Credit Card Solicitations - Do They Creep You Out?

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Generic

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When we decided to get a full credit card processing facility, three years ago, I called around to all the companies. The first call was to my bank's processor, where they told me it was $200 to open an account and I told them to go fly a kite. I kept on calling and got it down to $50 until I called Elavon, which was associated with Costco which charged me $0.
Since then, we have had a few companies call us, most of which are shot down instantly because they want an upfront fee and I don't want to pay it. (I pay Costco, but my Executive membership in fact pays back enough that it doesn't cost me a penny.)
Last year there was a company that beat everything that I have until they starting talking about the up front fee. Then they struck out.
Well, today my bank called me. They want my business back. They are willing to not charge me the upfront fee. They are offering a discount rate that is .10% lower than my current processor. The same rate for debit transactions, the same rate for Amex pass-through (though they have a better negotiated rate, if I don't want to do pass-through anymore, which might save 1% on my few Amex transactions). And a .30% upcharge for non-qualified transactions, which I'm curently paying .28%. So, where did we go wrong? Why haven't I switched? They want $21 more a month for the terminal... and it's essentially the same damn terminal with the different number on it. But $252 a year more just for the terminal.
And now, here is the point of this message... after each time that I speak to these credit card processors, I want to go up and take a shower, they make me feel I'm dealing with someone who is slimy and scummy. Like they are selling something but they don't want to be upfront about it. They want you to sign an agreement so that they can put up the rates. Like they want to take you for a ride, they want to rip you off. And it's always near the end of the conversation that you find that one catch where they want to charge you more money. Or is it just me?
 

Alibi Ike

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It's not just you. And it's worse when they show up at the door and start in on how much money they just saved the hotel next door. Well, guess what. The hotel next door gets better rates anyway because they're pulling in so much money! You charge $10000 for a wedding reception hall rental on a weekend I have a full house and you do 4 weddings, yeah you're making money and getting a better deal.
Go away. Leave me alone.
 

toddburme

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They know where their deal is worse so they avoid that bit of info at all cost. Thus the slimey feeling.
 

Breakfast Diva

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Are you leasing your terminal? It's much better to bite the bullet and buy one.
I agree with your assessment of the slime factor!
 

Generic

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Are you leasing your terminal? It's much better to bite the bullet and buy one.
I agree with your assessment of the slime factor!.
Breakfast Diva said:
Are you leasing your terminal? It's much better to bite the bullet and buy one.
I agree with your assessment of the slime factor!
Yeah, I'm leasing. It's a whole $7 a month. They didn't really offer the option of purchasing. And I would have had to pay again when they upgraded us to chip & pin anyway.
 

April

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I have same feeling. Have one company call me every 6 months and trying to convince me to go with them so I can save some money. They promise to give better rates. All sounds nice until suspicious me asked if I have to sign a contract for a specific term. And yes, you do have to. What they are not saying is that they have right to increase the rates during that time and if I do cancel before the term is over I need to compensate them. What kind of deal is it?!
 

Copperhead

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Let me see your last 4 processing statements and I will show you how I can save you money. Right!
You tell me all your rates - mid qual, non qual, etc... and ALL your fees and service charges or anything else that gets tacked onto my statement. I will look to see if you can save me money.
Don't call me, I'll call YOU! (maybe)
 

agoodman

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I used to sell credit card processing and yes we do need to see your statement to quote rates because rates are based not only on volume but on number of transactions and amount of transactions. 100 $25 transactions? 100 $2 transactions? 50 $150 transactions? 2 $5000 transactions. Would you be better tiered or on interchange plus.?
In the same way that the airlines will give you discounts if you book group travel, or hotels if you book group rooms, or stores if you purchase lots of the same items, cc processors need to know "how much are you buying" before they can quote yo (in most cases).
The reason rates may increase mid contract is because Visa/MC and NOT your processor control the rates and the processor has no control over these increases
Yes there are some pushy co's out there but you need to do your homework too and not just think everyone is trying to screw you over. They may VERY WELL save you some money every month. Save $50/mos and that a lot of buckeroos every year.
Take a look at companies like feefighters.com (No I am not associated with them but they DID help me get my rate lowered AND the PCI fee waived). I personally know 2 reps from different co's - one in GA and one in DC if anyone would like their contact details let me know - they will give you an honest review and the best rates they can
If you have not had a rate review in the last 2 years - do it.
 

April

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Let me see your last 4 processing statements and I will show you how I can save you money. Right!
You tell me all your rates - mid qual, non qual, etc... and ALL your fees and service charges or anything else that gets tacked onto my statement. I will look to see if you can save me money.
Don't call me, I'll call YOU! (maybe).
My feeling exactly.
 

April

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I used to sell credit card processing and yes we do need to see your statement to quote rates because rates are based not only on volume but on number of transactions and amount of transactions. 100 $25 transactions? 100 $2 transactions? 50 $150 transactions? 2 $5000 transactions. Would you be better tiered or on interchange plus.?
In the same way that the airlines will give you discounts if you book group travel, or hotels if you book group rooms, or stores if you purchase lots of the same items, cc processors need to know "how much are you buying" before they can quote yo (in most cases).
The reason rates may increase mid contract is because Visa/MC and NOT your processor control the rates and the processor has no control over these increases
Yes there are some pushy co's out there but you need to do your homework too and not just think everyone is trying to screw you over. They may VERY WELL save you some money every month. Save $50/mos and that a lot of buckeroos every year.
Take a look at companies like feefighters.com (No I am not associated with them but they DID help me get my rate lowered AND the PCI fee waived). I personally know 2 reps from different co's - one in GA and one in DC if anyone would like their contact details let me know - they will give you an honest review and the best rates they can
If you have not had a rate review in the last 2 years - do it..
I think that if they have a right to increase the rates I should have an option to break the contract without penalty.
 

birdwatcher

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we got hosed terribly when we owned our B & B-they pretty much charged us $5,000 to own the machine-it was a 4 year contract, we learned too late that it was a big trap and now there is a class action suit because they illegaly charged for late fees etc, we know we will never see any $$ come to us, but it makes us feel good that its happening.
This is my beef: Those companies that charge you for leasing or rent to "buy" your machine own all of them correct? So its like they are "letting" you use their terminal when it costs them NOTHING. Yup, like cell phone companies-you gotta sign a contract and if they decide to up your rate you have no recourse but to stay till your contract is done-we did away with that now we just put as much money as we think we will need on our cell phone the cell phone is a wopping $10-yes we pay alot for the bells and whistles-but honestly we dont use the phone unless we are out, and as you know we are innkeepers and we don't go "out" alot.
 

Flower

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But $252 a month more just for the terminal
I think you meant $252 a year.
Presume you pay the rental fee even for the months you have no business.
Are you happy with the service? Were there any surpises once it was all up & running?
Are you PIN & Chip compliant now?
 

agoodman

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NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one
 

Generic

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NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one.
agoodman said:
NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one
The only set fee that I pay is $7 a month and that includes the machine. I don't pay anything else, not a per transaction fee, not a gateway fee, nothing. And so far the other companies discount rates are within 1 base point (ie 0.10%) of what I pay. Not a foreign transaction fee.
We just changed all the machines in Canada to accept EMV (Chip & Pin). I would have needed to buy a new machine. It wasn't just a software update online, they changed the physical machine. Same model, very different software. I think they changed the ROM.
While the US is rejecting EMV, Visa just announced that they are going to push it and a few US banks have started to issue EMV cards. Add into that the fact that European banks can now remove tha magnetic stripes means that the US will eventually have no choice. I have American friends who are actually yelling at their bank because they can't get an EMV card. It's so much trouble in Europe without one.
In any case, in Canada, just so you understand, the CC machine works differently now. We have to hit 1 (for sale) and then we have to put in the amount. Only then can we swipe a card. If the card has EMV, I never touch the card. The client puts the card into the handset and follows the instructions on the screen, they then put in a PIN and it authorizes and prints for me a copy that says "Verified by PIN" and a copy for the client. If they don't have EMV, I then swipe the card and process the transaction with a signature. I am protected from fraud for all transactions with EMV. There are no chargebacks. I can't fake it and the client card can't be faked. There is no duplicating the EMV chip. So, I much rather process with EMV.
At restaurants in Canada, the restaurant will generally bring over a handheld unit to your table for you to put your card in and pay. They have a button for the tip % or if you prefer you can put in an amount for the tip. The server never touches your card if you have EMV. And they NEVER disappear with your card anymore.
 

Generic

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But $252 a month more just for the terminal
I think you meant $252 a year.
Presume you pay the rental fee even for the months you have no business.
Are you happy with the service? Were there any surpises once it was all up & running?
Are you PIN & Chip compliant now?.
Flower said:
...I think you meant $252 a year.
Presume you pay the rental fee even for the months you have no business.
Are you happy with the service? Were there any surpises once it was all up & running?
Are you PIN & Chip compliant now?
Sorry about that, yes $21 a month more for the terminal/monthly fee, so $252 a year. I currently pay $7 a month for the terminal/monthly fee.
I'm open all year and I have guests all year. But yet, I would have to pay that fee no matter what.
I've been very happy with Elavon. Customer service has been great. Not a single surprise. Worked well when we changed banks. Got Amex up and running in 3 minutes. Replaced all the equipement so that we are not Chip & PIN compliant. Never any funny fees. All 100% on the up and up. Sure, there are two features I would LOVE them to have, but nothing earth shattering. I would LOVE to be able to process in foreign currency for guests, so they are charged in their own currency if they wish (it's offered in Europe, but not here.) And I would LOVE to be able to actually offer a physical/safe gift card, but they don't do that or we are too small for that.
We are 100% EMV compliant (Chip & PIN) and that's really nice for the clients. The like being able to pay without handing over a card. It wasn't done as quickly as I would have liked, but we converted a lot faster than some of the other companies.
One of the reasons that I'm most reluctant to change is just how well this relationship has gone. Maybe it isn't the same for everyone, but the rates I'm getting offered now are really close to what I'm paying but seem to come with all kind of extra fees, none of which I'm paying. But I just find it slimey of my own bank to come to me, three years later trying to get my business NOW. This is the bank that holds my investment funds, my retirement funds, my mortgage, all my bank accounts, etc. (Heck, they fought tooth and nail to keep my mortgage this year when it came for renewal!) But when I wanted processing they tried to get me for a $200 fee and wouldn't negotiate. Now they want my business?
 

Alibi Ike

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NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one.
agoodman said:
NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one
The only set fee that I pay is $7 a month and that includes the machine. I don't pay anything else, not a per transaction fee, not a gateway fee, nothing. And so far the other companies discount rates are within 1 base point (ie 0.10%) of what I pay. Not a foreign transaction fee.
We just changed all the machines in Canada to accept EMV (Chip & Pin). I would have needed to buy a new machine. It wasn't just a software update online, they changed the physical machine. Same model, very different software. I think they changed the ROM.
While the US is rejecting EMV, Visa just announced that they are going to push it and a few US banks have started to issue EMV cards. Add into that the fact that European banks can now remove tha magnetic stripes means that the US will eventually have no choice. I have American friends who are actually yelling at their bank because they can't get an EMV card. It's so much trouble in Europe without one.
In any case, in Canada, just so you understand, the CC machine works differently now. We have to hit 1 (for sale) and then we have to put in the amount. Only then can we swipe a card. If the card has EMV, I never touch the card. The client puts the card into the handset and follows the instructions on the screen, they then put in a PIN and it authorizes and prints for me a copy that says "Verified by PIN" and a copy for the client. If they don't have EMV, I then swipe the card and process the transaction with a signature. I am protected from fraud for all transactions with EMV. There are no chargebacks. I can't fake it and the client card can't be faked. There is no duplicating the EMV chip. So, I much rather process with EMV.
At restaurants in Canada, the restaurant will generally bring over a handheld unit to your table for you to put your card in and pay. They have a button for the tip % or if you prefer you can put in an amount for the tip. The server never touches your card if you have EMV. And they NEVER disappear with your card anymore.
.
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
 

Generic

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NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one.
agoodman said:
NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one
The only set fee that I pay is $7 a month and that includes the machine. I don't pay anything else, not a per transaction fee, not a gateway fee, nothing. And so far the other companies discount rates are within 1 base point (ie 0.10%) of what I pay. Not a foreign transaction fee.
We just changed all the machines in Canada to accept EMV (Chip & Pin). I would have needed to buy a new machine. It wasn't just a software update online, they changed the physical machine. Same model, very different software. I think they changed the ROM.
While the US is rejecting EMV, Visa just announced that they are going to push it and a few US banks have started to issue EMV cards. Add into that the fact that European banks can now remove tha magnetic stripes means that the US will eventually have no choice. I have American friends who are actually yelling at their bank because they can't get an EMV card. It's so much trouble in Europe without one.
In any case, in Canada, just so you understand, the CC machine works differently now. We have to hit 1 (for sale) and then we have to put in the amount. Only then can we swipe a card. If the card has EMV, I never touch the card. The client puts the card into the handset and follows the instructions on the screen, they then put in a PIN and it authorizes and prints for me a copy that says "Verified by PIN" and a copy for the client. If they don't have EMV, I then swipe the card and process the transaction with a signature. I am protected from fraud for all transactions with EMV. There are no chargebacks. I can't fake it and the client card can't be faked. There is no duplicating the EMV chip. So, I much rather process with EMV.
At restaurants in Canada, the restaurant will generally bring over a handheld unit to your table for you to put your card in and pay. They have a button for the tip % or if you prefer you can put in an amount for the tip. The server never touches your card if you have EMV. And they NEVER disappear with your card anymore.
.
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
.
Alibi Ike said:
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
Yes, you can still process without the card. The thing is, the signature is supposed to be checked against the signature on the card. Well, with chip & pin there is no need, you can't get a "fake" signature. The chip & pin also reduce lost, counterfeit and stolen cards. All the counterfeit is magnetic stripe.
 

Alibi Ike

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NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one.
agoodman said:
NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one
The only set fee that I pay is $7 a month and that includes the machine. I don't pay anything else, not a per transaction fee, not a gateway fee, nothing. And so far the other companies discount rates are within 1 base point (ie 0.10%) of what I pay. Not a foreign transaction fee.
We just changed all the machines in Canada to accept EMV (Chip & Pin). I would have needed to buy a new machine. It wasn't just a software update online, they changed the physical machine. Same model, very different software. I think they changed the ROM.
While the US is rejecting EMV, Visa just announced that they are going to push it and a few US banks have started to issue EMV cards. Add into that the fact that European banks can now remove tha magnetic stripes means that the US will eventually have no choice. I have American friends who are actually yelling at their bank because they can't get an EMV card. It's so much trouble in Europe without one.
In any case, in Canada, just so you understand, the CC machine works differently now. We have to hit 1 (for sale) and then we have to put in the amount. Only then can we swipe a card. If the card has EMV, I never touch the card. The client puts the card into the handset and follows the instructions on the screen, they then put in a PIN and it authorizes and prints for me a copy that says "Verified by PIN" and a copy for the client. If they don't have EMV, I then swipe the card and process the transaction with a signature. I am protected from fraud for all transactions with EMV. There are no chargebacks. I can't fake it and the client card can't be faked. There is no duplicating the EMV chip. So, I much rather process with EMV.
At restaurants in Canada, the restaurant will generally bring over a handheld unit to your table for you to put your card in and pay. They have a button for the tip % or if you prefer you can put in an amount for the tip. The server never touches your card if you have EMV. And they NEVER disappear with your card anymore.
.
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
.
Alibi Ike said:
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
Yes, you can still process without the card. The thing is, the signature is supposed to be checked against the signature on the card. Well, with chip & pin there is no need, you can't get a "fake" signature. The chip & pin also reduce lost, counterfeit and stolen cards. All the counterfeit is magnetic stripe.
.
Eric Arthur Blair said:
Alibi Ike said:
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
Yes, you can still process without the card. The thing is, the signature is supposed to be checked against the signature on the card. Well, with chip & pin there is no need, you can't get a "fake" signature. The chip & pin also reduce lost, counterfeit and stolen cards. All the counterfeit is magnetic stripe.
Here's what cracks me up about the cashier at the store asking to see my credit card after I swipe it myself...there are people who are trained, handwriting experts who hem and haw about whether or not a signature 'matches' and yet, these 16 yo kids can tell if it's 'really' my sig on the slip and not just a clever imitation.
And then there are my friends whose cc was apparently 'recreated' and used to buy tons of electronics at a store far away from where they live. They contested the charges and they were told 'we have a sig on the receipt, you own the charges.' They sent a copy of the back of their card (the sig line) and it wasn't even close to what the processor had on the receipt. 'You faked it. You own the charges.'
The cc company would not back down. They insisted my friends pay this outrageous bill. I do not know how it played out other than after awhile they canceled the card because they wouldn't trust that particular card company again.
 

Generic

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NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one.
agoodman said:
NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one
The only set fee that I pay is $7 a month and that includes the machine. I don't pay anything else, not a per transaction fee, not a gateway fee, nothing. And so far the other companies discount rates are within 1 base point (ie 0.10%) of what I pay. Not a foreign transaction fee.
We just changed all the machines in Canada to accept EMV (Chip & Pin). I would have needed to buy a new machine. It wasn't just a software update online, they changed the physical machine. Same model, very different software. I think they changed the ROM.
While the US is rejecting EMV, Visa just announced that they are going to push it and a few US banks have started to issue EMV cards. Add into that the fact that European banks can now remove tha magnetic stripes means that the US will eventually have no choice. I have American friends who are actually yelling at their bank because they can't get an EMV card. It's so much trouble in Europe without one.
In any case, in Canada, just so you understand, the CC machine works differently now. We have to hit 1 (for sale) and then we have to put in the amount. Only then can we swipe a card. If the card has EMV, I never touch the card. The client puts the card into the handset and follows the instructions on the screen, they then put in a PIN and it authorizes and prints for me a copy that says "Verified by PIN" and a copy for the client. If they don't have EMV, I then swipe the card and process the transaction with a signature. I am protected from fraud for all transactions with EMV. There are no chargebacks. I can't fake it and the client card can't be faked. There is no duplicating the EMV chip. So, I much rather process with EMV.
At restaurants in Canada, the restaurant will generally bring over a handheld unit to your table for you to put your card in and pay. They have a button for the tip % or if you prefer you can put in an amount for the tip. The server never touches your card if you have EMV. And they NEVER disappear with your card anymore.
.
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
.
Alibi Ike said:
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
Yes, you can still process without the card. The thing is, the signature is supposed to be checked against the signature on the card. Well, with chip & pin there is no need, you can't get a "fake" signature. The chip & pin also reduce lost, counterfeit and stolen cards. All the counterfeit is magnetic stripe.
.
Eric Arthur Blair said:
Alibi Ike said:
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
Yes, you can still process without the card. The thing is, the signature is supposed to be checked against the signature on the card. Well, with chip & pin there is no need, you can't get a "fake" signature. The chip & pin also reduce lost, counterfeit and stolen cards. All the counterfeit is magnetic stripe.
Here's what cracks me up about the cashier at the store asking to see my credit card after I swipe it myself...there are people who are trained, handwriting experts who hem and haw about whether or not a signature 'matches' and yet, these 16 yo kids can tell if it's 'really' my sig on the slip and not just a clever imitation.
And then there are my friends whose cc was apparently 'recreated' and used to buy tons of electronics at a store far away from where they live. They contested the charges and they were told 'we have a sig on the receipt, you own the charges.' They sent a copy of the back of their card (the sig line) and it wasn't even close to what the processor had on the receipt. 'You faked it. You own the charges.'
The cc company would not back down. They insisted my friends pay this outrageous bill. I do not know how it played out other than after awhile they canceled the card because they wouldn't trust that particular card company again.
.
Alibi Ike said:
Here's what cracks me up about the cashier at the store asking to see my credit card after I swipe it myself...there are people who are trained, handwriting experts who hem and haw about whether or not a signature 'matches' and yet, these 16 yo kids can tell if it's 'really' my sig on the slip and not just a clever imitation.
And then there are my friends whose cc was apparently 'recreated' and used to buy tons of electronics at a store far away from where they live. They contested the charges and they were told 'we have a sig on the receipt, you own the charges.' They sent a copy of the back of their card (the sig line) and it wasn't even close to what the processor had on the receipt. 'You faked it. You own the charges.'
The cc company would not back down. They insisted my friends pay this outrageous bill. I do not know how it played out other than after awhile they canceled the card because they wouldn't trust that particular card company again.
Well, no need to check the signature with the PIN. And only mag stripe transactions are basically at risk.
Some businesses are reluctant to change... why? Because they process the CC on the cash registers and they keep the numbers and track your purchases. Well, that's going to end and they can't do it anymore. And gone are the days of the restaurant running off with your card for 15 minutes. Or the guy who puts a skimmer in front of the ATM.
As for having my card cloned... I've had it happen with bother MC and Amex. Amex caught it, called me to tell me and issued a replacement card before I even knew it. As for MC, it has happened twice. One time they suspended the card but didn't call me and I had to call to find out why my transactions weren't working. The other time we know EXACTLY where the number was cloned from... Hannaford Supermarket in the US, owned by Delhaize Group. Their computers were broken into and they had the numbers stored, in spite of the fact that they aren't supposed to. Funny, how many companies have the numbers stored even though they aren't supposed to store them, are supposed to remove them from the database, etc.
To the US it doesn't matter what cards we take, but we very much prefer to pay in CASH now, simply because every time we have had an incident, it has been in the US. To Europe was simply take EMV cards. We have seen Americans trying to use their cards in Europe and it's usually funny/sad because you have to tell them to go see a cashier, that they can't use the automated machine, can't rent a bicycle, can't pay the meter. In many countries, the automated machines use EMV only. There is no mag stripe reader.
 

Alibi Ike

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NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one.
agoodman said:
NEVER lease a cc machine
You can buy one for 300. Period. Less on up ebay (and most only take a software upgrade which should be free from your cc processor) to make them PCI compliant but you would have to do your homework. If you are correctly set up as "lodging" and not retail be careful because not all terminals work for lodging
You do not "have to" lease one, it's a choice. Like a car. You can lease it and or buy it but YOU make the choice. Don't blame the cc company for a choice YOU make
Negotiate enough and you may even get a free one
The only set fee that I pay is $7 a month and that includes the machine. I don't pay anything else, not a per transaction fee, not a gateway fee, nothing. And so far the other companies discount rates are within 1 base point (ie 0.10%) of what I pay. Not a foreign transaction fee.
We just changed all the machines in Canada to accept EMV (Chip & Pin). I would have needed to buy a new machine. It wasn't just a software update online, they changed the physical machine. Same model, very different software. I think they changed the ROM.
While the US is rejecting EMV, Visa just announced that they are going to push it and a few US banks have started to issue EMV cards. Add into that the fact that European banks can now remove tha magnetic stripes means that the US will eventually have no choice. I have American friends who are actually yelling at their bank because they can't get an EMV card. It's so much trouble in Europe without one.
In any case, in Canada, just so you understand, the CC machine works differently now. We have to hit 1 (for sale) and then we have to put in the amount. Only then can we swipe a card. If the card has EMV, I never touch the card. The client puts the card into the handset and follows the instructions on the screen, they then put in a PIN and it authorizes and prints for me a copy that says "Verified by PIN" and a copy for the client. If they don't have EMV, I then swipe the card and process the transaction with a signature. I am protected from fraud for all transactions with EMV. There are no chargebacks. I can't fake it and the client card can't be faked. There is no duplicating the EMV chip. So, I much rather process with EMV.
At restaurants in Canada, the restaurant will generally bring over a handheld unit to your table for you to put your card in and pay. They have a button for the tip % or if you prefer you can put in an amount for the tip. The server never touches your card if you have EMV. And they NEVER disappear with your card anymore.
.
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
.
Alibi Ike said:
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
Yes, you can still process without the card. The thing is, the signature is supposed to be checked against the signature on the card. Well, with chip & pin there is no need, you can't get a "fake" signature. The chip & pin also reduce lost, counterfeit and stolen cards. All the counterfeit is magnetic stripe.
.
Eric Arthur Blair said:
Alibi Ike said:
You can still do transactions like deposits where the card isn't present, correct?
We don't lease our machine but our processor guarantees we will have one by overnight mail if this one goes bad. Yes, I have to pay the shipping, but I don't have to pay for the new machine. We've replaced it once.
Yes, you can still process without the card. The thing is, the signature is supposed to be checked against the signature on the card. Well, with chip & pin there is no need, you can't get a "fake" signature. The chip & pin also reduce lost, counterfeit and stolen cards. All the counterfeit is magnetic stripe.
Here's what cracks me up about the cashier at the store asking to see my credit card after I swipe it myself...there are people who are trained, handwriting experts who hem and haw about whether or not a signature 'matches' and yet, these 16 yo kids can tell if it's 'really' my sig on the slip and not just a clever imitation.
And then there are my friends whose cc was apparently 'recreated' and used to buy tons of electronics at a store far away from where they live. They contested the charges and they were told 'we have a sig on the receipt, you own the charges.' They sent a copy of the back of their card (the sig line) and it wasn't even close to what the processor had on the receipt. 'You faked it. You own the charges.'
The cc company would not back down. They insisted my friends pay this outrageous bill. I do not know how it played out other than after awhile they canceled the card because they wouldn't trust that particular card company again.
.
Alibi Ike said:
Here's what cracks me up about the cashier at the store asking to see my credit card after I swipe it myself...there are people who are trained, handwriting experts who hem and haw about whether or not a signature 'matches' and yet, these 16 yo kids can tell if it's 'really' my sig on the slip and not just a clever imitation.
And then there are my friends whose cc was apparently 'recreated' and used to buy tons of electronics at a store far away from where they live. They contested the charges and they were told 'we have a sig on the receipt, you own the charges.' They sent a copy of the back of their card (the sig line) and it wasn't even close to what the processor had on the receipt. 'You faked it. You own the charges.'
The cc company would not back down. They insisted my friends pay this outrageous bill. I do not know how it played out other than after awhile they canceled the card because they wouldn't trust that particular card company again.
Well, no need to check the signature with the PIN. And only mag stripe transactions are basically at risk.
Some businesses are reluctant to change... why? Because they process the CC on the cash registers and they keep the numbers and track your purchases. Well, that's going to end and they can't do it anymore. And gone are the days of the restaurant running off with your card for 15 minutes. Or the guy who puts a skimmer in front of the ATM.
As for having my card cloned... I've had it happen with bother MC and Amex. Amex caught it, called me to tell me and issued a replacement card before I even knew it. As for MC, it has happened twice. One time they suspended the card but didn't call me and I had to call to find out why my transactions weren't working. The other time we know EXACTLY where the number was cloned from... Hannaford Supermarket in the US, owned by Delhaize Group. Their computers were broken into and they had the numbers stored, in spite of the fact that they aren't supposed to. Funny, how many companies have the numbers stored even though they aren't supposed to store them, are supposed to remove them from the database, etc.
To the US it doesn't matter what cards we take, but we very much prefer to pay in CASH now, simply because every time we have had an incident, it has been in the US. To Europe was simply take EMV cards. We have seen Americans trying to use their cards in Europe and it's usually funny/sad because you have to tell them to go see a cashier, that they can't use the automated machine, can't rent a bicycle, can't pay the meter. In many countries, the automated machines use EMV only. There is no mag stripe reader.
.
That Hannaford situtaion wasn't so much that they were storing the info as software had been installed in their data transaction system that was recording every card and every check that was run thru every machine before it was sent to the cc processor. Essentially, a skimmer but software instead of hardware.
I rarely use a cc at any of the TJ Maxx brand stores anymore because of this being rampant there. And it's obvious, given the 8 declined cards I've had in the past 5 weeks that the problem is big.
I had the same experience trying to use my cc to make a phone call in France. I had to go buy a phone card. I was watching people popping their cc's into the phones with no problem. Not mine. Of course, today I probably couldn't find a pay phone in France!
 
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