Absence of Proof Proof

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

Our Guests stayed at another B&B prior to us and commented on how spacious our bathroom and room were here. Mind you they even had the smallest room we have! They stayed at a place the night before that installed a bathroom in a closet. The room itself was so small you had to step outside to turn around.
They said the bathroom was extremely small so there was a curtain for a door since they couldn't even install a pocket door. The walls didn't go all the way up to the ceiling either.
I just looked at their listing on a directory where a guest review commented on the lack of privacy and tiny bathroom. They have all stellar reviews, btw, except this one small comment. The owners replied with a lengthy diatribe about this bathroom and then ended by saying that "in 8 years no one has ever complained."
Well our guests mentioned it right off the bat to us! Apparently every guest thoroughly enjoys the curtain and the 3/4 wall since they have never said otherwise.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

PS This is an approved and inspected by the B&B assoc in this state. All the reviews rave about it. Email me off line if you want to know where it is.

 

[Morticia]

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'
I wonder what the occ rate is in that room? And did it go down, become the last room booked, etc, since that review came out?
And, please, it's not a bath 'room' if there are not complete walls and a door. It's an alcove.

 

[Morticia]

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below. We HOPE it doesn't bother anyone, no one has ever said anything about it. Until today. Guest called to book and wanted to know if we'd fixed the problem with the water pipe? It's worse in the winter when it's very dry, less noticeable in the summer when everything is 'damp' and wood is 'swollen' so the rattle abates somewhat.
So, all this time we were hoping only WE heard the noise because no one ever mentioned it. Wrong.

 

[gillumhouse]

After I had "finished" the deconstruction project I looked at the renovated "old" bathroom and realized it could conceivably been made into 2 bathrooms since it is a large room - punch a hole on one guestroom wall for access and the other would be a down the hall "plague" room. there would have been sink, toilet, and small shower. then I thought about it again (beyond the it is too late now) and am glad I did not do that. I like the guests commenting that it is a large bathroom.
And (God forbid) if someone wants to sell this place as a residence, it will be vialble since it still has closets and not so many bathrooms to be ridiculous. My storage room still has a window and a heater w/thermostat so after the shelving is removed, there is still a small kid's room or a playroom, nursery, or computer room/office.

 

[swirt]

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'
I wonder what the occ rate is in that room? And did it go down, become the last room booked, etc, since that review came out?
And, please, it's not a bath 'room' if there are not complete walls and a door. It's an alcove..

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'

That is a great bit of advice! Put that in your book

 

[Country Girl]

This leads to an interesting question. If your guests love you and love ALMOST everything about your B&B they would probably be reluctant to write about something they didn't like. Have any of you ever sent anonymous questionnaires to your guests polling them about what they liked and didn't like about staying with you? If so, did you get a good response? We've asked other innkeepers to stay with us and give us "points for improvement" which helped but I really think hearing anonymously from guests would be a huge help.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

CG it could be apples and oranges tho. I guess the questionaire would need to be taken with a grain of salt. One guest loves innkeeper interaction, another abhors it.
Good advice but I am not brave enough to do that, I wouldn't, it would give me a gut ache! It does just thinking about it.

 

[Copperhead]

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'
I wonder what the occ rate is in that room? And did it go down, become the last room booked, etc, since that review came out?
And, please, it's not a bath 'room' if there are not complete walls and a door. It's an alcove..

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'

This is a good point and one that was mentioned today in B&B.coms Webinar regarding reviews. Your second reason (not mentioned today) is one of the BEST reasons not to 'point it out'.

 

[Morticia]

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'
I wonder what the occ rate is in that room? And did it go down, become the last room booked, etc, since that review came out?
And, please, it's not a bath 'room' if there are not complete walls and a door. It's an alcove..

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'

This is a good point and one that was mentioned today in B&B.coms Webinar regarding reviews. Your second reason (not mentioned today) is one of the BEST reasons not to 'point it out'.
.

How was the webinar? Any useful info to impart to us?

 

[Copperhead]

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'
I wonder what the occ rate is in that room? And did it go down, become the last room booked, etc, since that review came out?
And, please, it's not a bath 'room' if there are not complete walls and a door. It's an alcove..

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'

This is a good point and one that was mentioned today in B&B.coms Webinar regarding reviews. Your second reason (not mentioned today) is one of the BEST reasons not to 'point it out'.
.

How was the webinar? Any useful info to impart to us?
.

I think for the most part we have covered much of the topic - Reviews! One thing said that I was unaware of was that if a bad review is posted, they will work with the innkeeper to write a response that will somehow smooth over the review. She stated that the best thing to do was not jump right in and respond when your emotions are high. Take a few days to chew (my words) on the review so you can begin to pull the knife out of your chest and look at it differently. Always thank the reviewer (for anything positive that was said prior to working through the issue.
One other mention was the fact that we should routenily do searches for our B&B to find out what is being said about us on blogs, tweeter, myspace etc. ( I do this but most likely do not go deep enough in the searches, looking only on sites I know most potential guests are likely to see.
She stated that B&B.com would be sending out a summary of the webinar (or maybe it will be posted on their innkeeper pages) so keep a watch out for this.

 

[Morticia]

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'
I wonder what the occ rate is in that room? And did it go down, become the last room booked, etc, since that review came out?
And, please, it's not a bath 'room' if there are not complete walls and a door. It's an alcove..

Never, never say in public in response to a guest comment, 'Well, no one else ever complained about it.' It insults the reviewer whose opinion is important and it allows other guests with the same opinion to say, 'Oh yeah? Well, here's another one.'

This is a good point and one that was mentioned today in B&B.coms Webinar regarding reviews. Your second reason (not mentioned today) is one of the BEST reasons not to 'point it out'.
.

How was the webinar? Any useful info to impart to us?
.

I think for the most part we have covered much of the topic - Reviews! One thing said that I was unaware of was that if a bad review is posted, they will work with the innkeeper to write a response that will somehow smooth over the review. She stated that the best thing to do was not jump right in and respond when your emotions are high. Take a few days to chew (my words) on the review so you can begin to pull the knife out of your chest and look at it differently. Always thank the reviewer (for anything positive that was said prior to working through the issue.
One other mention was the fact that we should routenily do searches for our B&B to find out what is being said about us on blogs, tweeter, myspace etc. ( I do this but most likely do not go deep enough in the searches, looking only on sites I know most potential guests are likely to see.
She stated that B&B.com would be sending out a summary of the webinar (or maybe it will be posted on their innkeeper pages) so keep a watch out for this.
.

When I wrote the mgmt response for my bad review I emailed it to a bunch of this crowd here and they all helped me make it sound MUCH better. That helped me calm down quite a bit. And I avoided even mentioning the the awful personal things the writer said and stuck to the fact-based part of the review.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

The worst thing, imo, the absolute worst is to write a huge diatribe. Going point by point is what we want to do, to always correct errors is what we want to do, but we could set ourselves up for more discontent. I have seen, like in that instance, a GREAT SHORT REVIEW of 2-3 sentences with one of them mentioning lack of privacy in the bathroom and then like that review a giant response.
When I have seen a negative review with a small owner reply of thank you for letting us know and we apologise etc in two short lines, I RESPECT that innkeeper and know they would rectify the situation.

 

[swirt]

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below. We HOPE it doesn't bother anyone, no one has ever said anything about it. Until today. Guest called to book and wanted to know if we'd fixed the problem with the water pipe? It's worse in the winter when it's very dry, less noticeable in the summer when everything is 'damp' and wood is 'swollen' so the rattle abates somewhat.
So, all this time we were hoping only WE heard the noise because no one ever mentioned it. Wrong..

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below.

Is the rattle from "water hammer" where it rattles when someone shuts off the water or is it from heat expansion where it rattles as the pipe heats or contracts when hot or cold water are going through it? Water hammer would sound like a thud, while heat expansion would sound like tick...tick...tick
Water hammer you could fix by putting an arrestor under the sink that is inline with that particular line. They don't take up much room and are a pretty easy install. If it is thermal movement you may be able to try a relatively unobtrusive fix. It may not work, but if it did you could save yourself tearing into carpet or ceiling.
Get a can or expanding foam (GreatStuff) you want the kind with maximum expansion. It comes with a small plastic tube. Get a drill bit to match the size of the tube. You could drill down from above or through the ceiling (I'd go with whichever I thought the pipe was closest to...you may not be able to tell. Put blue or green painters tape on the spot before you drill. The expanding foam is very sticky and darn near permanent if you get it on anything, so the tape will keep it from getting on the ceiling or the carpet. If you go through the carpet, try to part the fibers before you put the tape on. Drill the hole, then insert the tube from the expanding foam and put a bunch into the cavity. It will expand and very likely secure the pipe as it does. Wait at least 8 hrs before removing the tape. If your carpet has a bit of knap to it at all, it will hide the hole. The ceiling may require just a dab of paint to hide it if you go in that way.

 

[Morticia]

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below. We HOPE it doesn't bother anyone, no one has ever said anything about it. Until today. Guest called to book and wanted to know if we'd fixed the problem with the water pipe? It's worse in the winter when it's very dry, less noticeable in the summer when everything is 'damp' and wood is 'swollen' so the rattle abates somewhat.
So, all this time we were hoping only WE heard the noise because no one ever mentioned it. Wrong..

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below.

Is the rattle from "water hammer" where it rattles when someone shuts off the water or is it from heat expansion where it rattles as the pipe heats or contracts when hot or cold water are going through it? Water hammer would sound like a thud, while heat expansion would sound like tick...tick...tick
Water hammer you could fix by putting an arrestor under the sink that is inline with that particular line. They don't take up much room and are a pretty easy install. If it is thermal movement you may be able to try a relatively unobtrusive fix. It may not work, but if it did you could save yourself tearing into carpet or ceiling.
Get a can or expanding foam (GreatStuff) you want the kind with maximum expansion. It comes with a small plastic tube. Get a drill bit to match the size of the tube. You could drill down from above or through the ceiling (I'd go with whichever I thought the pipe was closest to...you may not be able to tell. Put blue or green painters tape on the spot before you drill. The expanding foam is very sticky and darn near permanent if you get it on anything, so the tape will keep it from getting on the ceiling or the carpet. If you go through the carpet, try to part the fibers before you put the tape on. Drill the hole, then insert the tube from the expanding foam and put a bunch into the cavity. It will expand and very likely secure the pipe as it does. Wait at least 8 hrs before removing the tape. If your carpet has a bit of knap to it at all, it will hide the hole. The ceiling may require just a dab of paint to hide it if you go in that way.
.

Tick, tick, tick once the hot water hits. Once the pipe is warmed up the noise stops immediately but it's annoying for about 20 seconds, apparently enough time to wake someone up.
My thought was to do exactly what you said, only in a much larger way. I want to insulate the whole floor area as I want to pull up the carpet but don't want the guest noise to keep ME awake at night when we put in the wood floors. So, next year when we do our floors, we'll have the carpet out and can do the kind of insulating you mention. But, maybe we can try to hit those 2 spots where the noise seems to originate this year.

 

[swirt]

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below. We HOPE it doesn't bother anyone, no one has ever said anything about it. Until today. Guest called to book and wanted to know if we'd fixed the problem with the water pipe? It's worse in the winter when it's very dry, less noticeable in the summer when everything is 'damp' and wood is 'swollen' so the rattle abates somewhat.
So, all this time we were hoping only WE heard the noise because no one ever mentioned it. Wrong..

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below.

Is the rattle from "water hammer" where it rattles when someone shuts off the water or is it from heat expansion where it rattles as the pipe heats or contracts when hot or cold water are going through it? Water hammer would sound like a thud, while heat expansion would sound like tick...tick...tick
Water hammer you could fix by putting an arrestor under the sink that is inline with that particular line. They don't take up much room and are a pretty easy install. If it is thermal movement you may be able to try a relatively unobtrusive fix. It may not work, but if it did you could save yourself tearing into carpet or ceiling.
Get a can or expanding foam (GreatStuff) you want the kind with maximum expansion. It comes with a small plastic tube. Get a drill bit to match the size of the tube. You could drill down from above or through the ceiling (I'd go with whichever I thought the pipe was closest to...you may not be able to tell. Put blue or green painters tape on the spot before you drill. The expanding foam is very sticky and darn near permanent if you get it on anything, so the tape will keep it from getting on the ceiling or the carpet. If you go through the carpet, try to part the fibers before you put the tape on. Drill the hole, then insert the tube from the expanding foam and put a bunch into the cavity. It will expand and very likely secure the pipe as it does. Wait at least 8 hrs before removing the tape. If your carpet has a bit of knap to it at all, it will hide the hole. The ceiling may require just a dab of paint to hide it if you go in that way.
.

Tick, tick, tick once the hot water hits. Once the pipe is warmed up the noise stops immediately but it's annoying for about 20 seconds, apparently enough time to wake someone up.
My thought was to do exactly what you said, only in a much larger way. I want to insulate the whole floor area as I want to pull up the carpet but don't want the guest noise to keep ME awake at night when we put in the wood floors. So, next year when we do our floors, we'll have the carpet out and can do the kind of insulating you mention. But, maybe we can try to hit those 2 spots where the noise seems to originate this year.
.

Tick, tick, tick once the hot water hits. Once the pipe is warmed up the noise stops immediately but it's annoying for about 20 seconds, apparently enough time to wake someone up.
My thought was to do exactly what you said, only in a much larger way. I want to insulate the whole floor area as I want to pull up the carpet but don't want the guest noise to keep ME awake at night when we put in the wood floors. So, next year when we do our floors, we'll have the carpet out and can do the kind of insulating you mention. But, maybe we can try to hit those 2 spots where the noise seems to originate this year.

It could be the drain or the incoming line. If you run the hot water until the ticking stops, then run the cold water (to cool the drain) then run the hot water again. If the ticking starts again, it is the drain. If it doesn't, then it is the incoming line. To really get rid of it, you want the pipe to freely slide. The ticking is usually as it rubs where it passes through the floor joist. They make plastic clips/grommets that solve the problem so if you tear up the floor, that would be the better choice. Like I said, the expanding foam may solve it without too much trouble and if it doesn't then you haven't wasted much time or money.

 

[Morticia]

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below. We HOPE it doesn't bother anyone, no one has ever said anything about it. Until today. Guest called to book and wanted to know if we'd fixed the problem with the water pipe? It's worse in the winter when it's very dry, less noticeable in the summer when everything is 'damp' and wood is 'swollen' so the rattle abates somewhat.
So, all this time we were hoping only WE heard the noise because no one ever mentioned it. Wrong..

We know we have a rattle in one of the hot water pipes. We've tried to fix it but it requires ripping up carpet to get it from above or tearing down ceiling to get it from below.

Is the rattle from "water hammer" where it rattles when someone shuts off the water or is it from heat expansion where it rattles as the pipe heats or contracts when hot or cold water are going through it? Water hammer would sound like a thud, while heat expansion would sound like tick...tick...tick
Water hammer you could fix by putting an arrestor under the sink that is inline with that particular line. They don't take up much room and are a pretty easy install. If it is thermal movement you may be able to try a relatively unobtrusive fix. It may not work, but if it did you could save yourself tearing into carpet or ceiling.
Get a can or expanding foam (GreatStuff) you want the kind with maximum expansion. It comes with a small plastic tube. Get a drill bit to match the size of the tube. You could drill down from above or through the ceiling (I'd go with whichever I thought the pipe was closest to...you may not be able to tell. Put blue or green painters tape on the spot before you drill. The expanding foam is very sticky and darn near permanent if you get it on anything, so the tape will keep it from getting on the ceiling or the carpet. If you go through the carpet, try to part the fibers before you put the tape on. Drill the hole, then insert the tube from the expanding foam and put a bunch into the cavity. It will expand and very likely secure the pipe as it does. Wait at least 8 hrs before removing the tape. If your carpet has a bit of knap to it at all, it will hide the hole. The ceiling may require just a dab of paint to hide it if you go in that way.
.

Tick, tick, tick once the hot water hits. Once the pipe is warmed up the noise stops immediately but it's annoying for about 20 seconds, apparently enough time to wake someone up.
My thought was to do exactly what you said, only in a much larger way. I want to insulate the whole floor area as I want to pull up the carpet but don't want the guest noise to keep ME awake at night when we put in the wood floors. So, next year when we do our floors, we'll have the carpet out and can do the kind of insulating you mention. But, maybe we can try to hit those 2 spots where the noise seems to originate this year.
.

Tick, tick, tick once the hot water hits. Once the pipe is warmed up the noise stops immediately but it's annoying for about 20 seconds, apparently enough time to wake someone up.
My thought was to do exactly what you said, only in a much larger way. I want to insulate the whole floor area as I want to pull up the carpet but don't want the guest noise to keep ME awake at night when we put in the wood floors. So, next year when we do our floors, we'll have the carpet out and can do the kind of insulating you mention. But, maybe we can try to hit those 2 spots where the noise seems to originate this year.

It could be the drain or the incoming line. If you run the hot water until the ticking stops, then run the cold water (to cool the drain) then run the hot water again. If the ticking starts again, it is the drain. If it doesn't, then it is the incoming line. To really get rid of it, you want the pipe to freely slide. The ticking is usually as it rubs where it passes through the floor joist. They make plastic clips/grommets that solve the problem so if you tear up the floor, that would be the better choice. Like I said, the expanding foam may solve it without too much trouble and if it doesn't then you haven't wasted much time or money.
.

I think we're pulling up the carpet and going at it from that side. Hubs figures that while the carpet is up it's no more difficult to cut a big hole in the floor and either make the hole the pipe goes thru bigger or to affix the pipe so it can't move at all. Oh joy. Just what I want- a ginormous hole in my bedroom floor. Of course if ONE hole is larger, my guess is that the pipe will then rub on the next smaller hole it goes thru.
We hadn't done the hot water-cold water-hot water test. It takes so dang long for the hot water to reach the point where the ticking starts and once the water is hot enough, the cold water pipes are close enough that THAT water is now warm, if not hot itself.
I think the water is the one thing that was not done the best in this house.

 

[PoppaSmurf]

The worst thing, imo, the absolute worst is to write a huge diatribe. Going point by point is what we want to do, to always correct errors is what we want to do, but we could set ourselves up for more discontent. I have seen, like in that instance, a GREAT SHORT REVIEW of 2-3 sentences with one of them mentioning lack of privacy in the bathroom and then like that review a giant response.
When I have seen a negative review with a small owner reply of thank you for letting us know and we apologise etc in two short lines, I RESPECT that innkeeper and know they would rectify the situation..

Does anyone have a Suggestion Box in the common area? We don't (yet), but having one would allow a guest to point out any issues without face-2-face interaction that a lot of people might find uncomfortable.

 

[Morticia]

The worst thing, imo, the absolute worst is to write a huge diatribe. Going point by point is what we want to do, to always correct errors is what we want to do, but we could set ourselves up for more discontent. I have seen, like in that instance, a GREAT SHORT REVIEW of 2-3 sentences with one of them mentioning lack of privacy in the bathroom and then like that review a giant response.
When I have seen a negative review with a small owner reply of thank you for letting us know and we apologise etc in two short lines, I RESPECT that innkeeper and know they would rectify the situation..

Does anyone have a Suggestion Box in the common area? We don't (yet), but having one would allow a guest to point out any issues without face-2-face interaction that a lot of people might find uncomfortable.
.

Other than a suggestion box, how about comment cards in the guest rooms? Altho, if the guest doesn't want to be known as the one that complained, that wouldn't work. I guess either way, leaving the card in the room or being seen to poke it into the box, might make someone hesitate to comment.
Also, if there are no other guests in the house, they'll know you know who it was.
We've had 'helpful' comments left in the guest books in the room, which I have not removed. I've wanted other guests to realize that we will take the comments seriously, as the problems mentioned in that book have been fixed in that room.

 

[Copperhead]

The worst thing, imo, the absolute worst is to write a huge diatribe. Going point by point is what we want to do, to always correct errors is what we want to do, but we could set ourselves up for more discontent. I have seen, like in that instance, a GREAT SHORT REVIEW of 2-3 sentences with one of them mentioning lack of privacy in the bathroom and then like that review a giant response.
When I have seen a negative review with a small owner reply of thank you for letting us know and we apologise etc in two short lines, I RESPECT that innkeeper and know they would rectify the situation..

Does anyone have a Suggestion Box in the common area? We don't (yet), but having one would allow a guest to point out any issues without face-2-face interaction that a lot of people might find uncomfortable.
.

Does anyone have a Suggestion Box in the common area? We don't (yet), but having one would allow a guest to point out any issues without face-2-face interaction that a lot of people might find uncomfortable.

I haven't done this but am willing to provide any method of feedback to hopefully avoid having negative feedback blasted to the world in a review. I have been looking at having comment cards made with our address printed on one side, having the option to place it directly in a comment box would be just another means of providing the guest every way to express their feelings about their stay - good, bad or indifferent as well as any 'need to attend to' items. They have the option of leaving the card in the room, placing it in the box or mailing it from home or somewhere along the way....