressed in black are witches, that people who read THAT newspaper or watch THAT TV show are Satanists and anyone who doesn't eat red meat is anti-American. And I want my money back because I'm pretty sure one of them is staying in the cabin next door to me.

Best answer yet.   People with issues like the guests Bob mentioned need to STAY at HOME, anywhere else they may just run into someone that offends them. 

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I agree! Just wanted some opinions! The guest found out when the couple next to them were so loud doing their thing all night long. I think they had a different visual in their heads than what they saw coming out of the room next to them to go to breakfast! The gay couple were obvious to the other guests that they were not sisters or just good friends! I was lucky and did have a different room that I could move them to! We went 10 years without having any gay couples stay with us! In the last year or so we have had 5 or 6! I guess it's the latest trend so to speak!

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Im lucky here we have pretty thick walls plus the 2 bathrooms are on the walls between rooms ie provide and extra layer of barrier to sound. - Therefore you have to scream ruddy loud to be heard -

We've never had problems at breakfast with same sex couples and etc but that may be because everyone sits at their own table and we are a bit british and people don't tend to chat between tables anyway.

Plus weirdly as the British are internationally renound as the most conservative people in the world we are actually pretty liberal!

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camberleyhotelharrogate@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

we are a bit british and people don't tend to chat between tables anyway.

Yes, I've been to Yorkshire. A bit British indeed. I love it. Don't ever change!

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Have you ever read bill bryson's book about when he lived in Masham (this is about 10 miles from me) he's like after 10 years I got the finger wave this means you have been accepted into the community! thats about right! People make sure their kids are born here so that they can play cricket for Yorkshire which makes me laugh!

Also people from London can't believe how friendly people are - in London no one speaks to anyone! - told one of my guests who has a sort of medical condition where she can't tell what direction she is going in and can't use maps (sort of like the condition where people can't identify faces) I just told her to ask people and she looked at me like I was mad - when she came back - she was like "I asked lots of people and they were all really helpful!" told ya so! partly its because we are a conference town and are used to hundreds of lost people wandering about everywhere all the time.

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We live on the Bible Belt of the US. We don't have to many of them around! We do not discriminate against them! Anyone is welcome! That said, people are not use to them around here! They don't know how to react! So it makes people uncomfortable! We do welcome anyone at our B & B! To each is own! I just hope enough people stay straight to carry on the human race! Lol!

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Bob wrote:
We live on the Bible Belt of the US. We don't have to many of them around! We do not discriminate against them! Anyone is welcome! That said, people are not use to them around here! They don't know how to react! So it makes people uncomfortable! We do welcome anyone at our B & B! To each is own! I just hope enough people stay straight to carry on the human race! Lol!

i have a feeling there are more of 'them' around the bible belt than you might think.

i don't believe that people turn gay or 'stay straight' ... they are who they are.

 

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I will agree to disagree! One of our great friends husband walked out on her after 18 years of marriage and 3 kids for a guy! My wife had a boyfriend who she dated who turned gay later in life! I think some might be born that way but not all!

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Bob wrote:
I will agree to disagree! One of our great friends husband walked out on her after 18 years of marriage and 3 kids for a guy! My wife had a boyfriend who she dated who turned gay later in life! I think some might be born that way but not all!

Red heads are red headed. You can die it brown all you want, but you still have ginger hair.

Left handed people are lefties. You can learn to write with the other hand all you want, you can get beaten by a nun all you want, but you are still a leftie.

People hide their own identity. They swallow it. They do what they are supposed to do because others pressure them. They swallow their pride and marry because they want kids and it seems the only way. They repress who they are because of society, family, desires, personal hatred, etc. Eventually it just gets too much. It isn't that they changed, it is simply that they have stupidly been taught that it what they need to do.

Want to really understand the problem, take a look at those in the Ex-Gay camp. Some of the saddest people. The suicide rate is incredibly high... about a third! 

Recessive traits (mendeleian traits) in people run about 10%, lefties, ear lobe not attached, ginger hair, ability to smell cyanide, tongue rolling, morton's toe, etc. Funny, that number.

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Eric Arthur Blair wrote:

People hide their own identity. They swallow it. They do what they are supposed to do because others pressure them. They swallow their pride and marry because they want kids and it seems the only way. They repress who they are because of society, family, desires, personal hatred, etc. Eventually it just gets too much. It isn't that they changed, it is simply that they have stupidly been taught that it what they need to do.

Thank you for this insightful response.  This is my story.  I didn't "switch sides", I woke up and decided to live my life happily.  However, Society still controls much of my life because there are unspoken restraints on LGBT individuals that others just don't understand. 

 

 

Generic's picture
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Well, living in Canada, there are a lot less restraints. 

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K9 wrote:

Eric Arthur Blair wrote:

People hide their own identity. They swallow it. They do what they are supposed to do because others pressure them. They swallow their pride and marry because they want kids and it seems the only way. They repress who they are because of society, family, desires, personal hatred, etc. Eventually it just gets too much. It isn't that they changed, it is simply that they have stupidly been taught that it what they need to do.

Thank you for this insightful response.  This is my story.  I didn't "switch sides", I woke up and decided to live my life happily.  However, Society still controls much of my life because there are unspoken restraints on LGBT individuals that others just don't understand. 

You won't get that here.  If we weren't accepting,  then none of us would be here.  Be who you are to the best of your ability and you'll be on the right track.

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Yes, we accept everyone - smart, not-so-smart, sweeties (Seashanty), jackasses (my crowd), everyone

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gillumhouse wrote:

Yes, we accept everyone - smart, not-so-smart, sweeties (Seashanty), jackasses (my crowd), everyone

 By "my crowd" she means me. 

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Proud Texan wrote:

gillumhouse wrote:

Yes, we accept everyone - smart, not-so-smart, sweeties (Seashanty), jackasses (my crowd), everyone

 By "my crowd" she means me. 

How can you say that? I thought you were just a lovable little fuzzball!

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"Recessive traits (mendeleian traits) in people run about 10%, lefties, ear lobe not attached, ginger hair, ability to smell cyanide, tongue rolling, morton's toe, etc. Funny, that number."

Wow, I did't know I was in the 10% for several things listed - I am special

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Smelling cyanide? You either can or you can't? I never knew that.

You must be a leftie. You told that nun story very convincingly. Did they tie your left hand to the desk and force you to write with your right hand? We could have a whole day just commiserating on what we all went thru in Catholic school. Lefties run in my family. Not fast enough to get away from the nuns mind. Eye-wink All the righties are ambidextrous. We can also write with our toes. But don't tell the nuns!

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Madeleine wrote:

Smelling cyanide? You either can or you can't? I never knew that.

You must be a leftie. You told that nun story very convincingly. Did they tie your left hand to the desk and force you to write with your right hand? We could have a whole day just commiserating on what we all went thru in Catholic school. Lefties run in my family. Not fast enough to get away from the nuns mind. Eye-wink All the righties are ambidextrous. We can also write with our toes. But don't tell the nuns!

Apparently smelling cyanide is a recessive trait, about 10% of the population can smell it (and it smells like almonds). Another odd trait is the ability to taste Phenylthiocarbamide, which is very bitter and it's the dominant trait. And of course the widow's peak on the hairline is recessive. I have the dry earwax recessive trait, unfortunately.

No, not a leftie and they didn't let us Jewish people into Catholic schools. One of my favourite teachers told us the stories of having lived through that. And MoH's sister had the same thing, until her father stepped in and told the nun to stop.

There was a leftie shop and I used to buy pens there. Because Hebrew is right to left, you run your hand over the letters, just as lefties do in English. So the fast drying pen was useful.

 

Madeleine's picture
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Oh, doh. I knew you're Jewish. Dope slap.

I knew cyanide smells like burnt almonds because of Agatha Christie but no one ever mentioned that not everyone can smell it.

And there's the whole tongue curling thing, too. Ah, yes, the genetics section in biology class was all fun and games.

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Bob wrote:
I will agree to disagree! One of our great friends husband walked out on her after 18 years of marriage and 3 kids for a guy! My wife had a boyfriend who she dated who turned gay later in life! I think some might be born that way but not all!

Ever heard of a closet? It's fear that keep some people there for many different reasons, especially in the bible belt.

I have had more than 1 gay couple hug me in tears, thanking me for accepting and treating them as we treat everyone. And this is a very liberal state. One of the reasons we get a lot of same sex couples is because they don't have to sit at a table with others who may judge them. I would imagine in the bible belt, most same sex couples don't choose to stay in a b&b for that reason.

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Bob wrote:
I will agree to disagree! One of our great friends husband walked out on her after 18 years of marriage and 3 kids for a guy! My wife had a boyfriend who she dated who turned gay later in life! I think some might be born that way but not all!

In a word RUBBISH. But you are entitled to your opinion.

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Bob wrote:
We live on the Bible Belt of the US....people are not use to them around here! They don't know how to react!

Time to learn.

Reminds me of when, in my childhood, black folks could sit only in the balcony at our local movie theater.

One day, about 1966, a black woman (it's always a woman) went downstairs and had a seat. Nobody said a word and now that woman is a local legend and hero for setting things right.

The first mixed race couple appeared on the streets here about 1978. Again, nobody said a word. No problem. Another barrier broken and behind us. We're in the Bible Belt too, but I think we're a bit British here!

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Aaahhhhhh, the SCREAMERS. We had a straight couple that used to come here to meet - he was taking care of his ancient mother. Talk about screamers!!! Fortunately every time they came, they were the only ones inn-house. Then his mother died and they got married (they were not young kids).

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I guess it's the latest trend so to speak! 

I don't think being gay is a trend...

Kind of too bad the guests were THAT noisy. I would also have moved the other couple and had a serious look at the soundproofing. I know we're not soundproof here but so far no complaints other than one couple who were upset with a couple of kids who they said sounded like a herd of elephants going up the stairs at 10 PM.

 

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Madeleine wrote:

 

I guess it's the latest trend so to speak! 

I don't think being gay is a trend...

Arks's picture
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You really can't start refunding based on biases.

Well said. We shoot to please the norm, not the extremes.

Arks's picture
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...they were so uncomfortable they wanted to check out!

In 2012, I'd say it's their choice and their problem. You're required by both law and decency to welcome all guests. People who can't tolerate the presence of a gay couple are just going to have to pay the price for continuing to live in the 1950's. In other words, no refund.

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Arkansawyer wrote:

...they were so uncomfortable they wanted to check out!

In 2012, I'd say it's their choice and their problem. You're required by both law and decency to welcome all guests. People who can't tolerate the presence of a gay couple are just going to have to pay the price for continuing to live in the 1950's. In other words, no refund.

 Amen.    

I've been toying with the thought of stating on our website that we do not discriminate based on race, creed, political affiliation or sexual orientation.   As you inferred,  in 2012, it should be obvious, but apparently it's not.  

I really do have to wonder about the closeted issues these people have to feel so uncomfortable around gays, especially at the breakfast table.   Unless they were doing something other than eating,  it's ridiculous.

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I do not wish to voice my opinion on this. I do have a question! We have had a few same sex couples stay at our place! It has made for some very uncomfortable breakfasts in the morning! People are very quit and eat very fast or leave! My question is this! I had a couple after learning of the same sex couple staying on property, they were so uncomfortable they wanted to check out! They still had 3 days left to stay. How would you of handled this?

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What the hell were they afraid of, recruitment?

It is their problem, not yours. You won't or can't discriminate. You sympathize with them that they feel this way, but unfortunately you can't discriminate against the other couple. They may do as they wish, but unfortunately, you can't refund their money because it is their personal problem, and has nothing to do with the other couple or you. Sympathy that they feel that way, not with what they feel.

I guess I don't have the problem, because if they did, they wouldn't stay here. Though, I have to say that some guests have left us pamphlets. And there was the fake T/A review.

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why were these guests so uncomfortable?

why was breakfast uncomfortable?

were people cuddling and kissing at the breakfast table?  frankly, i find any big physical displays of affection by any kind of couple off - putting ... but i would not check out because of it. 

how did the uncomfortable people know the other guests weren't brothers or sisters or friends sharing a room? 

i went to a wedding in maine and some of the guests decided to share a room and a bed ... not my preference but rooms were scarce and they didn't go over the max for the room.  not a problem. two sisters shared a room, two brothers shared a room, a mother and daughter shared a room (both adults), two male cousins shared a room, and a gay couple shared a room. 

if a guest told me they wanted to check out because a gay couple was staying ... well, they can if they wish to, but the room has been charged to their credit card and that's that.  i wouldn't want guests to stay with me if they were unhappy for any reason .... but they might check in at a hotel and discover gay couples in nearby rooms.

i had a fair number of same sex couples stay at my b&b and nothing seemed amiss ... i had no problem with them and as far as i know my straight guests were not checking to see how many rooms were booked and who slept where.  i had eight rooms, so that makes a difference perhaps.  

i remember my late father, upon meeting a gay couple in the supermarket ... men who shared a house and who lived in his neighborhood ... he chatted a bit with them and as he and i walked away he commented, 'two old bachelors i suppose'.  it just didn't occur to him to think otherwise.

 

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Wow. We've had lots of same sex couples here and haven't noticed any degradation in the conversation at breakfast. Curious how your guests 'found out' there was a same sex couple in the house? How did they know this 'couple' wasn't really just friends traveling together?

I do have to say that we haven't had too much in the way of PDA around here. So most guests could hazard a guess but would never really know.

We have a LOT of sisters who stay with us to 'meet halfway' and often the only rooms left have one bed. They don't care. So, if another guest were nosy and peeked into the room when the women opened the door they'd be stymied as to the relationship. They could think anything they wanted.

OTOH, you asked how we would handle someone being obviously upset by what they found here. If the upset couple had not been harassed by the couple they didn't like (for whatever reason, it doesn't have to be that they were gay) we'd let them know we accept everyone openly, including people with beliefs other than our own. And we're sorry we can't refund you because you don't like XYZ. If the couple had been harassed we'd ask the harassing couple to leave.

You really can't start refunding based on biases. Next thing you know you'll have people telling you that women dressed in black are witches, that people who read THAT newspaper or watch THAT TV show are Satanists and anyone who doesn't eat red meat is anti-American. And I want my money back because I'm pretty sure one of them is staying in the cabin next door to me.

We have a couple of really sweet guys who stay with us every year. They bring mom along. If a boy's mother can stand to be in a suite with her son and his companion, then a guest in another room can just grow up.

Even guests who have told us right up front that they are very conservative have had no problem dealing with finding a gay couple at the next table at breakfast.

Don't even throw in children here as a reason to leave. It's a perfect teaching moment for parents of all stripes.

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I think (remember I was not in that position so cannot know in "real-time") I would have offered the uncomfortable couple another location or time for their breakfast so they would not have been "exposed" to a situation that was not of the making of anyone other than themselves - but your job is to give them a pleasant experience IF POSSIBLE. The offer of different location/time for breakfast is the best you could do. If that was not enough, if they leave, they leave - no refund. YOU did nothing to precipitate their departure.

So - what DID you do?

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 I posted on the wall, but, of course, it's been removed. I simply stated that not only does this woman NOT speak for all Christians, she also does NOT speak for all innkeepers! Most of us are quite welcoming of all persons, regardless of (fill in the blank) preferences. Those of us who might be less tolerant of guests that don't fit our definition of 'perfect' do well to keep our mouths shut.

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I in NO WAY condone the acts of this innkeeper in her posts - no way, no how.  I just feel that adding even more links and quotes about this idiot just adds more fuel.  I for one am looking for a quick death to this. 

Now maybe some reporter will step up make a positive story about how innkeepers come in all shapes and sizes, cultures and backgrounds and our B&B's are as unique as we are. 

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copperhead wrote:
I in NO WAY condone the acts of this innkeeper in her posts - no way, no how.  I just feel that adding even more links and quotes about this idiot just adds more fuel.  I for one am looking for a quick death to this.

  I think the 24-hour news cycle has taken care of that - the story has dropped off the charts.

copperhead wrote:
Now maybe some reporter will step up make a positive story about how innkeepers come in all shapes and sizes, cultures and backgrounds and our B&B's are as unique as we are. 

I think that's unlikely, given how closely this followed the finalization of the Canadian case of denial of service. I just hope no one does the negative story that ties all of these up in one. Hopefully the PAII statement will serve as a preemptive strike.

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She's an embarassment to the industry and gotten all too much attention. 

Here's facebook is https://www.facebook.com/pages/Camp-Whitebriar-animals-organic-gardens-Cooking-from-scratch-swimming/178920295483914

She removed the remarks from her facebook page. You can see them at https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150976627288937&set=a.10150092235363937.263118.635748936&type=3&theater

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And did you see this? They have a big "flashing arrow" sign in the B&B yard to get across their point. These are not representative of normal B&B folks.

 

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Wow. The ugly side really showing itself.

Thanks Muirford.

Trying hard to avoid any religious or political comments on this, but it's not easy.

I guess there's no shortage of places I can go vent, though, that welcome such comments. I know this is not the place.

But I guess we CAN discuss here the implications for a business taking such a position. Time will tell if offending part of the population while making another part love you, makes good business sense. There are plenty of examples of politicians saying things that stir up their supporters but also stir up their opponent's supporters.

Personally, I'd like to have EVERYBODY'S business, as long as they don't smoke inside, sneak their pets in, or otherwise trash my property.

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Arkansawyer wrote:
Trying hard to avoid any religious or political comments on this, but it's not easy.

You're right, it's not easy, but it can be done, I think.  No one disagrees with her right to have her own opinion.  If you choose to disclose what your stance is - by having a political sign on your lawn, for example - and it is associated with your business, then you should be prepared for people to make choices about patronizing your business (or not) based on that information.  Like you said.

PAII felt they needed to respond because of the hate-speech rant that the business owner posted under the business's name in a public forum which has been spread around the country virally and adversely affecting the perception of all innkeepers.  I think PAII did the right thing by addressing it.  There has been a long thread about it on the PAII forum, and most of the innkeepers posting (but not all) agreed that it was needed and well-handled by PAII.  Undoubtedly, the PAII CEO and PAII board will receive some hate mail themselves for taking the position.

birdwatcher's picture
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All i can say is WOW!

gillumhouse's picture
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I discriminate. I do not allow sheep in my rooms.

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gillumhouse wrote:

I discriminate. I do not allow sheep in my rooms.

 Do you have that problem on a regular basis?    Do you discriminate because of the dietary requirements?

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They shed and yes, they are just too demanding with dietary requests.

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gillumhouse wrote:

I discriminate. I do not allow sheep in my rooms.

No sheep? So your guests have to count doilies to go to sleep?

(Sorry, I'm really trying to get my mind off of doilies, but I guess I was frightened by one as a childl)

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Arkansawyer wrote:

gillumhouse wrote:

I discriminate. I do not allow sheep in my rooms.

No sheep? So your guests have to count doilies to go to sleep?

(Sorry, I'm really trying to get my mind off of doilies, but I guess I was frightened by one as a childl)

 

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 https://www.facebook.com/carole.lokanmoore?sk=wall

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It's not that facebook page that caused the problem.  You can see the full story with a transcript of the offensive post here.  It was picked up by the mainstream press, went viral, and PAII responded to that.

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muirford wrote:

It's not that facebook page that caused the problem.  You can see the full story with a transcript of the offensive post here.  It was picked up by the mainstream press, went viral, and PAII responded to that.

That's disgusting.   How "Christian" of her.

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