Thoughts on the TA Webinar

[Morticia]

That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..

I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry

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A bad review can be pulled off by the author. I do know of inns who contacted the origin of a bad review and after talking with them it turned out that it was not really anything the inn did or didn't do, just a bad weekend, and the guest was thoughtful enough to pull the review. It happens.
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"A bad review can be pulled off by the author."
Only if the guest does it of their own volition.
"I do know of inns who contacted the origin of a bad review and after talking with them it turned out that it was not really anything the inn did or didn't do, just a bad weekend, and the guest was thoughtful enough to pull the review. It happens."
That is a violation of the guidelines. I know of a local innkeeper who badgered a guest for a week with emails, phone calls, etc. until she relented and yanked her review. Who knows how many others received that treatment over the years since that innkeeper started jaking the system.
As with all the discussions about TA I've seen and participated in on various forums, TA IS NOT OURS TO MANIPULATE OR MESS WITH FOR OWN ENDS.
This is a free, golden goose, we all should be affording a lot more respect towards. Guests included.
When it goes punitive and not helpful by guests, they should have their motives questioned and when we try to hijack it out of self-interest, we risk damaging its integrity.
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An innkeeper on here did the same thing...hounded a person thru their account on TA. The reviewer compained and TA disallowed access between the innkeeper's account and the guest's. (At least the innkeeper said her emails were no longer going thru.) As the innkeeper did not know (but thought she did) who wrote the review she proceeded to hound her thru her personal email account.
I didn't read any of the directions except for how to post a response. I was going to contact one guest who said the beds were horribly uncomfortable to find out which room she was in in case something was broken but it was summer and no one else complained so I assumed this was a 'princess and the pea' kind of person who only likes her own bed. I would have used the online system to do that because I didn't know who it was. Now I know- stay away from the online email system!

 

[Tim_Toad_HLB]

I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..

The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.

I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.

The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.

Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.

Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
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"but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers."
Shorten your cancellation periods to match hotels, offer instant online reservations with no pre-screening to make sure the guest is a good match for your property and amenities, offer rooms on the same portals as hotels, offer discounts and specials just like hotels, hound guests for reviews just like hotels, mass market to guests just hotels do, etc.....
To be perfectly glib and frank, if it walks and talks like a hotel, it will eventually become like a hotel.
"Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?"
Because the small, modern, professionally run B&B is a relative newcomer to the lodging world as compared to the corporately owned and heavily marketed world of hotels and motels.
The sheer independence of and small size of B&Bs puts them at an extraordinary exposure and organizing disadvantage compared to the mega chains, multi-national hosptaility corporations, hotel associations, giant hospitality focused advertising firms, etc.

 

[Iris]

That was my impression as well. You had to be a PAII member to attend. First of all it was very controlled. TA stated that they knew many of us just wished they would go away and THEY'RE NOT. They also acknowledged that many of us have issues with them but rather than discuss them, they wanted to keep it educational which means push their partnership program. I thought it was also interesting that they referred to themselves as "THE 800 LB. GORILLA". I guess if we weren't intimidated by them already, that was supposed to do it. It gives some insight into what Jay is up against in trying to represent us and why he wants to increase the size of the organization.
They did allow a few questions at the end. I don't know where they came from because my setup had no means for asking a question. I felt some were poorly worded and the person running it didn't even know what the person asking the question meant. That was a wasted opportunity, because then of course the TA people didn't know how to answer it properly.
One was "One person has had a negative review on your site for over a year." I guess the question was how long would it stay on there and the answer was FOREVER.
Another was "How to handle a person threatening blackmail through a bad review if their demands weren't met." TA's response was not to give in but then they tried to down play it by saying often people threaten and then don't follow through.
What burned me up the most is their stubborn stance about NEVER removing a negative review. They keep telling us that we should be satisfied with the Management Response. Well, I for one, am not..

I have two pretty incredibly bad review on there. Of course the people that post them, are too chicken to say who they are, so there's no way, if the complaints are legitimate, to compensate the guest, etc.
I didn't know that there's a way to respond to any reviews. I need to take another look at that.
Essentially what just happened here was me, thinking out loud. Sorry

.

Yes, you can post a mgmt response to any TA review. Keep this in mind when you do...try to not respond as if you are speaking to the person who wrote the review, but to all the people who will be reading it afterwards. If the problems were legit, say how you have fixed them (if fixable). If you're upset, write the review on paper and reread it the next day before you post it. You don't want to sound like a vindictive innkeeper! You can also get someone 'neutral' to read your response before you post it. (I did that and sent it to a bunch of innkeepers on this forum who helped me to craft a better response.)
Also, you can click the link in the review 'about the reviewer' and email the guests from there to ask questions (very nicely) to see if they can elaborate on the problem or to offer whatever 'compensation' you want. Altho, the general feeling is, I think, if a guest's first telling of a problem is online for the world to see, tough toenails on getting anything from the inn.
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Bree, thank you so much for all that you shared with me here. It is very much appreciated. I would hate to to come off like a doofus and all crazy with anger. Thank you!
.

Bree, thank you so much for all that you shared with me here. It is very much appreciated. I would hate to to come off like a doofus and all crazy with anger. Thank you!

Iris I like that you raised your twin boys while operating your place, we have another inn-mate here who is raising twin boys, and others with school age kids.
Do you find you have repeats in your location from summer to summer?
We are going to a cabin/cottage at First Landing State Park - at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay/Atlantic Ocean soon - we've did a cabin at a very small lake last year. We will determine which we want to do again. The lake was terrific, but we thought sand and beach and kayaking the Bay this time. (VA State Parks).
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Oh gawrsh, open the floodgates - I love to talk about myself, heehee.
The boys were the reason for us buying the lodge. It was what could let me stay home with them and still have something to do. So, I have to tell you that it was hard and I have to tell you that it was worth it and I'll tell you that I don't know any better, because I/we never did it without kids. It was perfect for us.
My husband and I worked side by side here for the first 8 years and that was tough. Being used to him gone more than 270 days each year, it was difficult to see him 24/7
This place has been in business for over 80 years and we have people here who have come since the 40's with their families. They are coming and they are loving it. My return business is about 75%, This makes it so that we are more less friends, all of us. We look forward to most guests returning every year.
I don't know if you all have the luxury to turn people down, I do and I have. Raising a family here, I saw some characters coming through here that I was not comfortable with or that I didn't want to deal with because I felt their attitude just didn't fit in here. So, for the first 2 years, we turned a few people away in order to get the guests to "jive". Now, a lot of them make reservations for the same time each year, etc. It is nice.
Funny thing is, I am more of a big city vacationer. I want to stay in fancy, shmanzy hotels with butler, heh
You will love the beach!

 

[JBanczak]

I've noted this before and don't mean to sound like a broken record... but this brings up a great point. Think about how many of the people who stay at your property depend on reviews in their lives now or will soon as sites have been launching on all of them.
Doctors
Contractors
Chefs/Restaurants
Lawyers
Accountants
Every local business like spas/salons/barbers
Every small goods manufacturer - period - from cars to electronics to sporting goods to everything
The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review..

The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.

I wonder what the percentage would be if most people knew or were told in advance how badly these review venues are being manipulated and jaked by the very businesses and industry advocates benefitting the most from consumer driven reviews?
Of course you think people don't mind, your business benefits from more people giving reviews. The question for me has always been, do any of us mind begging, prodding and coaching our guests who come to us for a respite from the cookie cutter, corporate business model which always favors more, more, more, bigger is better, consolidate similar businesses, expand markets, get bigger databases of potential customer information, etc., etc..?
Just a few years ago, TA barely had a "specialty lodging" tab, now its added vacation rentals, more business traveler data, etc.. I think Sweetie Pie's opinion that they will not stop until every category of and individual lodging establishment is listed and somehow "partnered"
I for one, do mind. My guests don't owe me zilch at the end of their stay except their tariff, and hopefully but not required, an affirmative that they thoroughly enjoyed themselves when asked.
Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.
.

The list goes on and on... And I forget the latest stat, but something like 3/4's of travelers rate them as their most important criteria along with a photo and the map to the property!
My point in all this is that people don't mind being asked nicely in some way (follow-up email, link, at check-out, etc.) to leave a review.

Here we all are, beating our brains out trying to distinguish ourselves as a viable, affordable alternative to corporate-owned hotels while offering a unique and more personalized expereince, yet we are constantly told by industry advocates that in order to be successful and competitive, we must act just like the model we are in direct opposition to and in competition with.
When researching my own travel options, I'm far more interested in the veracity, originality, integrity and objectivity of the reviews I read than the sheer volume. My informal research with guests and friends shows me that many people feel the same way.
When confronted with a choice between a B&B like one in my area with 225+ reviews and more added nearly every day and a property that gets reviewed in what appears to be in a naturally occurring frequency with the qualities I just described but far fewer reviews, I myself and people I speak with trust the information about the latter more than the other.

Those are good points, but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers. Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?
Well, when we asked them, we found out that they are uncertain to the quality, afraid of the unknown, etc. and are a lot less likely to stay with someone who doesn't have reviews... You can have a unique and special property, yet still listen to consumers and get them the information they want. The same goes with online bookings - one of the chief complaints of consumers is that it is hard to book, they don't like to have to do requests, and there is no central place to see availability. Providing this functionality isn't necessarily conforming to hotels, it is making it easy for consumers to find out how great B&B's are by giving them the tools they need to want to book with you.
When I did a presentation in Napa - I asked the group (all BB owners) where they were staying... half the group was from out of town. All but one answered Embassy Suites or Marriott... BB owners. Why? They said it was too hard to book a BB and they didn't have time to find out which ones were available or good... No kidding! Think how consumers feel if BB owners don't even want to do it! A decade ago, it was tough to convince a lot of innkeepers they needed a website. Before that it was 800 numbers, and one can say the same thing about private bathrooms, wireless internet, etc.
Nothing about a property has to change to conform like a hotel, consumers are just used to more information in this day and age, so why as an industry would we want to keep it from them. It is a blessing to small businesses - because there is very little that separates the marketing tools available to a 5000 room hotel or a 1 room B&B now... and that has been a giant change on the web.
One of the fundamental tenants of marketing is "never assume you behave like anyone else on the planet..." meaning always make your decisions based on research, not your own thoughts or experience. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, but in this case the research is pretty overwhelming.
.

"but we don't want to tell anyone to be just like a hotel, but we do think it is wise to listen to travelers."
Shorten your cancellation periods to match hotels, offer instant online reservations with no pre-screening to make sure the guest is a good match for your property and amenities, offer rooms on the same portals as hotels, offer discounts and specials just like hotels, hound guests for reviews just like hotels, mass market to guests just hotels do, etc.....
To be perfectly glib and frank, if it walks and talks like a hotel, it will eventually become like a hotel.
"Only 4% of consumers stay at B&B's. Why?"
Because the small, modern, professionally run B&B is a relative newcomer to the lodging world as compared to the corporately owned and heavily marketed world of hotels and motels.
The sheer independence of and small size of B&Bs puts them at an extraordinary exposure and organizing disadvantage compared to the mega chains, multi-national hosptaility corporations, hotel associations, giant hospitality focused advertising firms, etc.
.

To be perfectly glib and frank, if it walks and talks like a hotel, it will eventually become like a hotel.
The sheer independence of and small size of B&Bs puts them at an extraordinary exposure and organizing disadvantage compared to the mega chains, multi-national hosptaility corporations, hotel associations, giant hospitality focused advertising firms, etc.

That is exactly what we are trying to correct. We are not trying to change the experience itself at a B&B, we are just trying to break down the barriers that turn people away from them before they even get the chance. One of those barriers used to be shared bathrooms as an example... now the barriers are exposure, technology, online bookings, reviews.
A Mercedes and a Kia are both are both cars that use each use engines, tires, and breaks, run marketing campaigns, and sell through dealers. They use similar channes to market and distribute, finance, service, etc. The experience you get when you arrive at either dealer, or drive either car is vastly different though, and that is what separates the two - the quality of the end product
Rothschild and and Vendange both make red wines, you can get them both at the same store, using the same credit card at the same cash register - that doesn't mean you have the same experience drinking them both.
Just because it is easy to book a B&B, find where it is on a map, read consumer reviews about it, see great photos or videos on it, and you can book it at the same type of checkout or even store a hotel uses, without fear of your credit card being hacked doesn't mean you are going to get the same experience you get at a hotel. In fact that very experience is what consumers are wary of and why all of these marketing tools convince them why it will be so good.