Location, Location, Location

[stephanie]

Hi everyone!
I'm an aspiring, and I have been lurking for a few weeks now. Thanks, all of you veterans, for your candor, advice and encouragement to us newbies. As I mentioned on another thread, I've read the how-to books and websites, and am infinitely grateful to have found this forum to have the resulting rose-colored glasses ripped off. DH and I are big-city corporate types hoping to find a smaller town and more fresh air. We've worked together before and love it, and stumbled across the B&B biz in our search for a start-up we could do together. We know it will be hard work every day, but hope we can both make a living between the B&B and occasional freelance gigs.
We're currently scoping out potential locations. The criteria are: within 2-hour drive of NYC (public transportation options a +), year-round attractions, 6+ rooms, 2+ acres of land for weddings and events, turn-key preferred. Our top choices so far are the Catskills, the Poconos, and Bree mentioned CT on another thread, which I'll start looking into.
Here are my location-related questions for all you experts. I've been a city-girl most of my life, so it's tough to get into the mind-set of a small town visitor. I know it's all relative, but I'd appreciate any opinions, advice, case studies, etc.:

• Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?
• Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts?
• If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?
• Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.

Thanks!!!

 

[gillumhouse]

Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time
An hour is a day trip? Whoa!! An hour is not even a commute for some cities. In the burbs of Chicago an hour on the train is a short commute (that is the Express - the local is more like 90 minutes and I am talking within 30 to 40 miles of the City). I an 2 1/2 hours from one major city, 4 to 5 depending on area from another major metro-plex, and within 4 to 5 hours from 3 others - and I consider ALL the above to be my market mainly because I get guests from all the above.
As for the slopes, I have been told 10 miles is too far away. As in everything, it depends on the area, the people, and the mindset.
2 acres is a lot of upkeep. Heck, I just have a city lot and keeping it up is interesting at times. Of course I am old (my get up & go went a long time ago) and I am basically doing it alone since DH has a hard enough time navigating the house.
Can anyone find 2 acres within 2 hours of NYC? (OK, that is a SmartA question)

 

[EmptyNest]

• Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?

2 acres is alot of land to take care of. I don't know where you will find that close to the NYC. If you do, are you prepared to shell out say 2 million dollars???? And, people want to have a location that is convenient for them to go out to dinner, arts, theater, etc..you have to have LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION in order for them to come to you. Yes, I know there are some folks here in PODUNK..her words not mine But HONESTLY...if you are wanting to make this a real business and live from the income..you MUST be in a PRIME LOCATION!!!!

• Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts?

We are about 30 min. from 2 different ski area. No one ever stayed with us that went skiing to either of them. They have their own facilities and people want to be THERE..not drive to there.

• If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?

We are 90 minutes from Dulles Airport in D.C. we are a major tourist attraction with Luray Caverns and Shenandoah National Park. Foreign travel was way down here after 9/11 but it is now picking back up quickly with the dollar being such a good value for foreigners. And they fact that lots of foreign travelers go to D.C. and we are close enough with attractions that they also want to see. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on foreign travelers if there is no reason for them to come to your area. They want to see the attractions...if all you have is your B & B and expect them to stay with you...that probably won't be good enough

• Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.

If you are within 2 hours, it will be a day trip for most of NOVA folks...but our bread and butter is the romantic weekend getaways from the D.C. area. So most folks we have had as guests travel anywhere form 2 -6 hours for a weekend here with us.

 

[Copperhead]

Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?
Not really. This will be your nitch - quiet, secluded out from the hub but within easy reach. This fits my location to a tee. What I found difficult is finding a good way to let locals in on our secret. Every day I run into someone (or get a call) 'I didn't know you existed and you are so close!' Some innkeepers say 'locals are not my market' but you will be surpised as to how many referrals you can get from locals.
Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts?
I am in the south so can't speak for the skiiers. First, you can not be all things to all people. If you want to cater to skiiers, then I would find a location as close to the slopes as possible. People will choose a B&B for many reasons and some like to be away from the hub. Once you find a location you can address your convenience to attractions within a certain radius. Or if there is nothing around, you can promote solitude - it's sellable too.
If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?
It depends on what you have got going 90 minutes out. We are 50 minutes out and still draw a bit of international & national travel. Just keep in mind that YOUR place most likely will NOT be the draw for those travelers but MAY be the NICEST place around what they are wanting to visit in the area.
Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.
Wow - I agree with GH on this one regarding the 1hr. Anyway to get to the point and this will be quick. I have had getaway stays where the guests live as close as 4 miles away. Yes, 4 miles. I get 'locals' about a dozen or so times a year. Just had some 2 weeks ago. We call it getting, without getting away.

 

[stephanie]

Thanks for the responses thus far!
We're well aware that we'll have to compromise somewhere, whether convenience vs. seclusion, business guests vs. romantic weekenders, etc. This is just our starter wishlist. But since we're choosing our location/new home from scratch and narrowing down from there, the main goal is to figure out where we should compromise and what we need to have get the guests and their $.
Gillumhouse, sorry if I was unclear in my wording, but that's exactly what I meant by "1 hour is a day-trip to me." Any less than 2-3 hours and I wouldn't need to stay the night to regroup for the return trip--just head out for the day and back before nightfall. i.e. no B&B necessary. But I do get Copperhead's point that there are times when gas and car rental prices make me just want to pack a bag for the night and head up the block to the Sheraton for a getaway!
You're right. 2 acres is going to be a lot of upkeep, but one of our possible niches is events. I have a decent amount of experience as an event planner, and that's part of what we're hoping to offer as a B&B--one stop shop, book the whole place for a weekend wedding or retreat. If we do this, we'd need a place far enough away from the neighbors that they won't have an issue with outdoor events (music, extra cars, etc.) on the premises. So far have had no problems finding 2 acres within 2 hours of NYC. Where there is a problem, of course, is finding 2 acres close to historic towns, etc. that would attract tourists/weekenders when we're low on events. So it looks like we'll have to pick one or the other--convenience or seclusion--and work on the marketing from there.
Yes, I know what you mean about not being able to be everything to everyone (we marketers tell that to our clients all the time, but it's still hard to hear!). What we're trying to do is set our criteria for finding a location within our budget that can be most things to the most possible people. Hedge our bets, so to speak.
All this info is really valuable! Nice to hear the innkeeper perspective on what other guests are looking for, and I'm so thankful to have you all as a resource in one of the biggest gambles I've ever made!

 

[stephanie]

• Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?

2 acres is alot of land to take care of. I don't know where you will find that close to the NYC. If you do, are you prepared to shell out say 2 million dollars???? And, people want to have a location that is convenient for them to go out to dinner, arts, theater, etc..you have to have LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION in order for them to come to you. Yes, I know there are some folks here in PODUNK..her words not mine But HONESTLY...if you are wanting to make this a real business and live from the income..you MUST be in a PRIME LOCATION!!!!

• Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts?

We are about 30 min. from 2 different ski area. No one ever stayed with us that went skiing to either of them. They have their own facilities and people want to be THERE..not drive to there.

• If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?

We are 90 minutes from Dulles Airport in D.C. we are a major tourist attraction with Luray Caverns and Shenandoah National Park. Foreign travel was way down here after 9/11 but it is now picking back up quickly with the dollar being such a good value for foreigners. And they fact that lots of foreign travelers go to D.C. and we are close enough with attractions that they also want to see. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on foreign travelers if there is no reason for them to come to your area. They want to see the attractions...if all you have is your B & B and expect them to stay with you...that probably won't be good enough

• Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.

If you are within 2 hours, it will be a day trip for most of NOVA folks...but our bread and butter is the romantic weekend getaways from the D.C. area. So most folks we have had as guests travel anywhere form 2 -6 hours for a weekend here with us.

.

Catlady,
I actually lived outside DC for several years. Wish I had known about you back then! Where are you in proximity to Luray?
I definitely think a prime location is crucial to a successful B&B, but "prime" is different to different people and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Hunters and birdwatchers vs. international sightseers, for instance. Entirely different definitions of "prime" location.
Sounds like you're firmly of the opinion that you'd need to be in a metropolitan area or within walking distance of a major attraction, then? Being the mathematical brain that I am, I'm wondering what your formula is for attracting the tourist types, like "must be < 6 minute drive or 10 minute walk to tourist attraction and < 4 minute drive to dinner".

 

[YellowSocks]

Hi!
Welcome to the forum!!

DH and I are big-city corporate types hoping to find a smaller town and more fresh air.

I'm from a small town and am extremely happy to have returned to the Mid-West. Where I live now is big compared to where I grew up, but dinky compared to a big city. If you've spent your whole life in a big city it will be a big adjustment.

I've read the how-to books and websites, and am infinitely grateful to have found this forum to have the resulting rose-colored glasses ripped off.

Yes... they make it seem way to easy! As I've posted before (sorry regulars) one of the most useful things I learned from a how-to book was a list of five niches you could pursue. The book said you need a minimum of one, preferably 2-3. They are: 1) romantic get-away, 2) tourist, 3) university, 4) business, and 5) long-term hospital stays. If you are going to be out of town then you are talking romantic get-away. We have small children so we went for the university niche. We get people who call and ask if we are walking distance (we are). If we were 10-15 minutes out of town it would be significantly harder to get those bookings. So if you are looking at a two acre property outside of town it will be harder for you to get categories 3 through 5. People do like to be walking distance to a nice restaurant... our nicest ones are not really walking distance, but the fact that we have a few restaurants that can be walked to is a big plus.

I've been a city-girl most of my life, so it's tough to get into the mind-set of a small town visitor.

Actually, most of my visitors are from big cities. I'm the one with the small town mind-set. So, what if you were going there? If you were attending your cousin's wedding there, how far would you mind driving? If you went for a weekend getaway, how far would you be willing to drive for dinner? The main thing about small towns... no public transportation, often no taxi's, you drive to everything.

I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?

You can be quiet and secluded without having two acres, and even quiet and secluded in town (although that's more difficult). Most country places have 2-3 acres because that's how much you need for the sewer system. Where we are (in town) is not secluded, but it's a reasonably quiet residential area.

If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?

The draw for them will be some attraction, the more well known the better... Disney World, Niagra Falls, world-class shopping... they have to have heard about it in their country to want to come here and see it.

Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.

LOL... this sounds like the Kathy Rule of Travel... You have to spend at least the amount of time it takes to travel to and from a place actually at the place (awake). So if it takes me an hour and a half each way to the beach, I have to spend a minimum of three hours there. If it takes me a half hour to get to the party I'll have to spend at least an hour, really two, to make it worth it.
I'm new, so it's hard to say, but based on the map in my hall, we have quite a few people from an hour or so away who came for a particular event (wedding, reunion), but we also have a LOT who came from 2-4 hours away, again for events (race, wedding, meeting, reunion, class). I think the one anniversary couple we had came from 2-3 hours away.
Like someone else had posted... when I lived on the East Coast my commute was an hour or so. A day trip was an hour or two, even three, away.
=)
Kk.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

• Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?

2 acres is alot of land to take care of. I don't know where you will find that close to the NYC. If you do, are you prepared to shell out say 2 million dollars???? And, people want to have a location that is convenient for them to go out to dinner, arts, theater, etc..you have to have LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION in order for them to come to you. Yes, I know there are some folks here in PODUNK..her words not mine But HONESTLY...if you are wanting to make this a real business and live from the income..you MUST be in a PRIME LOCATION!!!!

• Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts?

We are about 30 min. from 2 different ski area. No one ever stayed with us that went skiing to either of them. They have their own facilities and people want to be THERE..not drive to there.

• If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?

We are 90 minutes from Dulles Airport in D.C. we are a major tourist attraction with Luray Caverns and Shenandoah National Park. Foreign travel was way down here after 9/11 but it is now picking back up quickly with the dollar being such a good value for foreigners. And they fact that lots of foreign travelers go to D.C. and we are close enough with attractions that they also want to see. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on foreign travelers if there is no reason for them to come to your area. They want to see the attractions...if all you have is your B & B and expect them to stay with you...that probably won't be good enough

• Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.

If you are within 2 hours, it will be a day trip for most of NOVA folks...but our bread and butter is the romantic weekend getaways from the D.C. area. So most folks we have had as guests travel anywhere form 2 -6 hours for a weekend here with us.

.

Catlady,
I actually lived outside DC for several years. Wish I had known about you back then! Where are you in proximity to Luray?
I definitely think a prime location is crucial to a successful B&B, but "prime" is different to different people and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Hunters and birdwatchers vs. international sightseers, for instance. Entirely different definitions of "prime" location.
Sounds like you're firmly of the opinion that you'd need to be in a metropolitan area or within walking distance of a major attraction, then? Being the mathematical brain that I am, I'm wondering what your formula is for attracting the tourist types, like "must be < 6 minute drive or 10 minute walk to tourist attraction and < 4 minute drive to dinner".
.

Catlady,
I actually lived outside DC for several years. Wish I had known about you back then! Where are you in proximity to Luray?
I definitely think a prime location is crucial to a successful B&B, but "prime" is different to different people and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Hunters and birdwatchers vs. international sightseers, for instance. Entirely different definitions of "prime" location.
Sounds like you're firmly of the opinion that you'd need to be in a metropolitan area or within walking distance of a major attraction, then? Being the mathematical brain that I am, I'm wondering what your formula is for attracting the tourist types, like "must be < 6 minute drive or 10 minute walk to tourist attraction and < 4 minute drive to dinner".

I will also spout the same thing I always do. VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF LIFE. If I had known THEn what I know now I would have made the most miserable decision of my life. Fortunately it worked out in our favor and we discovered a place we love and want to remain after we sell our B&B.
#1 you have to live there. Your VERY LARGE home will be very small when you are confined to your quarters most of the year. So wherever it may be, make sure you think of yourselves first. Having a room next to the guest rooms is NOT ENOUGH. Not even for one season.
Then the rest of the house - even with no guests checked in, needs to stay clean, so you don't want to hang out and have to clean it all again. That is the LAST thing you want to do!
#2 the variety thing. I get so much enjoyment from my guests. As you have been reading lately about some of the heartaches from the "typical tourists" at other B&B's. They treat the B&B like a hotel, not like a home. From that you can have many many issues - esp after all the hard work sweat and tears you put into these places! This is where our NE innkeeper is suffering now. People not caring and having no respect for her home. It hurts ya. Esp if it happens often.
So those are my two cents. If you go into this to make money - you won't. You make ends meet, you pour the rest into updates and renovations and repairs. We jave spetn $2000 so far repairing our front porch and this is why Dh doing all the work 14 hours on every saturday. It is not even finished, still needs to be sanded and painted. There went any profit from this summer so far...back into the building.
But it has to be done. I agree location location location. If you are in an area with absolutely obnoxious people - that state will remain anon -- but my dining rm board says "Water termp at the lake 85 degrees -- no sharks!" (If that is any indication to who I am addressing) - then you will HATE your life. You will be on your knees praying for only out of state guests. But with gas prices etc, we are seeing many more instate guests.
Location is key. Make it a place YOU want to live. Make it a place you can be involved and enjoy what you do.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

PS a guest told me once she found us by getting out a compass and drawing a circle around a specific section of highway on her road atlas, then looked for lodging within that circle.
This would be a good thing to try in the area you are interested in.
But I will say YOU MUST be accessable via a highway or interstate. If you put yourself too far off of that people won't be willing to do the drive - unless it is Yellowstone or something.

 

[EmptyNest]

• Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?

2 acres is alot of land to take care of. I don't know where you will find that close to the NYC. If you do, are you prepared to shell out say 2 million dollars???? And, people want to have a location that is convenient for them to go out to dinner, arts, theater, etc..you have to have LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION in order for them to come to you. Yes, I know there are some folks here in PODUNK..her words not mine But HONESTLY...if you are wanting to make this a real business and live from the income..you MUST be in a PRIME LOCATION!!!!

• Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts?

We are about 30 min. from 2 different ski area. No one ever stayed with us that went skiing to either of them. They have their own facilities and people want to be THERE..not drive to there.

• If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?

We are 90 minutes from Dulles Airport in D.C. we are a major tourist attraction with Luray Caverns and Shenandoah National Park. Foreign travel was way down here after 9/11 but it is now picking back up quickly with the dollar being such a good value for foreigners. And they fact that lots of foreign travelers go to D.C. and we are close enough with attractions that they also want to see. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on foreign travelers if there is no reason for them to come to your area. They want to see the attractions...if all you have is your B & B and expect them to stay with you...that probably won't be good enough

• Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.

If you are within 2 hours, it will be a day trip for most of NOVA folks...but our bread and butter is the romantic weekend getaways from the D.C. area. So most folks we have had as guests travel anywhere form 2 -6 hours for a weekend here with us.

.

Catlady,
I actually lived outside DC for several years. Wish I had known about you back then! Where are you in proximity to Luray?
I definitely think a prime location is crucial to a successful B&B, but "prime" is different to different people and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Hunters and birdwatchers vs. international sightseers, for instance. Entirely different definitions of "prime" location.
Sounds like you're firmly of the opinion that you'd need to be in a metropolitan area or within walking distance of a major attraction, then? Being the mathematical brain that I am, I'm wondering what your formula is for attracting the tourist types, like "must be < 6 minute drive or 10 minute walk to tourist attraction and < 4 minute drive to dinner".
.

I am 2 miles south of Luray on top of a hill which looks down into the valley and Skyline Drive can be seen from our front porch. The proverbial "million dollar view!"
No you don't need to be in a metropolitan area, just a place that is convenient so that city folks can get to you and have a reason to go to that particular place. You may have read here the other day, Innkeeper keeps getting asked..WHAT IS THERE TO DO???? Well, innkeepers are not there to provide entertainment and things to do, they are there to give you a place to sleep and breakfast to get you on your way to whatever guests want to do. So...if you expect people to come and stay at your inn, why would they??? Unless you are a SPA destination where you deliver these services to guests who want them..there has to be something that will attract guests to your location..IE, hiking in the Shenandoah national park, or visiting the half dozen or so wineries within easy reach of your inn...see what I mean.
Yes, if you are en route to somewhere..you may get some traffic...ie: snowbirds heading back and forth to FL. Or if there is say LLBEAN across the street from your inn...see ...to me..there has to be a reason. And it also depends on what niche you want to focus on.
Another example, we have NOVA guests, who think it is awful to have to drive on our dark country roads at night. We can't send them to our favorite Italian restaurant because it is 35 minutes away...they won't drive that! So we send them to the restuarants which are right in town...5 min. away. See what I mean????

 

[EmptyNest]

Thanks for the responses thus far!
We're well aware that we'll have to compromise somewhere, whether convenience vs. seclusion, business guests vs. romantic weekenders, etc. This is just our starter wishlist. But since we're choosing our location/new home from scratch and narrowing down from there, the main goal is to figure out where we should compromise and what we need to have get the guests and their $.
Gillumhouse, sorry if I was unclear in my wording, but that's exactly what I meant by "1 hour is a day-trip to me." Any less than 2-3 hours and I wouldn't need to stay the night to regroup for the return trip--just head out for the day and back before nightfall. i.e. no B&B necessary. But I do get Copperhead's point that there are times when gas and car rental prices make me just want to pack a bag for the night and head up the block to the Sheraton for a getaway!
You're right. 2 acres is going to be a lot of upkeep, but one of our possible niches is events. I have a decent amount of experience as an event planner, and that's part of what we're hoping to offer as a B&B--one stop shop, book the whole place for a weekend wedding or retreat. If we do this, we'd need a place far enough away from the neighbors that they won't have an issue with outdoor events (music, extra cars, etc.) on the premises. So far have had no problems finding 2 acres within 2 hours of NYC. Where there is a problem, of course, is finding 2 acres close to historic towns, etc. that would attract tourists/weekenders when we're low on events. So it looks like we'll have to pick one or the other--convenience or seclusion--and work on the marketing from there.
Yes, I know what you mean about not being able to be everything to everyone (we marketers tell that to our clients all the time, but it's still hard to hear!). What we're trying to do is set our criteria for finding a location within our budget that can be most things to the most possible people. Hedge our bets, so to speak.
All this info is really valuable! Nice to hear the innkeeper perspective on what other guests are looking for, and I'm so thankful to have you all as a resource in one of the biggest gambles I've ever made!.

WE've all made this the biggest gamble of our lives!! I think so anyway

 

[YellowSocks]

• Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?

2 acres is alot of land to take care of. I don't know where you will find that close to the NYC. If you do, are you prepared to shell out say 2 million dollars???? And, people want to have a location that is convenient for them to go out to dinner, arts, theater, etc..you have to have LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION in order for them to come to you. Yes, I know there are some folks here in PODUNK..her words not mine But HONESTLY...if you are wanting to make this a real business and live from the income..you MUST be in a PRIME LOCATION!!!!

• Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts?

We are about 30 min. from 2 different ski area. No one ever stayed with us that went skiing to either of them. They have their own facilities and people want to be THERE..not drive to there.

• If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?

We are 90 minutes from Dulles Airport in D.C. we are a major tourist attraction with Luray Caverns and Shenandoah National Park. Foreign travel was way down here after 9/11 but it is now picking back up quickly with the dollar being such a good value for foreigners. And they fact that lots of foreign travelers go to D.C. and we are close enough with attractions that they also want to see. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on foreign travelers if there is no reason for them to come to your area. They want to see the attractions...if all you have is your B & B and expect them to stay with you...that probably won't be good enough

• Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.

If you are within 2 hours, it will be a day trip for most of NOVA folks...but our bread and butter is the romantic weekend getaways from the D.C. area. So most folks we have had as guests travel anywhere form 2 -6 hours for a weekend here with us.

.

Catlady,
I actually lived outside DC for several years. Wish I had known about you back then! Where are you in proximity to Luray?
I definitely think a prime location is crucial to a successful B&B, but "prime" is different to different people and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Hunters and birdwatchers vs. international sightseers, for instance. Entirely different definitions of "prime" location.
Sounds like you're firmly of the opinion that you'd need to be in a metropolitan area or within walking distance of a major attraction, then? Being the mathematical brain that I am, I'm wondering what your formula is for attracting the tourist types, like "must be < 6 minute drive or 10 minute walk to tourist attraction and < 4 minute drive to dinner".
.

Catlady,
I actually lived outside DC for several years. Wish I had known about you back then! Where are you in proximity to Luray?
I definitely think a prime location is crucial to a successful B&B, but "prime" is different to different people and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Hunters and birdwatchers vs. international sightseers, for instance. Entirely different definitions of "prime" location.
Sounds like you're firmly of the opinion that you'd need to be in a metropolitan area or within walking distance of a major attraction, then? Being the mathematical brain that I am, I'm wondering what your formula is for attracting the tourist types, like "must be < 6 minute drive or 10 minute walk to tourist attraction and < 4 minute drive to dinner".

I will also spout the same thing I always do. VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF LIFE. If I had known THEn what I know now I would have made the most miserable decision of my life. Fortunately it worked out in our favor and we discovered a place we love and want to remain after we sell our B&B.
#1 you have to live there. Your VERY LARGE home will be very small when you are confined to your quarters most of the year. So wherever it may be, make sure you think of yourselves first. Having a room next to the guest rooms is NOT ENOUGH. Not even for one season.
Then the rest of the house - even with no guests checked in, needs to stay clean, so you don't want to hang out and have to clean it all again. That is the LAST thing you want to do!
#2 the variety thing. I get so much enjoyment from my guests. As you have been reading lately about some of the heartaches from the "typical tourists" at other B&B's. They treat the B&B like a hotel, not like a home. From that you can have many many issues - esp after all the hard work sweat and tears you put into these places! This is where our NE innkeeper is suffering now. People not caring and having no respect for her home. It hurts ya. Esp if it happens often.
So those are my two cents. If you go into this to make money - you won't. You make ends meet, you pour the rest into updates and renovations and repairs. We jave spetn $2000 so far repairing our front porch and this is why Dh doing all the work 14 hours on every saturday. It is not even finished, still needs to be sanded and painted. There went any profit from this summer so far...back into the building.
But it has to be done. I agree location location location. If you are in an area with absolutely obnoxious people - that state will remain anon -- but my dining rm board says "Water termp at the lake 85 degrees -- no sharks!" (If that is any indication to who I am addressing) - then you will HATE your life. You will be on your knees praying for only out of state guests. But with gas prices etc, we are seeing many more instate guests.
Location is key. Make it a place YOU want to live. Make it a place you can be involved and enjoy what you do.
.

Location is key. Make it a place YOU want to live. Make it a place you can be involved and enjoy what you do.

Yes... I forgot to say that, too.
Pick a place to live that is heaven on earth to you. That's what Gillum House and I and others here have done. 'Cause if you ain't happy, you're guests won't be either!!!! (Or as we figured, if the B&B doesn't pan out, at least we live in a great home in a great town that we WANT to live in!)
I used to ask people, "If you could live anywhere, where would it be?" Followed by, "Well, then, why don't you go live there?"
=)
Kk.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

We have a few innkeepers here who have cabins. They are near lakes or wooded areas near lakes or rivers or wine countries. I heard NY has the best wines now (LOL).
Think about what YOU like to do when you get away and what you would want to see and go from there. Obv the more the merrier on your list. If I was waterfront they would knock my doors down to book a room. location location. Rooms all with views - same same. Hot tubs AND views. I mean there are alot of variables.
Most of us are in small towns in historic crotchety bohemoths that require endless maintenance and we dream of building a new. PLUS MANY people want to take their pet on vacation with them now. That would be a great feature on your 2 acres. Like a dog park for the pets as well.

 

[stephanie]

We have a few innkeepers here who have cabins. They are near lakes or wooded areas near lakes or rivers or wine countries. I heard NY has the best wines now (LOL).
Think about what YOU like to do when you get away and what you would want to see and go from there. Obv the more the merrier on your list. If I was waterfront they would knock my doors down to book a room. location location. Rooms all with views - same same. Hot tubs AND views. I mean there are alot of variables.
Most of us are in small towns in historic crotchety bohemoths that require endless maintenance and we dream of building a new. PLUS MANY people want to take their pet on vacation with them now. That would be a great feature on your 2 acres. Like a dog park for the pets as well..

Dog park! Great idea.
One of the places we are considering is in a town that hosts frequent horse shows, but boarding horses was more than we could wrap our heads around. We're still learning how to board humans!
Problem with pets is that I have allergies, and I'd be doing most of the indoor cleaning. If they were outdoor animals, maybe it could work. Any of you have a dog park? Is that sort of like a barn for dogs with a running area? I'm guessing that doesn't sit well with the women who favor purse dogs, but for sporting dogs, perhaps?

 

[stephanie]

• Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town?

2 acres is alot of land to take care of. I don't know where you will find that close to the NYC. If you do, are you prepared to shell out say 2 million dollars???? And, people want to have a location that is convenient for them to go out to dinner, arts, theater, etc..you have to have LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION in order for them to come to you. Yes, I know there are some folks here in PODUNK..her words not mine But HONESTLY...if you are wanting to make this a real business and live from the income..you MUST be in a PRIME LOCATION!!!!

• Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts?

We are about 30 min. from 2 different ski area. No one ever stayed with us that went skiing to either of them. They have their own facilities and people want to be THERE..not drive to there.

• If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd?

We are 90 minutes from Dulles Airport in D.C. we are a major tourist attraction with Luray Caverns and Shenandoah National Park. Foreign travel was way down here after 9/11 but it is now picking back up quickly with the dollar being such a good value for foreigners. And they fact that lots of foreign travelers go to D.C. and we are close enough with attractions that they also want to see. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on foreign travelers if there is no reason for them to come to your area. They want to see the attractions...if all you have is your B & B and expect them to stay with you...that probably won't be good enough

• Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time.

If you are within 2 hours, it will be a day trip for most of NOVA folks...but our bread and butter is the romantic weekend getaways from the D.C. area. So most folks we have had as guests travel anywhere form 2 -6 hours for a weekend here with us.

.

Catlady,
I actually lived outside DC for several years. Wish I had known about you back then! Where are you in proximity to Luray?
I definitely think a prime location is crucial to a successful B&B, but "prime" is different to different people and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Hunters and birdwatchers vs. international sightseers, for instance. Entirely different definitions of "prime" location.
Sounds like you're firmly of the opinion that you'd need to be in a metropolitan area or within walking distance of a major attraction, then? Being the mathematical brain that I am, I'm wondering what your formula is for attracting the tourist types, like "must be < 6 minute drive or 10 minute walk to tourist attraction and < 4 minute drive to dinner".
.

I am 2 miles south of Luray on top of a hill which looks down into the valley and Skyline Drive can be seen from our front porch. The proverbial "million dollar view!"
No you don't need to be in a metropolitan area, just a place that is convenient so that city folks can get to you and have a reason to go to that particular place. You may have read here the other day, Innkeeper keeps getting asked..WHAT IS THERE TO DO???? Well, innkeepers are not there to provide entertainment and things to do, they are there to give you a place to sleep and breakfast to get you on your way to whatever guests want to do. So...if you expect people to come and stay at your inn, why would they??? Unless you are a SPA destination where you deliver these services to guests who want them..there has to be something that will attract guests to your location..IE, hiking in the Shenandoah national park, or visiting the half dozen or so wineries within easy reach of your inn...see what I mean.
Yes, if you are en route to somewhere..you may get some traffic...ie: snowbirds heading back and forth to FL. Or if there is say LLBEAN across the street from your inn...see ...to me..there has to be a reason. And it also depends on what niche you want to focus on.
Another example, we have NOVA guests, who think it is awful to have to drive on our dark country roads at night. We can't send them to our favorite Italian restaurant because it is 35 minutes away...they won't drive that! So we send them to the restuarants which are right in town...5 min. away. See what I mean????
.

Point well-taken. The B&Bs we're looking at are in fairly popular tourist towns, as in within town limits but maybe a 10-minute drive to the town center. I, too, am not a fan of dark country roads, but in general once I'm in a car 5 vs. 15 minutes doesn't make a huge difference to me. More than that is a "no" if I'm on vacation and the only thing on the other side of that 20-minute drive is dinner. I'd rather head to the diner 5 minutes away.
Your home sounds wonderful! Too bad we missed it as a B&B, but congratulations on having it all to yourself now.

 

[gillumhouse]

Thanks for the responses thus far!
We're well aware that we'll have to compromise somewhere, whether convenience vs. seclusion, business guests vs. romantic weekenders, etc. This is just our starter wishlist. But since we're choosing our location/new home from scratch and narrowing down from there, the main goal is to figure out where we should compromise and what we need to have get the guests and their $.
Gillumhouse, sorry if I was unclear in my wording, but that's exactly what I meant by "1 hour is a day-trip to me." Any less than 2-3 hours and I wouldn't need to stay the night to regroup for the return trip--just head out for the day and back before nightfall. i.e. no B&B necessary. But I do get Copperhead's point that there are times when gas and car rental prices make me just want to pack a bag for the night and head up the block to the Sheraton for a getaway!
You're right. 2 acres is going to be a lot of upkeep, but one of our possible niches is events. I have a decent amount of experience as an event planner, and that's part of what we're hoping to offer as a B&B--one stop shop, book the whole place for a weekend wedding or retreat. If we do this, we'd need a place far enough away from the neighbors that they won't have an issue with outdoor events (music, extra cars, etc.) on the premises. So far have had no problems finding 2 acres within 2 hours of NYC. Where there is a problem, of course, is finding 2 acres close to historic towns, etc. that would attract tourists/weekenders when we're low on events. So it looks like we'll have to pick one or the other--convenience or seclusion--and work on the marketing from there.
Yes, I know what you mean about not being able to be everything to everyone (we marketers tell that to our clients all the time, but it's still hard to hear!). What we're trying to do is set our criteria for finding a location within our budget that can be most things to the most possible people. Hedge our bets, so to speak.
All this info is really valuable! Nice to hear the innkeeper perspective on what other guests are looking for, and I'm so thankful to have you all as a resource in one of the biggest gambles I've ever made!.

I should not read things when I belong in bed. I read your 1 hour is a day trip wrong (as in that is how far you are willing to drive). Now that I am almost awake, I get your drift.
I have actually had locals book in for a couple nights of get-away and because I had routings to things they were not aware of (example of Chicagoans who have not been to the top of the Sears Tower because it is THERE - big deal) and I tell them about it. (I have done many a day trip that was a 3 hour drive though - cheap, cheap or broke, broke, take your pick).
And if you find the hooks (have several because one will not be enough) market the heck out of them. And be patient - it may take a while for the whopping pay-off.

 

[Morticia]

Hi everyone!
I'm an aspiring, and I have been lurking for a few weeks now. Thanks, all of you veterans, for your candor, advice and encouragement to us newbies. As I mentioned on another thread, I've read the how-to books and websites, and am infinitely grateful to have found this forum to have the resulting rose-colored glasses ripped off. DH and I are big-city corporate types hoping to find a smaller town and more fresh air. We've worked together before and love it, and stumbled across the B&B biz in our search for a start-up we could do together. We know it will be hard work every day, but hope we can both make a living between the B&B and occasional freelance gigs.
We're currently scoping out potential locations. The criteria are: within 2-hour drive of NYC (public transportation options a +), year-round attractions, 6+ rooms, 2+ acres of land for weddings and events, turn-key preferred. Our top choices so far are the Catskills, the Poconos, and Bree mentioned CT on another thread, which I'll start looking into.
Here are my location-related questions for all you experts. I've been a city-girl most of my life, so it's tough to get into the mind-set of a small town visitor. I know it's all relative, but I'd appreciate any opinions, advice, case studies, etc.:

• Due to my 2-acre-plus preference, most of the locations we're tracking are a 10-minute drive to town centers/restaurants/attractions. I personally prefer a location that is quiet and secluded, but does that mean we'll be working twice as hard to attract guests as places in town? The short answer is yes, it will be harder for you if there are places to stay in town. The long answer is you can get them there IF you are the destination. ie- you offer such an attraction that guests don't care they have to drive to dinner, etc.
• Similarly, do you need to be at the foot of the slopes to attract skiiers or are they willing to drive 15-30 minutes from your B&B to get to 2-3 resorts? That depends on whether or not there are big lodging resorts AT the slopes.
• If you're a 90-minute drive to the nearest major airport, what are the chances of drawing a national/international crowd? Very good. But it depends on the airport! JFK? Excellent chance of international tourists. I am 2 hours from a 'major' airport and I get quite a few int'l travelers.
• Is there an ideal distance from a major city that seems to attract weekenders? For instance, 1 hour is a day-trip to me, but 4 hours means I'll need a 3-day weekend to make it worth the travel time. 2-3 hours.

Thanks!!!

 

[stephanie]

Thanks for the responses thus far!
We're well aware that we'll have to compromise somewhere, whether convenience vs. seclusion, business guests vs. romantic weekenders, etc. This is just our starter wishlist. But since we're choosing our location/new home from scratch and narrowing down from there, the main goal is to figure out where we should compromise and what we need to have get the guests and their $.
Gillumhouse, sorry if I was unclear in my wording, but that's exactly what I meant by "1 hour is a day-trip to me." Any less than 2-3 hours and I wouldn't need to stay the night to regroup for the return trip--just head out for the day and back before nightfall. i.e. no B&B necessary. But I do get Copperhead's point that there are times when gas and car rental prices make me just want to pack a bag for the night and head up the block to the Sheraton for a getaway!
You're right. 2 acres is going to be a lot of upkeep, but one of our possible niches is events. I have a decent amount of experience as an event planner, and that's part of what we're hoping to offer as a B&B--one stop shop, book the whole place for a weekend wedding or retreat. If we do this, we'd need a place far enough away from the neighbors that they won't have an issue with outdoor events (music, extra cars, etc.) on the premises. So far have had no problems finding 2 acres within 2 hours of NYC. Where there is a problem, of course, is finding 2 acres close to historic towns, etc. that would attract tourists/weekenders when we're low on events. So it looks like we'll have to pick one or the other--convenience or seclusion--and work on the marketing from there.
Yes, I know what you mean about not being able to be everything to everyone (we marketers tell that to our clients all the time, but it's still hard to hear!). What we're trying to do is set our criteria for finding a location within our budget that can be most things to the most possible people. Hedge our bets, so to speak.
All this info is really valuable! Nice to hear the innkeeper perspective on what other guests are looking for, and I'm so thankful to have you all as a resource in one of the biggest gambles I've ever made!.

I should not read things when I belong in bed. I read your 1 hour is a day trip wrong (as in that is how far you are willing to drive). Now that I am almost awake, I get your drift.
I have actually had locals book in for a couple nights of get-away and because I had routings to things they were not aware of (example of Chicagoans who have not been to the top of the Sears Tower because it is THERE - big deal) and I tell them about it. (I have done many a day trip that was a 3 hour drive though - cheap, cheap or broke, broke, take your pick).
And if you find the hooks (have several because one will not be enough) market the heck out of them. And be patient - it may take a while for the whopping pay-off.
.

Careful, Gillumhouse! Wouldn't want to promise the lurking aspirings that there'll be a "whopping pay-off" down the road!

Marketing the hooks--I like your style. DH and I have been brainstorming how we would market each turnkey differently, for practice. It's also a great test for each of our candidates, whether we'd be able to sell it convincingly.
When I mentioned how you had made your town a tourist destination, he took off with it; loved the idea. It's great to hear that one B&B can make a difference!

 

[Samster]

We have a few innkeepers here who have cabins. They are near lakes or wooded areas near lakes or rivers or wine countries. I heard NY has the best wines now (LOL).
Think about what YOU like to do when you get away and what you would want to see and go from there. Obv the more the merrier on your list. If I was waterfront they would knock my doors down to book a room. location location. Rooms all with views - same same. Hot tubs AND views. I mean there are alot of variables.
Most of us are in small towns in historic crotchety bohemoths that require endless maintenance and we dream of building a new. PLUS MANY people want to take their pet on vacation with them now. That would be a great feature on your 2 acres. Like a dog park for the pets as well..

Dog park! Great idea.
One of the places we are considering is in a town that hosts frequent horse shows, but boarding horses was more than we could wrap our heads around. We're still learning how to board humans!
Problem with pets is that I have allergies, and I'd be doing most of the indoor cleaning. If they were outdoor animals, maybe it could work. Any of you have a dog park? Is that sort of like a barn for dogs with a running area? I'm guessing that doesn't sit well with the women who favor purse dogs, but for sporting dogs, perhaps?
.

Some thoughts from a newbie:
We are 90 minutes from the major metropolis in our State...that does not help our draw for guests one twit. They don't escape from that city to travel here unless it is for a specific event. So, it definitely depends on your geographical or regional location. What is the big draw??
I agree with JBJ & YS - variety is the spice of life! It helps to have several reasons for folks to stay with you. So far we've had folks here for their wedding night, husband/wife reunions after the husband has been deployed, a few local "getaways" (romantic), business guests, university guests, visiting artists to our major museum, (business), folks here for events at our large military installation nearby, people on their way to beaches, (family visits) people here for conventions or National competitions (events), and a few from other towns in our State (sightseeing). Our big draw over local hotels is probably that we're in a National Register Historic District in a couple of old, restored houses and our guests can walk to a lot of things.
Here's the thing - I was at the dentist today & they were asking how our business was going. In their minds (locals), they only saw a couple of "tourist" kinds of things that are about 45 minutes away as the reason for people to come to our City. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? They don't even know what's in their own backyard! That's where it helps that we are relatively new to the area
Before we came here, we were looking at properties that are more of what you're talking about. If you're out on property, people will see you more as a destination & be hanging around more so there is the potential that you might have to "entertain" them more or have more things for them to do right on the property. We're lucky that we have plenty to send folks to do for a several day stay, even if it rains.
Regarding the skiing - we were looking at a beautiful property in Colorado & it was just a little too far from the closest slope. You have to think of people getting from your property to the mountain. Having been a skiier for years, I wouldn't want to schlep my stuff too far once I'm someplace to ski, if you know what I mean.
Weddings & events sound great but wait until you get into the work of them! I have a good friend with almost exactly the type of setup that you're describing (without the skiing) and they now will only do weddings for 25 or fewer people. Their favorite type of weddings are elopements where the bride & groom stay with them. There's an awful lot of brouhaha with the full blown weddings!!
Best of luck with the search - many of us have been there

 

[YellowSocks]

We have a few innkeepers here who have cabins. They are near lakes or wooded areas near lakes or rivers or wine countries. I heard NY has the best wines now (LOL).
Think about what YOU like to do when you get away and what you would want to see and go from there. Obv the more the merrier on your list. If I was waterfront they would knock my doors down to book a room. location location. Rooms all with views - same same. Hot tubs AND views. I mean there are alot of variables.
Most of us are in small towns in historic crotchety bohemoths that require endless maintenance and we dream of building a new. PLUS MANY people want to take their pet on vacation with them now. That would be a great feature on your 2 acres. Like a dog park for the pets as well..

Dog park! Great idea.
One of the places we are considering is in a town that hosts frequent horse shows, but boarding horses was more than we could wrap our heads around. We're still learning how to board humans!
Problem with pets is that I have allergies, and I'd be doing most of the indoor cleaning. If they were outdoor animals, maybe it could work. Any of you have a dog park? Is that sort of like a barn for dogs with a running area? I'm guessing that doesn't sit well with the women who favor purse dogs, but for sporting dogs, perhaps?
.

Some thoughts from a newbie:
We are 90 minutes from the major metropolis in our State...that does not help our draw for guests one twit. They don't escape from that city to travel here unless it is for a specific event. So, it definitely depends on your geographical or regional location. What is the big draw??
I agree with JBJ & YS - variety is the spice of life! It helps to have several reasons for folks to stay with you. So far we've had folks here for their wedding night, husband/wife reunions after the husband has been deployed, a few local "getaways" (romantic), business guests, university guests, visiting artists to our major museum, (business), folks here for events at our large military installation nearby, people on their way to beaches, (family visits) people here for conventions or National competitions (events), and a few from other towns in our State (sightseeing). Our big draw over local hotels is probably that we're in a National Register Historic District in a couple of old, restored houses and our guests can walk to a lot of things.
Here's the thing - I was at the dentist today & they were asking how our business was going. In their minds (locals), they only saw a couple of "tourist" kinds of things that are about 45 minutes away as the reason for people to come to our City. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? They don't even know what's in their own backyard! That's where it helps that we are relatively new to the area
Before we came here, we were looking at properties that are more of what you're talking about. If you're out on property, people will see you more as a destination & be hanging around more so there is the potential that you might have to "entertain" them more or have more things for them to do right on the property. We're lucky that we have plenty to send folks to do for a several day stay, even if it rains.
Regarding the skiing - we were looking at a beautiful property in Colorado & it was just a little too far from the closest slope. You have to think of people getting from your property to the mountain. Having been a skiier for years, I wouldn't want to schlep my stuff too far once I'm someplace to ski, if you know what I mean.
Weddings & events sound great but wait until you get into the work of them! I have a good friend with almost exactly the type of setup that you're describing (without the skiing) and they now will only do weddings for 25 or fewer people. Their favorite type of weddings are elopements where the bride & groom stay with them. There's an awful lot of brouhaha with the full blown weddings!!
Best of luck with the search - many of us have been there
.

If you're out on property, people will see you more as a destination & be hanging around more so there is the potential that you might have to "entertain" them more or have more things for them to do right on the property.

Yes, one of the first innkeepers I interviewed said to be sure to pick a place where there were things to do or the guests would expect YOU to entertain them!
=)
Kk.