Heating bill (gripe thread)

[Innkeeper To Go]

We have just changed out our 3 large central units that handled the whole house to help with these issues. FYI we are all electric here. After talking with several AC/Heat specialists, we did the following:
Common area on Main floor - Common rooms, kitchen and family guest room - a energy star central unit.
Second floor - all guest rooms - new individual split system units sized to control each room size comfortably - off when not in use, timer if guests out most of day to reset to cool/heat prior to return (if they are in and out, unit is kept on)
Private family area - energy star central unit
Savings - October reduced kWh use by 1500 over same time last year, room nights rented within 2-3 (note our Oct. temps are usually mild, low heat only at night)
Nov - reduced kWh use by 2300 over same time last year and 20 MORE room nights!!!
Dec. bill is due soon so we shall see if the trend continues..

THAT is an amazing amount of savings! Good for you. At MY electricity rates, you just saved over $600 in 2 months! We're thinking of going to on demand hot water as that will probably save us quite a bit. But, I need to do a comparison first.
Right now I am essentially heating and reheating 80 gals of water every couple of hours for no reason. That goes on well into spring.
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We're thinking of going to on demand hot water as that will probably save us quite a bit. But, I need to do a comparison first.
Right now I am essentially heating and reheating 80 gals of water every couple of hours for no reason. That goes on well into spring.

On-demand hot water is definitely a big energy saver. The downsides are the installation costs which are quite high, due to the need for 1" copper pipes (instead of the more common 3/4" pipes) and the logistical need to place the water heater fairly close to the bathroom. Sharing an on-demand heater with more than 1 room works but generally requires some adjustments to make it work well.
Still, after the initial outlay, the immediate monthly savings are pretty impressive.
I've had them installed at a few places and have been pleased each time, although it took a few years to recover the upfront expenses.
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We would be sharing the hot water among all the rooms, the laundry and the kitchen. We would probably have a separate unit for ourselves. Definitely needs to be properly sized!
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Be sure to do some research. What we've seen with a brand new B&B here who did a total gutting and re-do is that the on-demand system is NOT good for a B&B situation. You have to wait MANY minutes (we're talking 5-10 full minutes) to get hot water. Guests are not at all happy.
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Any room that is not near the hot water tank is already waiting. As an example, I can brush my teeth, take my meds (which is kind of involved) and sort laundry while I'm waiting for the hot water to reach my shower. At this time of year, when the building is basically cold, that 'hot' water lasts not as long as my shower. It gets progressively less hot the longer I'm there.
We will definitely do the research. Last thing I want to do is get this all set up only to find out it doesn't work!
The other option is solar pre-heating of the water. We have a nice chunk of south-facing roof that is unshaded year round. Gomez just took a certification class to do the installations so we'll have an in-house service tech! For that, we can get grant money.
That also requires some 'backup' work as the power goes out here frequently and if the system is fully heated there needs to be an 'outlet' for the excess heat and that is generally powered electrically.
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Doing lots of research really is the key.
It's not just the issue of the size of the on-demand. It's the distance.
If it's going to be moving the hot water more than a room or so away, you might find it best to also get small pumps and 2-gallon hot water heaters along the route.
The little 2-gallon heaters bring hot water fast while the pump moves the water from the on-demand system more quickly than the venting alone can do. By the time the 2-gallon is empty, hot water's there from the on-demand. No delay at all.
This particular workaround works really well as long as you can find a good quiet (read: insulated) spot for the pumps, which make some noise.
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Rats. We have no space 'along the way'. Those pumps would have to be IN guest rooms. That's ok, solar preheat may be the way to go.
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Solar preheat is pretty nice, especially since you have that southern exposure.

 

[Innkeeper To Go]

When I was doing the bathroom reno I was talking to an insurance man in town saying I was thinking of getting an on-demand hot water for the guest batrooms. He told me he had one and invited me to turn on the hot water in the office bathrrom. It was a tad warmer than tepid and he told me that was as hot as it gets. They may have done some inprovements since 2006 but that was NOT hot enough for anyone who wanted a HOT shower.
IF I had been able to d owhat I wanted in MY bathroom, I would have been able to ruen the water heater around to light it from the bathroom instead of the kitchen and would have been able to install a second water heater. I think I have a 50 gal and since it is gas, it is pretty good at keeping up with demand - as long as DH does not try to do dishes when it is guest shower time..

When I was doing the bathroom reno I was talking to an insurance man in town saying I was thinking of getting an on-demand hot water for the guest batrooms. He told me he had one and invited me to turn on the hot water in the office bathrrom. It was a tad warmer than tepid and he told me that was as hot as it gets. They may have done some inprovements since 2006 but that was NOT hot enough for anyone who wanted a HOT shower.

They actually get really hot. Most do have a top setting that is lower than the old-fashioned water heaters, but at 140 degrees it's still plenty hot enough. In fact, I've never had an on-demand that I kept at the top setting.
They've been using on-demand in Europe forever but they're used to their quirks, ie, they don't usually count on one hot water heater for the house the way we Americans do. And that's often the problem. When folks try to just replace one big hot water heater for one on-demand heater, they often have problems because they are just not designed to work all the way across the house that way.
They always require a little bit of planning to develop a workaround, IMHO. Or to install more than one on-demand heater.

 

[Skamokawa]

We installed The Takagi TK-2 in 2001 for one half of the house, then another in 2005 for the other half ( l o n g ) remodel process. Showers are nice and hot. It does take over a minute for the hot water to reach the upstairs rooms. Still, with the incredible savings of $ (and space) we would not go back.

 

[Don Draper]

Our behemoth is as "un-green" as can be...oil stoker with FOUR hot water heaters! It's not getting redone any time soon either. But we never run out of hot water, and it gets HOT.

 

[Morticia]

When I was doing the bathroom reno I was talking to an insurance man in town saying I was thinking of getting an on-demand hot water for the guest batrooms. He told me he had one and invited me to turn on the hot water in the office bathrrom. It was a tad warmer than tepid and he told me that was as hot as it gets. They may have done some inprovements since 2006 but that was NOT hot enough for anyone who wanted a HOT shower.
IF I had been able to d owhat I wanted in MY bathroom, I would have been able to ruen the water heater around to light it from the bathroom instead of the kitchen and would have been able to install a second water heater. I think I have a 50 gal and since it is gas, it is pretty good at keeping up with demand - as long as DH does not try to do dishes when it is guest shower time..

Tipsy has them in her place and the water is hot. For the whole shower. Not half a shower like I get here. Not that the guests get half a hot shower, I do because my bathroom is the farthest from the hot water supply. The water also has to traverse an entire length of unheated building to get to me.

 

[Morticia]

We installed The Takagi TK-2 in 2001 for one half of the house, then another in 2005 for the other half ( l o n g ) remodel process. Showers are nice and hot. It does take over a minute for the hot water to reach the upstairs rooms. Still, with the incredible savings of $ (and space) we would not go back..

How many rooms run off each?

 

[Skamokawa]

Two guest rooms, the kitchen and the downstairs half bath run from one of them, our own room, our private guests rooom, my husband's office and our laundry room run off the other. We've not had a conflict with running the washer and a shower at the same time. I'm done with the heavy usage of the kitchen sink before the guests are up to shower, so don't know if there would even be a conflict there.
We will add another of the heaters to a guest cottage yet to be finished.