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Penelope

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Is it my imagination or is BBOnline falling by the wayside in the industry? I have been keeping up with the Inns for Sale page consistently for the past 18 months and I am noticing more and more are NOT being listed on their site. Where are they listed?
 

JunieBJones (JBJ)

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Question P:
Since you keep your eyes on it, what fads HAD you noticed prior to this? Larger inns, smaller inns? I can never seem to put any sort of flow chart to it. Obv those in resort areas seem to hit the list more, more of them, so more of them will sell. Does it seem like there are more "this could be turned into an inn" listing lately?
 

Penelope

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Yes, Maine always has a TON of B&Bs for sale. I know that it just seems that way, though. There ARE a ton of B&Bs in Maine, so somewhere there are one, two, or 10 for sale!
I have just noticed a significant drop in their listings. 6 months ago, you could go on there and see 3-5 new per day. Maybe you're right...it could be the colder weather. It just caught my attention.
 

Morticia

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JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
I would never list an inn over colder months, could it be that?
Also, maybe half of the innkeeper partnership has lost a job or retirement and is sticking with this job?
Sheesh it looks like Maine is for sale if you do the "last 30 days" view.
Maine is always for sale in the winter! It's also for sale in the summer...usually the realtors signs (for homes) go up Memorial Day and come down on Labor Day. If you get lucky and a tourist buys your house, ok. If not, you stay another year.
Personally, I have no idea how you could sell a B&B in Maine in the summer. You'd never have a day where you could show the whole house. And MY side of the inn is a total disaster in the summer. Seriously.
 

JunieBJones (JBJ)

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I would never list an inn over colder months, could it be that?
Also, maybe half of the innkeeper partnership has lost a job or retirement and is sticking with this job?
Sheesh it looks like Maine is for sale if you do the "last 30 days" view.
PS I went to BandB.com's listing inns for sale and the same ones the same dozen or so are still for sale in my state. A new one here or there or re-advertised, but the same same.
 

JunieBJones (JBJ)

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's.
 

Penelope

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Question P:
Since you keep your eyes on it, what fads HAD you noticed prior to this? Larger inns, smaller inns? I can never seem to put any sort of flow chart to it. Obv those in resort areas seem to hit the list more, more of them, so more of them will sell. Does it seem like there are more "this could be turned into an inn" listing lately?.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Does it seem like there are more "this could be turned into an inn" listing lately?
Yes, absolutely...get it sold no matter how. I think people are looking at other (read: any) options there are to sell their house. I noticed that prices are going down. I noticed that there are a lot of inns that the owners aren't ready to sell, but maybe put up their listing anyway because it is a mental thing: "I am not really ready to sell, but in this economy/market/time of year, it is going to take some time anyway. By the time it sells, I'll be ready." sort of thing.
This has happened to me a few times: the financials "weren't quite ready yet. Could I get back in touch with them in a few weeks?"
Ah, oookkkaaayyy... Are you wanting to sell your inn or not??!!
 

Penelope

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
 

JunieBJones (JBJ)

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
.
penelope said:
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
Hard decision. Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
 

Morticia

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's.
We looked mostly in the winter. We started looking in the fall and bought in the fall. But most of what we looked at was in the winter. We didn't see much during the summer. Most of the places were off the market again.
 

Morticia

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's.
We looked at one place where the owners had a huge photo album of the inn in all seasons. It was an excellent selling point. They said they would leave the book for the new owners (as well as the digital images).
 

GeorgiaGirl

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Yes, Maine always has a TON of B&Bs for sale. I know that it just seems that way, though. There ARE a ton of B&Bs in Maine, so somewhere there are one, two, or 10 for sale!
I have just noticed a significant drop in their listings. 6 months ago, you could go on there and see 3-5 new per day. Maybe you're right...it could be the colder weather. It just caught my attention..
I've noticed this Inn for sale for a little while in Maine, there's something about it that really attracts me....although I'm not sure if I could live in Belfast

http://www.bbonline.com/forsale/harborview/?type=state&refstate=me
 

swirt

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I think a lot of it may just be tied to the market and economy. It is quite likely that innkeepers are not axious to list their B&B for sale at a time when the housing market is in the crapper. The uncerrtainty of the job market may also be encouraging innkeepers to keep doing what they are doing rather than selling the inn and starting something else. In uncertain times, innkeepers may be more likely to stand pat.
 

EmptyNest

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The only inns that show up when you click the inns for sale link are those that have been listed WITHIN the PAST 30 days. All the others are still there under each state category. They cannot show everything for sale on that beginning page. I think someone had been lax in the past not removing the 30 day + ones out of there and they finally caught it.
If there aren't more showing its because no one it listing right now with them
 

EmptyNest

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I would never list an inn over colder months, could it be that?
Also, maybe half of the innkeeper partnership has lost a job or retirement and is sticking with this job?
Sheesh it looks like Maine is for sale if you do the "last 30 days" view.
PS I went to BandB.com's listing inns for sale and the same ones the same dozen or so are still for sale in my state. A new one here or there or re-advertised, but the same same..
Thats because they are still for sale:)
 

Penelope

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
.
penelope said:
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
Hard decision. Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
All very good points.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
Good for you. My issue was being told that the financials weren't ready even though the inn was on the market. That's a bugger. I wanted to know more about it, but the owners who had it on the market were dragging their feet. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to see what they could produce under pressure. It seemed to me that there might be something unscrupulous put together. I would much rather deal with someone who is READY on paper and in their hearts.
That is probably the most important part: being ready in your heart. When the heart isn't in serving, it's hard to fake.
Sorry, I rambled...

 

EmptyNest

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
.
penelope said:
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
Hard decision. Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
All very good points.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
Good for you. My issue was being told that the financials weren't ready even though the inn was on the market. That's a bugger. I wanted to know more about it, but the owners who had it on the market were dragging their feet. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to see what they could produce under pressure. It seemed to me that there might be something unscrupulous put together. I would much rather deal with someone who is READY on paper and in their hearts.
That is probably the most important part: being ready in your heart. When the heart isn't in serving, it's hard to fake.
Sorry, I rambled...

.
NO owner is going to show your their books UNLESS they know you are TRUELY serious about a purchase. the "casual" inquiry about wanting to see the inn that is for sale is not going to be privy to their information and some will never get the truth as we have heard from others here.
 

Morticia

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
.
penelope said:
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
Hard decision. Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
All very good points.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
Good for you. My issue was being told that the financials weren't ready even though the inn was on the market. That's a bugger. I wanted to know more about it, but the owners who had it on the market were dragging their feet. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to see what they could produce under pressure. It seemed to me that there might be something unscrupulous put together. I would much rather deal with someone who is READY on paper and in their hearts.
That is probably the most important part: being ready in your heart. When the heart isn't in serving, it's hard to fake.
Sorry, I rambled...

.
penelope said:
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
All very good points.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
Good for you. My issue was being told that the financials weren't ready even though the inn was on the market. That's a bugger. I wanted to know more about it, but the owners who had it on the market were dragging their feet. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to see what they could produce under pressure. It seemed to me that there might be something unscrupulous put together. I would much rather deal with someone who is READY on paper and in their hearts.
That is probably the most important part: being ready in your heart. When the heart isn't in serving, it's hard to fake.
Sorry, I rambled...
Did you speak directly to the owners, or to a broker? We went thru this twice, once because the broker saw us as 'easy money' and took us to see the place even tho the owners were leaving for the winter and were NOT prepared to sell. The broker kept saying she would get the info for us in a week. The owners (apparently) were telling her they would get us the info when they returned from vacation in April (this was November!) She called relentlessly to get us to make an offer, get us to let her put her realtors sign in OUR yard to sell our house, to show us more properties (none of which were operating B&B's but were 'good prospects'*. I finally had to tell her that if she called once more without having the info in hand that we wanted I would have to turn her in to the realtor's board. In April she called back with the financials. It was a beautiful property but it made no money at all.
The other place we looked at with 'issues' producing the financials was one that another realtor had assesses and convinced the owners he could get them $x. We offered $x-$200,000 based on what we knew of the area. Those folks refused to let us see the financials until we gave them a full price offer. When we insisted, they mailed us 20 pages of single-spaced checkbook printout and told us to figure it out for ourselves.
* good prospects were houses in neighborhoods that had no parking at all but had 5-6 bedrooms with 2 bathrooms. No amount of explaining would get it thru her head that those locations don't work.
Needless to say, we walked away from both of those places.
 

Barliman

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
.
penelope said:
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
Hard decision. Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
All very good points.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
Good for you. My issue was being told that the financials weren't ready even though the inn was on the market. That's a bugger. I wanted to know more about it, but the owners who had it on the market were dragging their feet. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to see what they could produce under pressure. It seemed to me that there might be something unscrupulous put together. I would much rather deal with someone who is READY on paper and in their hearts.
That is probably the most important part: being ready in your heart. When the heart isn't in serving, it's hard to fake.
Sorry, I rambled...

.
penelope said:
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
All very good points.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
Good for you. My issue was being told that the financials weren't ready even though the inn was on the market. That's a bugger. I wanted to know more about it, but the owners who had it on the market were dragging their feet. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to see what they could produce under pressure. It seemed to me that there might be something unscrupulous put together. I would much rather deal with someone who is READY on paper and in their hearts.
That is probably the most important part: being ready in your heart. When the heart isn't in serving, it's hard to fake.
Sorry, I rambled...
Did you speak directly to the owners, or to a broker? We went thru this twice, once because the broker saw us as 'easy money' and took us to see the place even tho the owners were leaving for the winter and were NOT prepared to sell. The broker kept saying she would get the info for us in a week. The owners (apparently) were telling her they would get us the info when they returned from vacation in April (this was November!) She called relentlessly to get us to make an offer, get us to let her put her realtors sign in OUR yard to sell our house, to show us more properties (none of which were operating B&B's but were 'good prospects'*. I finally had to tell her that if she called once more without having the info in hand that we wanted I would have to turn her in to the realtor's board. In April she called back with the financials. It was a beautiful property but it made no money at all.
The other place we looked at with 'issues' producing the financials was one that another realtor had assesses and convinced the owners he could get them $x. We offered $x-$200,000 based on what we knew of the area. Those folks refused to let us see the financials until we gave them a full price offer. When we insisted, they mailed us 20 pages of single-spaced checkbook printout and told us to figure it out for ourselves.
* good prospects were houses in neighborhoods that had no parking at all but had 5-6 bedrooms with 2 bathrooms. No amount of explaining would get it thru her head that those locations don't work.
Needless to say, we walked away from both of those places.
.
Obviously, no one would buy an existing INN without good financials. This is a great argument for an up-to-date dynamic business plan backed up with financials. I know, easy to say....hard to find the time to produce. But, if you reconcile your check book, it isn't that much of a leap to keep financials up to date. And up-to-date financials will show you if your BP needs changing. Just my 2 cents.
 

Morticia

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No time to sell in summer, I agree, but when the gardens look best and the weather is delightful. I would never consider selling here in winter - ugleeee. People travel in summer, more lookers, more people feeling their oats and enjoying other places. Homes never sell well from Thanksgiving til like March or April. Not sure about B&B's..
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
.
penelope said:
Bree and I talked about that in Maine as well...put the inn on the market when there are a bizillion people coming in and going around. Maybe it'll sell, maybe not. If so, great. If not, better luck next time!
Hard decision. Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
All very good points.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
Good for you. My issue was being told that the financials weren't ready even though the inn was on the market. That's a bugger. I wanted to know more about it, but the owners who had it on the market were dragging their feet. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to see what they could produce under pressure. It seemed to me that there might be something unscrupulous put together. I would much rather deal with someone who is READY on paper and in their hearts.
That is probably the most important part: being ready in your heart. When the heart isn't in serving, it's hard to fake.
Sorry, I rambled...

.
penelope said:
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
Guests mention they dream of running an inn, if they love your place - maybe mention to them it is for sale? But then you have them wanting info and wanting to see things that are not ready to be seen (Owners quarters).
On the other hand - when the house is full you have to stay on top of everything, lawns, gardens, cleaning so it is a good time, no time, but a good time.
All very good points.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
When the time comes I will have a packet I will give out to anyone who might be interested. They can take it and give it to anyone else who might be interested.
Good for you. My issue was being told that the financials weren't ready even though the inn was on the market. That's a bugger. I wanted to know more about it, but the owners who had it on the market were dragging their feet. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to see what they could produce under pressure. It seemed to me that there might be something unscrupulous put together. I would much rather deal with someone who is READY on paper and in their hearts.
That is probably the most important part: being ready in your heart. When the heart isn't in serving, it's hard to fake.
Sorry, I rambled...
Did you speak directly to the owners, or to a broker? We went thru this twice, once because the broker saw us as 'easy money' and took us to see the place even tho the owners were leaving for the winter and were NOT prepared to sell. The broker kept saying she would get the info for us in a week. The owners (apparently) were telling her they would get us the info when they returned from vacation in April (this was November!) She called relentlessly to get us to make an offer, get us to let her put her realtors sign in OUR yard to sell our house, to show us more properties (none of which were operating B&B's but were 'good prospects'*. I finally had to tell her that if she called once more without having the info in hand that we wanted I would have to turn her in to the realtor's board. In April she called back with the financials. It was a beautiful property but it made no money at all.
The other place we looked at with 'issues' producing the financials was one that another realtor had assesses and convinced the owners he could get them $x. We offered $x-$200,000 based on what we knew of the area. Those folks refused to let us see the financials until we gave them a full price offer. When we insisted, they mailed us 20 pages of single-spaced checkbook printout and told us to figure it out for ourselves.
* good prospects were houses in neighborhoods that had no parking at all but had 5-6 bedrooms with 2 bathrooms. No amount of explaining would get it thru her head that those locations don't work.
Needless to say, we walked away from both of those places.
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Obviously, no one would buy an existing INN without good financials. This is a great argument for an up-to-date dynamic business plan backed up with financials. I know, easy to say....hard to find the time to produce. But, if you reconcile your check book, it isn't that much of a leap to keep financials up to date. And up-to-date financials will show you if your BP needs changing. Just my 2 cents.
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Well, our financials definitely show a change is necessary. WHAT the change should be is not shown!
When we bought this place the PO's told us they were so busy they only had time to do the financial info at the end of the year. They never did any bookkeeping 'in season'. And yet, they had the financial statements to give us. Hmmmm.
 

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