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egoodell

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Catlady,
I have a question - I've already sent it to the current president of the B&B Assn but wanted to pick your brains as well.
There is an innkeeper in a small town in Virginia that like me works out of the inn during the week.
Like me she has a B&B ABC license, and when she was given it the agent knew she worked outside the business during the week.
She had a call this past week from her NEW agent. When she got to the inn he issued her a warning.
He says that when a B&B has an ABC license the innkeeper must be on the premises 24/7 when there is a registered guest there (he saw a car outside the inn with a New York license)
None of us on the other chat board can ever recall being told this and one of them has had the license for 10 years - one of the first ones issued.
I believe that this new agent does not know the difference between a regular ABC license, where an ABC manager must always be on duty, and a B&B license.
We also can find nothing on the online regulations indicating that this agent is correct.
When would the innkeeper do their shopping when booked? How would I be running my tours? I'd have to force all my guests to book the tours as well as the rooms.
I think this is another inspector that does not know their stuff. Your opinion?
Riki
 

Morticia

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Obviously, I cannot respond to this, but I see some flaws regardless...a car in the parking area does not mean someone is there (innkeeper or guest). If all that is required for that sort of inspection is a car, the innkeeper could have a neighbor park there to show 'there is someone home'.
You cannot control random people pulling in and parking even when you are not even taking guests. (At least I can't.)
Just because the guest's car is present, does not mean the guest is. The guest could be out with you on the tour. Will the inspector knock on the door and demand to search the premises for 'guests' or 'innkeepers'?
It sounds like someone is a bit overzealous in their new job. But, you certainly have the stories about what is actually written down and what someone THINKS (or wants) the policy to be.
 

gillumhouse

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My friend in Ohio was nailed accused of doing catering because her van was spotted parked on the street in front of the High School alumni office (she is an alum AND works there). The Health Dept official came to her house as she was pulling out and actually followed her to her destination (her parents) to cite her/warn her. She told him to wait right there while she took care of her legless Dad and then came back to inform HIM of the Ohio food rules regarding B & B. Had she not known the rules, she would have been intimidated by him. She then called his boss (who she knew) and gave HIM the riot act because she found out it was the boss who saw the van. Edited to add he saw her carrying a pizza box into the office. I guess we are not aloowed to srop and bring in lunch.
Bureaucrats!!!
 

JunieBJones (JBJ)

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?
 

egoodell

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
 

egoodell

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Obviously, I cannot respond to this, but I see some flaws regardless...a car in the parking area does not mean someone is there (innkeeper or guest). If all that is required for that sort of inspection is a car, the innkeeper could have a neighbor park there to show 'there is someone home'.
You cannot control random people pulling in and parking even when you are not even taking guests. (At least I can't.)
Just because the guest's car is present, does not mean the guest is. The guest could be out with you on the tour. Will the inspector knock on the door and demand to search the premises for 'guests' or 'innkeepers'?
It sounds like someone is a bit overzealous in their new job. But, you certainly have the stories about what is actually written down and what someone THINKS (or wants) the policy to be..
This fellow is claiming that she must be there whether or not the guest is! She is supposed to be there 24/7 until the guest checks out!!
Riki
 

egoodell

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
And also note: this innkeeper received her license from the previous agent who knew she worked down the street when he gave it to her. Just like my agent knows I work at UVA and Chris runs the wine tours. Nobody has ever heard of this requirement in the past 10 years that this license has been given out.
I reported this to our Association because I think they like to squelch these things before they get out of hand too.
RIki
 

Samster

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
In our city if the B&B has a liquor license, someone has to be on premises 24/7 when there are registered guests. Former owners told me that it was also a condition for their insurance agent with the liquor on premises. The thought is that you cannot always be sure when people are coming & going and someone needs to be there. That's the regs here.
 

Morticia

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
RIki
That just sounds like hooey. Just the instances you have mentioned (shopping, giving tours) that don't even take into account any NORMAL activities humans do in the course of a week, make it untenable to expect 24x7 compliance. I would hope that as long as guests do not have full access to the wine at all times, this is just a case of reading too much into a reg. (Or not knowing the correct one, as you stated.)
 

egoodell

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
RIki
That just sounds like hooey. Just the instances you have mentioned (shopping, giving tours) that don't even take into account any NORMAL activities humans do in the course of a week, make it untenable to expect 24x7 compliance. I would hope that as long as guests do not have full access to the wine at all times, this is just a case of reading too much into a reg. (Or not knowing the correct one, as you stated.)
.
It IS hoey since one of the regs is that we MUST keep all liquor locked up. That is one I do know is true as they told us.
Riki
 

JunieBJones (JBJ)

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates did that mean he came by when both innkeepers (or is a sole innkeeper) were not there and the place was unattended?
I can see in this state that the law would be ONSITE when guests are checked in.
Just trying to get my head around this.
 

egoodell

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
In our city if the B&B has a liquor license, someone has to be on premises 24/7 when there are registered guests. Former owners told me that it was also a condition for their insurance agent with the liquor on premises. The thought is that you cannot always be sure when people are coming & going and someone needs to be there. That's the regs here.
.
Are you in Virginia?
Our insurance company does NOT require that. It makes absolutely no sense, especially when our liquor is locked up. I would change my insurance company immediately. They charge so much for the liquor rider I would not accept being told that.
Riki
 

Morticia

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates did that mean he came by when both innkeepers (or is a sole innkeeper) were not there and the place was unattended?
I can see in this state that the law would be ONSITE when guests are checked in.
Just trying to get my head around this.
.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates (she) did that mean she came by when you both were not there and the place was unattended?
Just trying to get my head around this.
Yowza. Can you imagine. 24x7. No walks. No Starbucks. No popping next door to visit.
We do leave info for the guests to contact us in emergency if we have the temerity to think we should be able to leave the building at any time.

 

egoodell

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates did that mean he came by when both innkeepers (or is a sole innkeeper) were not there and the place was unattended?
I can see in this state that the law would be ONSITE when guests are checked in.
Just trying to get my head around this.
.
We are on site innkeepers, but we have left the inn when guests were in town, and sometimes when they were in the inn. They always have our cell if we do go out.
My insurance and health and safety has not told us that we must be there 100% 24/7 when a registered guest is in town.
The only instance that I'm aware of that the innkeeper must be there 24/7 is a County one - if the B&B has any open fireplaces in the inn.
This was initiated when the Clifton Inn had the fire - they are a large commercial inn/B&B- a relais chateau that didn't have their alarms connected - don't ask me how they passed to get their license!
That is the only time an innkeeper is held hostage at an inn while registered guests are in town.
RIki
 

egoodell

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates did that mean he came by when both innkeepers (or is a sole innkeeper) were not there and the place was unattended?
I can see in this state that the law would be ONSITE when guests are checked in.
Just trying to get my head around this.
.
To my knowlege he saw the out of state license plate and called the innkeeper at work as she was not at the inn. Nobody was at the inn, neither the guest nor the innkeeper.
Riki
 

Samster

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
In our city if the B&B has a liquor license, someone has to be on premises 24/7 when there are registered guests. Former owners told me that it was also a condition for their insurance agent with the liquor on premises. The thought is that you cannot always be sure when people are coming & going and someone needs to be there. That's the regs here.
.
Are you in Virginia?
Our insurance company does NOT require that. It makes absolutely no sense, especially when our liquor is locked up. I would change my insurance company immediately. They charge so much for the liquor rider I would not accept being told that.
Riki
.
No, not in VA. When liquor comes into play, there are a whole new set of rules. One reason among many why we were not interested in pursuing the license. The fire marshall made a B&B here sprinkler the property as a requirement of granting the liquor license. This was a totally new requirement.
You may not agree with it, but having someone on duty 24/7 if you have a liquor license and are serving alcohol is a requirement here. There are a bunch of other problems when you start serving alcohol. (I am not a teetotaler either. haha)
It's all about protecting guests and decreasing liability.
 

JunieBJones (JBJ)

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates did that mean he came by when both innkeepers (or is a sole innkeeper) were not there and the place was unattended?
I can see in this state that the law would be ONSITE when guests are checked in.
Just trying to get my head around this.
.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates (she) did that mean she came by when you both were not there and the place was unattended?
Just trying to get my head around this.
Yowza. Can you imagine. 24x7. No walks. No Starbucks. No popping next door to visit.
We do leave info for the guests to contact us in emergency if we have the temerity to think we should be able to leave the building at any time.

.
Bree said:
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates (she) did that mean she came by when you both were not there and the place was unattended?
Just trying to get my head around this.
Yowza. Can you imagine. 24x7. No walks. No Starbucks. No popping next door to visit.
We do leave info for the guests to contact us in emergency if we have the temerity to think we should be able to leave the building at any time.
The longer I am in this business the more I trust guests. Or shall I say the more I just do what I want to do. When aspiring 'guests' ask me about this, they cannot believe it. So if you attend church and have guests checked in you can never go? I think not. We do what we want to do, unless we have an uneasy feeling about a guest.
I always relate the story of how "trustworthy" I felt when I had a self check in and a note that said "Mr & Mrs JBJ. I took Sebastian to his tuba lessons and dinner. See you at breakfast" key enclosed for rm 3.
That is a true story, her young son played the tuba. I thought it was great, I was not there to get to know the innkeepers, her husband was out of town and she took Sebastian to tuba. Right on!
Sorry I am sidetracking...per usual.
 

egoodell

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Isn't your husband on the premises tho? Ie "Full time innkeeper" to satisfy the requirements?.
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
.
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates did that mean he came by when both innkeepers (or is a sole innkeeper) were not there and the place was unattended?
I can see in this state that the law would be ONSITE when guests are checked in.
Just trying to get my head around this.
.
JunieBJones (JBJ) said:
egoodell said:
No, he is not on the premises when guests are there 24/7. There are some days when our guests don't book the wine tours, and he is out all afternoon doing tours. This NEW agent claims that while a guest is registered, the innkeeper cannot leave the inn 24/7.
I think he is new and does not know that the B&B ABC license is different. For example, while a restaurant is open, they must always have an ABC manager on duty, yes. But that's a different license.
RIki
But vaguely that is what all of us are required for insurance purposes and health and safety. Saying you have a full time 100% innkeeper means they are on the premises. So if he saw a vehicle with NY plates (she) did that mean she came by when you both were not there and the place was unattended?
Just trying to get my head around this.
Yowza. Can you imagine. 24x7. No walks. No Starbucks. No popping next door to visit.
We do leave info for the guests to contact us in emergency if we have the temerity to think we should be able to leave the building at any time.

.
Well also, now that I think of it, we had the ABC talk at the Association Yearly Meeting when it was in Richmond a couple of years ago. No mention of this 24/7 at that time either.
Riki
 

EmptyNest

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I have never heard that rule either. I personally talked with our regions ABC rep and was at a meeting he spoke at and NEVER mentioned anything about that. I have a feeling that like health dept regs...each agent interprets to their own knowledge base. If I hear somehting different I will let you know.
 

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