Technical question regarding web Code

[EmptyNest]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.

If it works for you that's great. For me it just wouldn't let me do what I wanted without a lot of work. Is it possible to give me your web site address so I can have a look - I am curious.
Have a look at this wordpress-fans-beware-main-disadvantages-of-using-wordpress - It has a large number of points, a lot of which I personally think are advantages rather than disadvantages but all the same it is interesting. Some of the comments are also interesting. They range from 'what a load of rubbish the article is' to 'Yes fully agree.'
Basically I think the conclusion is - a brilliant piece of code but not for everyone.
Certainly from the work I did, I would say Concrete5 is better solution for a web site if you really must go down the CMS route.
.

I have done over 100 websites...so to give you one...that would be tough. Here's one: http://sharprockvineyards.com Don't know what he has done with it since I finished it. I provide training so they can maintain themselves. This was done with the ENFOLD theme. another innmate here just had his redone with me helping him. I will let him post the url if he wishes.
.

Here's an interesting FB page a friend put me on to: http://www.facebook.com/pixifire
She has lots of interesting tidbits.

 

[swaapc]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.

If it works for you that's great. For me it just wouldn't let me do what I wanted without a lot of work. Is it possible to give me your web site address so I can have a look - I am curious.
Have a look at this wordpress-fans-beware-main-disadvantages-of-using-wordpress - It has a large number of points, a lot of which I personally think are advantages rather than disadvantages but all the same it is interesting. Some of the comments are also interesting. They range from 'what a load of rubbish the article is' to 'Yes fully agree.'
Basically I think the conclusion is - a brilliant piece of code but not for everyone.
Certainly from the work I did, I would say Concrete5 is better solution for a web site if you really must go down the CMS route.
.

I have done over 100 websites...so to give you one...that would be tough. Here's one: http://sharprockvineyards.com Don't know what he has done with it since I finished it. I provide training so they can maintain themselves. This was done with the ENFOLD theme. another innmate here just had his redone with me helping him. I will let him post the url if he wishes.
.

I have done over 100 websites...so to give you one...that would be tough. Here's one: http://sharprockvineyards.com Don't know what he has done with it since I finished it. I provide training so they can maintain themselves. This was done with the ENFOLD theme. another innmate here just had his redone with me helping him. I will let him post the url if he wishes.

Ah - Sorry I thought you were designing the web site for yourself. If you are designing and building it for someone else then I fully agree that Wordpress is one of the better solutions. In those circumstances the solution really has to be a CMS so Wordpress fits the bill.

 

[swaapc]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.

If it works for you that's great. For me it just wouldn't let me do what I wanted without a lot of work. Is it possible to give me your web site address so I can have a look - I am curious.
Have a look at this wordpress-fans-beware-main-disadvantages-of-using-wordpress - It has a large number of points, a lot of which I personally think are advantages rather than disadvantages but all the same it is interesting. Some of the comments are also interesting. They range from 'what a load of rubbish the article is' to 'Yes fully agree.'
Basically I think the conclusion is - a brilliant piece of code but not for everyone.
Certainly from the work I did, I would say Concrete5 is better solution for a web site if you really must go down the CMS route.
.

I have done over 100 websites...so to give you one...that would be tough. Here's one: http://sharprockvineyards.com Don't know what he has done with it since I finished it. I provide training so they can maintain themselves. This was done with the ENFOLD theme. another innmate here just had his redone with me helping him. I will let him post the url if he wishes.
.

Here's an interesting FB page a friend put me on to: http://www.facebook.com/pixifire
She has lots of interesting tidbits.
.

Thanks - I will have a look.

 

[Copperhead]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering).

Chiming in here a little late but just want to point out that with this change on Google, you will never see the figures rise as Google will not be showing them.
Additionally don't put too much faith in the fact that most phone users are only looking for that last minute place to stay. I get a lot of calls while people are on their lunch break or going home from the office. It is the only time they have, the only available access at the time.
And who's to say - could be that the 20% mobile users could represent 40% of your bookings!
The web is changing every day, blink and what was the thing to do today will be yesterdays news. Each day you drag behind the more business you could be loosing.
Thanks to EN for continually pushing us to check our site for this current change. We had a few issues that had to be corrected to meet the current needs. Good to go now!

 

[Momma Smurf]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering).

Chiming in here a little late but just want to point out that with this change on Google, you will never see the figures rise as Google will not be showing them.
Additionally don't put too much faith in the fact that most phone users are only looking for that last minute place to stay. I get a lot of calls while people are on their lunch break or going home from the office. It is the only time they have, the only available access at the time.
And who's to say - could be that the 20% mobile users could represent 40% of your bookings!
The web is changing every day, blink and what was the thing to do today will be yesterdays news. Each day you drag behind the more business you could be loosing.
Thanks to EN for continually pushing us to check our site for this current change. We had a few issues that had to be corrected to meet the current needs. Good to go now!
.

Just want to point out that with this change on Google, you will never see the figures rise as Google will not be showing them.

Great point Copper. If one is at 10% now with mobile viewings, there is no chance to ever rise to 20% (to evaluate) without a "mobile-friendly" site. In theory, mobile stats should fall to near 0% if they are not appearing. I suppose if there is not a lot of competition in the rankings, they still many be found. And there are still the mini-Search Engines. Would be interesting to see how quickly that 10% falls.

 

[EmptyNest]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering).

Chiming in here a little late but just want to point out that with this change on Google, you will never see the figures rise as Google will not be showing them.
Additionally don't put too much faith in the fact that most phone users are only looking for that last minute place to stay. I get a lot of calls while people are on their lunch break or going home from the office. It is the only time they have, the only available access at the time.
And who's to say - could be that the 20% mobile users could represent 40% of your bookings!
The web is changing every day, blink and what was the thing to do today will be yesterdays news. Each day you drag behind the more business you could be loosing.
Thanks to EN for continually pushing us to check our site for this current change. We had a few issues that had to be corrected to meet the current needs. Good to go now!
.

Just want to point out that with this change on Google, you will never see the figures rise as Google will not be showing them.

Great point Copper. If one is at 10% now with mobile viewings, there is no chance to ever rise to 20% (to evaluate) without a "mobile-friendly" site. In theory, mobile stats should fall to near 0% if they are not appearing. I suppose if there is not a lot of competition in the rankings, they still many be found. And there are still the mini-Search Engines. Would be interesting to see how quickly that 10% falls.
.

You don't have to worry Momma. You are responsive and mobile friendly

 

[Momma Smurf]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering).

Chiming in here a little late but just want to point out that with this change on Google, you will never see the figures rise as Google will not be showing them.
Additionally don't put too much faith in the fact that most phone users are only looking for that last minute place to stay. I get a lot of calls while people are on their lunch break or going home from the office. It is the only time they have, the only available access at the time.
And who's to say - could be that the 20% mobile users could represent 40% of your bookings!
The web is changing every day, blink and what was the thing to do today will be yesterdays news. Each day you drag behind the more business you could be loosing.
Thanks to EN for continually pushing us to check our site for this current change. We had a few issues that had to be corrected to meet the current needs. Good to go now!
.

Just want to point out that with this change on Google, you will never see the figures rise as Google will not be showing them.

Great point Copper. If one is at 10% now with mobile viewings, there is no chance to ever rise to 20% (to evaluate) without a "mobile-friendly" site. In theory, mobile stats should fall to near 0% if they are not appearing. I suppose if there is not a lot of competition in the rankings, they still many be found. And there are still the mini-Search Engines. Would be interesting to see how quickly that 10% falls.
.

You don't have to worry Momma. You are responsive and mobile friendly
.

Yes! Thanks to you!

 

[swaapc]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.

If it works for you that's great. For me it just wouldn't let me do what I wanted without a lot of work. Is it possible to give me your web site address so I can have a look - I am curious.
Have a look at this wordpress-fans-beware-main-disadvantages-of-using-wordpress - It has a large number of points, a lot of which I personally think are advantages rather than disadvantages but all the same it is interesting. Some of the comments are also interesting. They range from 'what a load of rubbish the article is' to 'Yes fully agree.'
Basically I think the conclusion is - a brilliant piece of code but not for everyone.
Certainly from the work I did, I would say Concrete5 is better solution for a web site if you really must go down the CMS route.
.

I have done over 100 websites...so to give you one...that would be tough. Here's one: http://sharprockvineyards.com Don't know what he has done with it since I finished it. I provide training so they can maintain themselves. This was done with the ENFOLD theme. another innmate here just had his redone with me helping him. I will let him post the url if he wishes.
.

I have done over 100 websites...so to give you one...that would be tough. Here's one: http://sharprockvineyards.com Don't know what he has done with it since I finished it. I provide training so they can maintain themselves. This was done with the ENFOLD theme. another innmate here just had his redone with me helping him. I will let him post the url if he wishes.

Hi, Just had a deeper look at the above web site. Interestingly it is Mobile Friendly according to Google but it requires a download of 2Mbytes of data (to get to the first picture with a clean cache). Around here if you were not connected via wi-fi that would take at best 30 seconds to load and at worst 320 second (2G without any enhanced service which I think is what we actually get). Even with wifi the average user (2mbps is all most people get in our rural location) in our area would possibly take 8 seconds (even on a PC).
These figures are taken from data collected on a PC so if there is some clever analysis of network capacity or changing of image size due to it being delivered to a small screen I would be way out. This data was collected with a browser window size of 528px by 981px).
Am I missing something?
Sorry I am not trying to be critical or awkward I am just trying to understand.

 

[gillumhouse]

We have been talking about the mobile. Unless they are doing the Goo thing later tonight, I checked my site on my iPhone just now and it is there. Yes, I have to scroll a bit - the menu stays put, but I can be found. That is what counts..

 

[anniesguesthouse]

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS..

I don't have the answer but I am sure google does.
I know that iframes are pretty big no nos for security purposes now on the web as it is vulnerable. I know many of us used iframes when we wanted to embed our online reservation system and it would not show the httpS.

Hi,
I can't find anything on Google about it but then I may be asking the wrong question or it is so obvious no one has asked the question before.
I didn't realise that Iframes were a security issue. Any idea why? In general I don't use Iframes but I just can't think of another way of achieving what I am after. Maybe I will have to come up with another 'cunning plan'.
.

Why don't you pose the question as what you are trying to achieve/why - whatever to explain what you want it to do. There are some brains here that will probably be able to help if they know what result you are looking for. (I am NOT one of them.)
.

Good idea.
Here is what I am trying to do:
If you have a look at http://www.bolehill.com/peak-district-cottages_2.php (this is a test site so don't worry about my stats etc). At the bottom right hand side of each Cottage tab is a Rates per week area. What I am planning to do is add a form with a dropdown calendar and length of stay box. This would submit an Ajax request for the result (all the sever side code is already working as I use it on other pages already). Now to do this for a single Tab/cottage is trivial but to do it for 8 seems a bit messy if I just replicate the code 9 times (two pages need this). So my thought was produce the code once, get it working then use an Iframe to display the little form then put the response back on the parent page.
I could use a php call (as is the current 'Rates per week' ) but that would mean writing the html in php which from past experience isn't that easy, if the html has any complexity and needs testing. Its the testing of the code that is the killer to me.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.
.

From a SEO perspective Chris wouldn't you prefer visitors to have to look at more pages for longer rather than give them the quick "how much?" answer then leave? I'd be tempted to just use the "weekly rates from..." then have them go to your full availability calender to see all rates and availability. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I had never thought of it that way.
I suppose I design web pages using the concept of "Don't make me Think" (brilliant book if anyone has read it) and therefore the concept of getting someone to go to another page to search is a bit against this concept. Our old web pages gave the user the ability to 'see' availability for each cottage in a monthly calendar view but not prices so this time round I was looking to be able to give the users availability and prices.
Regarding SEO I gave up any attempt at SEO after Panda and Penguin. I just got fed up of Google wagging my tail. I spent hours and hours on it and was relatively successful (Page one for most of our primary keywords) but once Panda and Penguin arrive and with the OTA dominance of search I just couldn't see the justification any longer. The site is now written for users not Google.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.
But I have to have the desire to stay there. That's done with engaging photos and your location in an area I want to be. Then I will delve into the calendar with prices.
You could also give a range of prices on the pages with the cottage photos. "See availability calendar for exact rates during your stay."
I don't think any US websites give the rates on the homepage unless that's the only page they have. (2 places in my town do that.) Not that you want to design for us.
.

Don't make me think also has to include don't make me call, write or otherwise engage with a human while I'm doing my research.
As a guest I do want easy access to prices before I fall in love and realize I cant afford to stay there.

Yes I think it is brilliant design principle and one I always strive towards.
If you are interested the book is called "Don't Make ME Think" by Steve Krug. My copy is way out of date but I notice he has come out with an update. I can't say I have read it cover to cover but I certainly read the first half of the book then dipping in here and there. I found it fascinating. He has done lots of work on how humans 'see' web pages and where you need to put key items etc. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about responsive design. That really has made a mess of things.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.
.

Yes. Responsive design reworks the whole site into a single column. You really have to focus your whole design around what it will render as on a phone. While still keeping it inviting for a full screen.
I forget this and put stuff in the right hand column and it disappears to the bottom of the page on a phone.

I looked at it another way. Why would anyone want to look for Self Catering Accommodation on a Phone? And if they did, did they really want a naff single column? My previous site detected phones and immediately offered either the full web site or a Phone optimised site. This was a second site that could only be seen properly on a small screen ie small pics etc, minimal wording, very easy navigation and would load quickly over a wet piece of string. Over the three years I had that configuration 80%+ chose to see the full site rather than the mobile site (and I assume pinch and scroll). The stats also told me that less than 10% of the views of our website were from phones. I personally hate the single column approach on my phone and am always looking for the 'grown ups view'.
I, therefore, decided I would design for tablets upwards. What the phone size users saw was of minor consequence (well not quite but you get the point). Some 'stuff' I just don't display to phone users. This gave me a far simpler approach to design and also captured 90% of my users. For the phone users I have provided a Toggle at the top of every page to enable them to toggle the site between Phone view and "grown ups view".
Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones). I think the better (and possibly cheaper) approach is to have a specific site for phone users. What do they actually NEED and give them it. They don't want 100s of pictures and 1000s of words. What they might like (for a self catering establishment ) is easy access to directions, contact details, nearest pub that sort of thing.
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291
.

Personally I am not a great fan of responsive design (especially for Phones).

We are now up to 18% Mobile Searches. Tomorrow's update is supposed to be more devastating than Panda or Penguin if not properly prepared.
http://searchengineland.com/tomorrow-is-mobilegeddon-are-you-ready-for-the-google-mobile-friendly-update-219291

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.
"Q: Will it impact desktop searchers? Will my desktop rankings drop?
A: No, it will only impact mobile searchers and will have no impact on your desktop rankings.
Q: Will it impact tablet searchers?
A: No, this only impacts searches done on mobile smartphone devices, not tablets."
Two things really annoy me about this whole thing: 1) the way consultants have yet again talked up the whole problem and 2) and this is the killer to me. Who appointed Google as the arbitrator of what is good and bad for Mobile users.
.

I don't see this as a major issue as it only affects Smartphones searches and as that is less than 10% for us I don't really care.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.
.

I hear you, I too really really liked my old html non-responsive site and didn't want to change, but unfortunately the world is changing. It took EN several months to convince me to go to WP.
I just looked at my stats again for mobile usage for the same time period Jan 1 through today:
2014: 10.9% Mobile Searches
2015: 19.8% Mobile Searches
Yikes! Almost Doubled... and this is not our busy tourist season when folks are on the road traveling hunting for places to stay. 2014's 10.9% jumped to 14.6% in the summer. Does this mean 30% Mobile Searches this year during peak season? Anyone in our area who is Not Mobile Friendly is going to be out of luck, because they are simply not going to appear. So yay for us... but woe to those who aren't aware.

Don't forget at 20% that still leaves 80% of users not on Phones. I have to admit if our figures get up to 20% I will start taking more notice (we are still below 10% - don't forget we are Self Catering). We have a responsive site that is as good or as bad as most responsive phone sites but it could be a lot better if I put time into it. I think I would have to approach it from another angle though (ie possibly not responsive). I would need to figure a way of detecting network capacity and serve images appropriately and of convincing Google that it was 'Mobile friendly'.
WP is fine. I have built a number of small web sites using it but it does have some major limitations. Yes you can do most things if you write your own themes and Plugins but even they have limitations within the Wordpress environment. A Framework approach releases you from most of these constraints (it does add others but you don't have to be fully compliant with the framework

).
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.
.

I have no limitations with WP. I don't write the theme nor do I write plugins. But I do Custom Css to get things to look just the way I want them.

If it works for you that's great. For me it just wouldn't let me do what I wanted without a lot of work. Is it possible to give me your web site address so I can have a look - I am curious.
Have a look at this wordpress-fans-beware-main-disadvantages-of-using-wordpress - It has a large number of points, a lot of which I personally think are advantages rather than disadvantages but all the same it is interesting. Some of the comments are also interesting. They range from 'what a load of rubbish the article is' to 'Yes fully agree.'
Basically I think the conclusion is - a brilliant piece of code but not for everyone.
Certainly from the work I did, I would say Concrete5 is better solution for a web site if you really must go down the CMS route.
.

I have done over 100 websites...so to give you one...that would be tough. Here's one: http://sharprockvineyards.com Don't know what he has done with it since I finished it. I provide training so they can maintain themselves. This was done with the ENFOLD theme. another innmate here just had his redone with me helping him. I will let him post the url if he wishes.
.

I have done over 100 websites...so to give you one...that would be tough. Here's one: http://sharprockvineyards.com Don't know what he has done with it since I finished it. I provide training so they can maintain themselves. This was done with the ENFOLD theme. another innmate here just had his redone with me helping him. I will let him post the url if he wishes.

Hi, Just had a deeper look at the above web site. Interestingly it is Mobile Friendly according to Google but it requires a download of 2Mbytes of data (to get to the first picture with a clean cache). Around here if you were not connected via wi-fi that would take at best 30 seconds to load and at worst 320 second (2G without any enhanced service which I think is what we actually get). Even with wifi the average user (2mbps is all most people get in our rural location) in our area would possibly take 8 seconds (even on a PC).
These figures are taken from data collected on a PC so if there is some clever analysis of network capacity or changing of image size due to it being delivered to a small screen I would be way out. This data was collected with a browser window size of 528px by 981px).
Am I missing something?
Sorry I am not trying to be critical or awkward I am just trying to understand.
.

I think this goes back to what we were talking about the other day Chris, ticking all of the "perfect" web design boxes is completely different to ranking well with Google and now, with this silly "mobilegeddon" stuff, the third is being mobile friendly (or not).

Using this vineyards page as an example, I did a search for "b&b vineyard in virginia" which you'd want that site to rank for right? But it wasn't on the first page of results. So the site looks great (my fast internet made me not notice any 2MB download Chris ) but if it's not "up there" on the search engines what's the point?! I can definitely see how a beautiful site can convert lookers into bookers but if they can't find you in the first place then there's something that needs fixing. Just mho.

 

[Momma Smurf]

We have been talking about the mobile. Unless they are doing the Goo thing later tonight, I checked my site on my iPhone just now and it is there. Yes, I have to scroll a bit - the menu stays put, but I can be found. That is what counts...

The rollout began today and is going to take 7 days according to the Big G. That said, I did a mobile search last night and don't see much difference in today's results AND there are still definitely very old school sites appearing in the top three box. So a week from now, everyone can feel safe or know where they stand. Hopefully GH there's not enough competition in your area to affect you. We have lots of competitors here.

 

[gillumhouse]

We have been talking about the mobile. Unless they are doing the Goo thing later tonight, I checked my site on my iPhone just now and it is there. Yes, I have to scroll a bit - the menu stays put, but I can be found. That is what counts...

The rollout began today and is going to take 7 days according to the Big G. That said, I did a mobile search last night and don't see much difference in today's results AND there are still definitely very old school sites appearing in the top three box. So a week from now, everyone can feel safe or know where they stand. Hopefully GH there's not enough competition in your area to affect you. We have lots of competitors here.
.

Unless they are looking for B & B, I was probably already dead meat. There are more hotels along the Interstate than Carter has pills.