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Discounts for neat and tidy guests who don't smoke

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JBloggs

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From an email today "Is there any kind of discount if you stay for a week? my sister and I are looking for a decent place in the area to stay, but cannot afford $100 per night. Am looking for AARP or senior discounts. We are very neat and clean and do not smoke. We are coming in late August to visit family in the area.
She is retired and I am unemployed presently as so manyof us are right now. Just looking for a good deal if there is one available.
Thank you"
FYI We are celebrating 20 years as a B&B in 2010 and are offering a midweek special of $20 off per night, me thinks this is pretty dang good. Apparently not good enough for the "neat and clean and do not smoke" unlike our normal rowdy dirty smokers we get. LOL I referred her to this very good special.
 

Morticia

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This gets me. Sorry, but if you can afford to go on a week-long vacation where you have to travel to the location, eat your meals out, pay for your entertainment, do NOT weep on MY shoulder about how tough times are. Stay home.
 

sandynn

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I think $20 is more than enough. I have people that tell me after I tell them the price that they were hoping not to pay that much. I just say I am very sorry. I am thinking of saying my gift to my guests is that I have not raised my prices in several years.
Most of my guests are very neat and don't smoke. I can't pay my bills on giving everyone a discount. I had a guy that told me he thought because I was not fullly booked I would be happy to have him at a much lower price. I told him that was a misconception that we as innkeeper should be happy to give big discounts if we are slow.
I would like to raise prices but we are on the top of all around and I don't think I can at this point.
 

Don Draper

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*sigh* I guess you can't fault them for asking, but it just irritates me. I don't go to the movie theatre and ask if I can have a discounted ticket because no one else is seeing that particular movie at that particular time.
But sometimes it really is just about perception, and actually pointing out your discount can be enough to make them feel like they are getting "a deal". Unfortunately we've found through our own experience here that these folks aren't usually happy even with a discount, they always make you feel like "What do I get for staying here? Why is it so much?" You either get why a b&b is more, or you don't.
 

happykeeper

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We talk about this on often. We are always ready to help folks find the right place for their budget. We're happy, they're happy, and the world is a happier place.
 

wendydk

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option.
 

Innkeeper To Go

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Maybe this could be your chance to try out your locked and loaded special. If they really really want a discount, fine. Pay in advance, no cancellations, no exceptions.
That is, if you feel inclined to offer them any discount at all. Won't August be a busy time for you?
 

Don Draper

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Wow, I totally missed the August part of that original post...I can MAYBE see trying to get a discount for a last-minute getaway but to try to get a discount almost a year in advance??? No way.
 

Morticia

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
As an aside, I would never make a guest feel like they were poor if they couldn't afford to pay my rates. I would refer them to my comp who charges $95/night.
I should have expanded on my original statement...I personally cannot afford a week's vacation. Guess what? I stay home. I don't grovel at someone's doorstep to take me in at a discount. I don't make the assumption that everyone else out there is poor like me and would take whatever I want to pay, I assume their prices are what their prices are and they are that for a reason.
I couch surf when I want to get away. (Or, like a few weeks ago, I go with friends who chip in toward the room.) Or I travel off season when rates are generally lower. But I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford. I might, however, go for 4 days instead of 7. (I'm not above asking for a reciprocal discount at another lodging property.)
I'm in the wrong business...ha, ha...I think people who are unemployed and on the edge should be looking for work and pinching pennies. I don't think they should be begging for a vacation. Are they going to do the same thing at the restaurants? 'Hi, we can't afford this prime rib, but we want it anyway. How about we pay you $5 for that?'
I think pointing them to the $20 off discount and reiterating what all is included in the price is excellent marketing.
We're lucky in that we know a lot of innkeepers now who have offered us 'a place at the inn' if we can travel to their locations. I thank them one and all. For once in my life I have 'an uncle in the biz.'
 

JBloggs

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
Where did you read they were paying $100 a night? They said they can't afford $100 per night. So reading between the lines if you were to find out it would be one of those $50 or less a night requests. $700 is not what they are offering to pay. UGH!
 

JBloggs

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Maybe this could be your chance to try out your locked and loaded special. If they really really want a discount, fine. Pay in advance, no cancellations, no exceptions.
That is, if you feel inclined to offer them any discount at all. Won't August be a busy time for you?.
Innkeeper To Go said:
Maybe this could be your chance to try out your locked and loaded special. If they really really want a discount, fine. Pay in advance, no cancellations, no exceptions.
That is, if you feel inclined to offer them any discount at all. Won't August be a busy time for you?
oh yeah the locked and loaded, prepay with a check in full no cancellation at any time granny. Yes August is in season, not out. :)
 

JBloggs

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
As an aside, I would never make a guest feel like they were poor if they couldn't afford to pay my rates. I would refer them to my comp who charges $95/night.
I should have expanded on my original statement...I personally cannot afford a week's vacation. Guess what? I stay home. I don't grovel at someone's doorstep to take me in at a discount. I don't make the assumption that everyone else out there is poor like me and would take whatever I want to pay, I assume their prices are what their prices are and they are that for a reason.
I couch surf when I want to get away. (Or, like a few weeks ago, I go with friends who chip in toward the room.) Or I travel off season when rates are generally lower. But I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford. I might, however, go for 4 days instead of 7. (I'm not above asking for a reciprocal discount at another lodging property.)
I'm in the wrong business...ha, ha...I think people who are unemployed and on the edge should be looking for work and pinching pennies. I don't think they should be begging for a vacation. Are they going to do the same thing at the restaurants? 'Hi, we can't afford this prime rib, but we want it anyway. How about we pay you $5 for that?'
I think pointing them to the $20 off discount and reiterating what all is included in the price is excellent marketing.
We're lucky in that we know a lot of innkeepers now who have offered us 'a place at the inn' if we can travel to their locations. I thank them one and all. For once in my life I have 'an uncle in the biz.'
.
Bree your response brought me to a deja vu. You responded this way before and I just remembered someone else asking this same thing, I wonder if it is the same person? It was a tear jerker email and they are coming to visit family and she is unemployed and really wants a nice play to stay etc. I may have posted it on here!!!
Stay with your family!
You know I had locals once say to me - a teacher no less: "We don't stay at B&B's or hotels, we have family" as a dig. They think we only host the orphans I suppose.
 

Morticia

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
Where did you read they were paying $100 a night? They said they can't afford $100 per night. So reading between the lines if you were to find out it would be one of those $50 or less a night requests. $700 is not what they are offering to pay. UGH!
.
What is kind of surprising is that there is a cheapo hotel nearby isn't there? They could get a room for $81/night, including continental brek. So, if they have done any checking it means they can't pay even THAT amount for a room.
 

Morticia

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
As an aside, I would never make a guest feel like they were poor if they couldn't afford to pay my rates. I would refer them to my comp who charges $95/night.
I should have expanded on my original statement...I personally cannot afford a week's vacation. Guess what? I stay home. I don't grovel at someone's doorstep to take me in at a discount. I don't make the assumption that everyone else out there is poor like me and would take whatever I want to pay, I assume their prices are what their prices are and they are that for a reason.
I couch surf when I want to get away. (Or, like a few weeks ago, I go with friends who chip in toward the room.) Or I travel off season when rates are generally lower. But I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford. I might, however, go for 4 days instead of 7. (I'm not above asking for a reciprocal discount at another lodging property.)
I'm in the wrong business...ha, ha...I think people who are unemployed and on the edge should be looking for work and pinching pennies. I don't think they should be begging for a vacation. Are they going to do the same thing at the restaurants? 'Hi, we can't afford this prime rib, but we want it anyway. How about we pay you $5 for that?'
I think pointing them to the $20 off discount and reiterating what all is included in the price is excellent marketing.
We're lucky in that we know a lot of innkeepers now who have offered us 'a place at the inn' if we can travel to their locations. I thank them one and all. For once in my life I have 'an uncle in the biz.'
.
Bree your response brought me to a deja vu. You responded this way before and I just remembered someone else asking this same thing, I wonder if it is the same person? It was a tear jerker email and they are coming to visit family and she is unemployed and really wants a nice play to stay etc. I may have posted it on here!!!
Stay with your family!
You know I had locals once say to me - a teacher no less: "We don't stay at B&B's or hotels, we have family" as a dig. They think we only host the orphans I suppose.
.
Ah yes, I didn't notice that before, they are coming to visit family. They could alternate, a few days with family and a few days with you.
 

JBloggs

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
Where did you read they were paying $100 a night? They said they can't afford $100 per night. So reading between the lines if you were to find out it would be one of those $50 or less a night requests. $700 is not what they are offering to pay. UGH!
.
What is kind of surprising is that there is a cheapo hotel nearby isn't there? They could get a room for $81/night, including continental brek. So, if they have done any checking it means they can't pay even THAT amount for a room.
.
Bree said:
What is kind of surprising is that there is a cheapo hotel nearby isn't there? They could get a room for $81/night, including continental brek. So, if they have done any checking it means they can't pay even THAT amount for a room.
There are plenty of fleabag motels on the highway not far from us. The thing is they want to stay in a nice B&B and want a break, it is that simple. They figured it couldn't hurt to ask. No biggee, I just found it funny.
Maybe they could work for a room, clean and make up all our rooms for the week! me says after wiping down baseboards on my hands and knees in one room this morning - wide victorian baseboards - sot there are like 6 levels of grooves for dust to collect, actually these right here - exactly:

 

wendydk

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
As an aside, I would never make a guest feel like they were poor if they couldn't afford to pay my rates. I would refer them to my comp who charges $95/night.
I should have expanded on my original statement...I personally cannot afford a week's vacation. Guess what? I stay home. I don't grovel at someone's doorstep to take me in at a discount. I don't make the assumption that everyone else out there is poor like me and would take whatever I want to pay, I assume their prices are what their prices are and they are that for a reason.
I couch surf when I want to get away. (Or, like a few weeks ago, I go with friends who chip in toward the room.) Or I travel off season when rates are generally lower. But I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford. I might, however, go for 4 days instead of 7. (I'm not above asking for a reciprocal discount at another lodging property.)
I'm in the wrong business...ha, ha...I think people who are unemployed and on the edge should be looking for work and pinching pennies. I don't think they should be begging for a vacation. Are they going to do the same thing at the restaurants? 'Hi, we can't afford this prime rib, but we want it anyway. How about we pay you $5 for that?'
I think pointing them to the $20 off discount and reiterating what all is included in the price is excellent marketing.
We're lucky in that we know a lot of innkeepers now who have offered us 'a place at the inn' if we can travel to their locations. I thank them one and all. For once in my life I have 'an uncle in the biz.'
.
Bree said:
I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford.
Pretty much up to them to decide if they can or cannot afford it or not, and up to the individual innkeepers to decide they would starve for saying yes. $700.00 for a week at the end of August would certainly not be taking food out of MY mouth (given my historical occupancies for that week or so every year), but just might buy the month's groceries. Guests have no idea which Innkeepers that may be the case for, so they have to call around to find out. While you might not appreciate those calls, I do.
If an Inn is sitting pretty, up in revenues and/or occupancy, and kicking the competition's butt (or are down but can afford to ride it out) then the keeper can "just say no" and generously refer the budget travelers to the competition. What if cost-concious travelers became your area's demographic throughout the recession and beyond? If a particular Inn's occupancies are down (and down long enough), and most callers are asking for a discount, then it's time to reconsider demographic, rates, amenities, everything. After all, pride goeth before a fall.
If you don't like the ones that ask for discounts, tweak your marketing to appeal to the more affluent traveler or post on your website "NO DISCOUNTS FOR ANYONE, EVER, FOR ANY REASON. IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT, AND IT'S JUST GOING TO MAKE ME MAD".
That will get rid of the cheapskates, and you won't have to be offended by their calling.
 

EmptyNest

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
As an aside, I would never make a guest feel like they were poor if they couldn't afford to pay my rates. I would refer them to my comp who charges $95/night.
I should have expanded on my original statement...I personally cannot afford a week's vacation. Guess what? I stay home. I don't grovel at someone's doorstep to take me in at a discount. I don't make the assumption that everyone else out there is poor like me and would take whatever I want to pay, I assume their prices are what their prices are and they are that for a reason.
I couch surf when I want to get away. (Or, like a few weeks ago, I go with friends who chip in toward the room.) Or I travel off season when rates are generally lower. But I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford. I might, however, go for 4 days instead of 7. (I'm not above asking for a reciprocal discount at another lodging property.)
I'm in the wrong business...ha, ha...I think people who are unemployed and on the edge should be looking for work and pinching pennies. I don't think they should be begging for a vacation. Are they going to do the same thing at the restaurants? 'Hi, we can't afford this prime rib, but we want it anyway. How about we pay you $5 for that?'
I think pointing them to the $20 off discount and reiterating what all is included in the price is excellent marketing.
We're lucky in that we know a lot of innkeepers now who have offered us 'a place at the inn' if we can travel to their locations. I thank them one and all. For once in my life I have 'an uncle in the biz.'
.
Bree said:
I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford.
Pretty much up to them to decide if they can or cannot afford it or not, and up to the individual innkeepers to decide they would starve for saying yes. $700.00 for a week at the end of August would certainly not be taking food out of MY mouth (given my historical occupancies for that week or so every year), but just might buy the month's groceries. Guests have no idea which Innkeepers that may be the case for, so they have to call around to find out. While you might not appreciate those calls, I do.
If an Inn is sitting pretty, up in revenues and/or occupancy, and kicking the competition's butt (or are down but can afford to ride it out) then the keeper can "just say no" and generously refer the budget travelers to the competition. What if cost-concious travelers became your area's demographic throughout the recession and beyond? If a particular Inn's occupancies are down (and down long enough), and most callers are asking for a discount, then it's time to reconsider demographic, rates, amenities, everything. After all, pride goeth before a fall.
If you don't like the ones that ask for discounts, tweak your marketing to appeal to the more affluent traveler or post on your website "NO DISCOUNTS FOR ANYONE, EVER, FOR ANY REASON. IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT, AND IT'S JUST GOING TO MAKE ME MAD".
That will get rid of the cheapskates, and you won't have to be offended by their calling.
.
Guess you missed what she said. They did not want to pay $100 a night...MUCH LESS...like maybe $50. Would you take them for $50 a night. I sure would not! I don't care if all my rooms were sitting empty. My time and effort is worth WAY MORE THAN THAT. If you want to give your rooms away...so be it. I would not.
 

wendydk

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Chances are good they will find someone who would jump at it. If I have the room, and it wouldn't be filled at full price, I would take the $700.00...but then my highest rates are lower than the lowest rates of many Inns. On top of that, I myself never pay more than $100 per night when I travel....could be why I always pick the smallest owner-run Inns.
So, just say no graciously if you can't do it, you shouldn't get mad at people for asking or take it personally, not in this economy. $700 is alot of money to me; if I was willing to spend that for lodging on vacation, and an innkeeper said or acted like "if you can't afford to stay with me, stay home", I would say "no, I'm going on vacation, but will stay with someone else".
At least they are considering B&B's as a lodging option..
As an aside, I would never make a guest feel like they were poor if they couldn't afford to pay my rates. I would refer them to my comp who charges $95/night.
I should have expanded on my original statement...I personally cannot afford a week's vacation. Guess what? I stay home. I don't grovel at someone's doorstep to take me in at a discount. I don't make the assumption that everyone else out there is poor like me and would take whatever I want to pay, I assume their prices are what their prices are and they are that for a reason.
I couch surf when I want to get away. (Or, like a few weeks ago, I go with friends who chip in toward the room.) Or I travel off season when rates are generally lower. But I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford. I might, however, go for 4 days instead of 7. (I'm not above asking for a reciprocal discount at another lodging property.)
I'm in the wrong business...ha, ha...I think people who are unemployed and on the edge should be looking for work and pinching pennies. I don't think they should be begging for a vacation. Are they going to do the same thing at the restaurants? 'Hi, we can't afford this prime rib, but we want it anyway. How about we pay you $5 for that?'
I think pointing them to the $20 off discount and reiterating what all is included in the price is excellent marketing.
We're lucky in that we know a lot of innkeepers now who have offered us 'a place at the inn' if we can travel to their locations. I thank them one and all. For once in my life I have 'an uncle in the biz.'
.
Bree said:
I wouldn't take the bread out of an innkeeper's mouth so I could have a vacation I cannot afford.
Pretty much up to them to decide if they can or cannot afford it or not, and up to the individual innkeepers to decide they would starve for saying yes. $700.00 for a week at the end of August would certainly not be taking food out of MY mouth (given my historical occupancies for that week or so every year), but just might buy the month's groceries. Guests have no idea which Innkeepers that may be the case for, so they have to call around to find out. While you might not appreciate those calls, I do.
If an Inn is sitting pretty, up in revenues and/or occupancy, and kicking the competition's butt (or are down but can afford to ride it out) then the keeper can "just say no" and generously refer the budget travelers to the competition. What if cost-concious travelers became your area's demographic throughout the recession and beyond? If a particular Inn's occupancies are down (and down long enough), and most callers are asking for a discount, then it's time to reconsider demographic, rates, amenities, everything. After all, pride goeth before a fall.
If you don't like the ones that ask for discounts, tweak your marketing to appeal to the more affluent traveler or post on your website "NO DISCOUNTS FOR ANYONE, EVER, FOR ANY REASON. IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT, AND IT'S JUST GOING TO MAKE ME MAD".
That will get rid of the cheapskates, and you won't have to be offended by their calling.
.
Guess you missed what she said. They did not want to pay $100 a night...MUCH LESS...like maybe $50. Would you take them for $50 a night. I sure would not! I don't care if all my rooms were sitting empty. My time and effort is worth WAY MORE THAN THAT. If you want to give your rooms away...so be it. I would not.
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I am giving away rooms this month, and it's a purposeful part of our annual marketing strategy. November is our slowest month...last year was the first year of this special, and we did twice what we normally do in November (revenue and occupancies). This November, we're already up 50% over last November. The hubs is hunting most of the month, and I would just be sitting around with nothing to do. This special will bring in around $2000 in revenue, so is well worth my while to do. There are very few three room inns that do our revenues or seasonal occupancies, so don't get the impression that I'm easy or a doormat....just a smart marketer and flexible with my guests and policies. Even more than smarts, flexibility is the key for any business owner.
There is no way I would take this kind of rate during high season...not for any length of stay or reason. I really could just rest on my laurels and sit here stiff and proud all this month with no business, saying "I'm worth more than that, so I won't give in to anyone". No doubt many of you would applaud that, and I know my rooms and efforts are worth more, but I would be sitting here alone with my pride and no revenue, and that's just not my style.
I rarely get people who ask for a discount, so maybe I have no room to speak on the subject. But if suddenly low occupancies or discount-mongering became a real problem for me, I would find out why and fix it...but that's just me!
 

JBloggs

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okay let's try to not throw digs in here please
 
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