Wow! Membership Renewal Fee!

[Willowpondgj]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.

 

[JBanczak]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.
Tsk! Tsk! John. We have never, to my knowledge, accused you to be a dimbulb. I do believe everyone has given you the respect you deserve since you have been respectful of us as opposed to another. We are just asking if there is another way. You have said there is, just not the way we envision. OK, I accept that. No one said we had all the answers - we just look at opurselves as a think tank tossing out ideas to see what sticks to the wall.
We do not try to tel anyone else how to run their business. We just ask for fair prices and to be able to determine what each of us considers fair value for what we are told to pay.
.

Well, comments like "And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done." don't necessarily convey your sentiment.
Plus I figure if some of you guys are going to dish-it-out... you gotta be able to take it every now and then too - right? I did put a smiley in there...

 

[JBanczak]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.
.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.

Did you read my previous post? I laid out exactly what we are doing to change it. Here it is again:
Even with just links, it would be way too long to send out. We do however have a fairly large plan for Hot Deals. In includes:
1) Getting the list to be bigger - we have not really done enough to expand this list at all. We'll be putting together a much better member benefits package, higher sign-up rewards, etc. The list should be 1 million, not 80,000.
2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.
3) Distributing the Hot Deals through third parties. Similar to our distribution through Expedia for bookable rooms - there is no reason we are not using third parties to gain awareness. Sites like Travelzoo, or Travel Ticker, or Sherman's Travel have almost no B&B special offers and they are not set-up to handle small properties - we can change that.
Those are all part of the plans for this year and we are well underway on them.

 

[Willowpondgj]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.
Tsk! Tsk! John. We have never, to my knowledge, accused you to be a dimbulb. I do believe everyone has given you the respect you deserve since you have been respectful of us as opposed to another. We are just asking if there is another way. You have said there is, just not the way we envision. OK, I accept that. No one said we had all the answers - we just look at opurselves as a think tank tossing out ideas to see what sticks to the wall.
We do not try to tel anyone else how to run their business. We just ask for fair prices and to be able to determine what each of us considers fair value for what we are told to pay.
.

Well, comments like "And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done." don't necessarily convey your sentiment.
Plus I figure if some of you guys are going to dish-it-out... you gotta be able to take it every now and then too - right? I did put a smiley in there...

.

Yep, we'll take it and our $ elsewhere! Thank you very much.

 

[JBanczak]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.
Tsk! Tsk! John. We have never, to my knowledge, accused you to be a dimbulb. I do believe everyone has given you the respect you deserve since you have been respectful of us as opposed to another. We are just asking if there is another way. You have said there is, just not the way we envision. OK, I accept that. No one said we had all the answers - we just look at opurselves as a think tank tossing out ideas to see what sticks to the wall.
We do not try to tel anyone else how to run their business. We just ask for fair prices and to be able to determine what each of us considers fair value for what we are told to pay.
.

Well, comments like "And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done." don't necessarily convey your sentiment.
Plus I figure if some of you guys are going to dish-it-out... you gotta be able to take it every now and then too - right? I did put a smiley in there...

.

Yep, we'll take it and our $ elsewhere! Thank you very much.
.

Yep, we'll take it and our $ elsewhere! Thank you very much.

How else would you expect me to resond to your statement "And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done." It seems you've already made up your mind.

 

[JBanczak]

In case anyone wants some info on email newsletters:
MarketingSherpa:
In MarketingSherpa's report on Top 10 Email Newsletter Mistakes, publisher Anne Holland makes the case that newsletters must remain kept fresh to be effective. "Your official newsletter has to be taken up, shaken upside down, tested, and then revamped every year or so," she wrote.
She also advises being careful. "I believe newsletter revamps are a lot like (Web) site revamps, where enormous changes ... can be dangerous," she wrote, especially in the short term. To minimize the disruptions, she ticks off several common mistakes to avoid, including:

• Don't assume you have permission to put someone on the mailing list.
• Don't write a "one size fits all" newsletter; readers may delete it quickly. Canvas readers to learn their interests, then tailor a newsletter accordingly.
• Don't send a plain acknowledgement email for a subscription. Dress it up in the text or with graphics or both.
• Don't set a publishing schedule arbitrarily. Research when readers will most likely read it.
• Don't write an institutional newsletter. Personalize it where possible without getting too cute.
• Don't make it one way. Include ways for readers to reply.
• Don't write too long. Include graphics or links to audio and video.
• Don't assume your email will get through filters.
• Don't use a typeface too small to read.
• Don't rely solely on email. Paper, for example, still has a place.

Other tidbits:
People get a lot of email. They don’t have time to read a lot of text. Newsletters must be designed to facilitate scanning. In our study, only 23% of the newsletters were read thoroughly. The remaining newsletters were skimmed, read partly, or not even opened — a fate that befell 27% of the newsletters.
[FONT= &quot]Users spend 51 seconds[/FONT] reading the average newsletter. The layout and writing both need superb usability to survive in the high-pressure environment of a crowded inbox.

 

[gillumhouse]

It was starting to get too narrow to answer right in the thread. This is in response to the responses regarding Hot Deals changes et al.
I believe that Willowpond's response and yours came in at the same time - so she probably did not see your response John (or mine).
Everyone needs to take a deep breath. We have just - thanks to Copperhead - discovered something we were unaware of, I certainly did not realize those Hot Deals were not going out to the world. I get special alerts from other directories, albeit not as large as yours, with deals all over the world so why would I think otherwise? And it is so buried that unless we did a scroll to the bottom, would never know that only 1400 are getting this deal instead of the 80k + we were told received Hot Deals. And yes, a realization like that is quite upsetting.
I appreciate that you are looking at other ways to do it. Sorry it will not make a difference to me any longer.

 

[Willowpondgj]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.
.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.

Did you read my previous post? I laid out exactly what we are doing to change it. Here it is again:
Even with just links, it would be way too long to send out. We do however have a fairly large plan for Hot Deals. In includes:
1) Getting the list to be bigger - we have not really done enough to expand this list at all. We'll be putting together a much better member benefits package, higher sign-up rewards, etc. The list should be 1 million, not 80,000.
2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.
3) Distributing the Hot Deals through third parties. Similar to our distribution through Expedia for bookable rooms - there is no reason we are not using third parties to gain awareness. Sites like Travelzoo, or Travel Ticker, or Sherman's Travel have almost no B&B special offers and they are not set-up to handle small properties - we can change that.
Those are all part of the plans for this year and we are well underway on them.
.

Didn't you read my previous post?

There, I used a smiley. Don't you feel warm and fuzzy all over?
You don't need all the links to every region in the reminder, just one link that takes you to a map or to the area in your website where all of the hot deals can be searched.
If a guest goes to BandB.com, they can do this, under your search tab. Why can't the e-mail just direct them there, instead of only to 1 region?

 

[Mr.Design]

Hi everyone,
Long time lurker and aspiring innkeeper here
I just wanted to add my 2 cents in here about bedandbreakfast.com.
I recently planned a trip down to Key West and in my opinion, Trip Advisor is much more helpful than B&B.com. As a consumer I found B&B's site too commercialized and cheesy.
I would focus on improving my Trip Advisor ranking as opposed to paying such a large membership fee with B&B. When I looked for a place to stay I look for those with the most guest reviews and traveler photos. B&B just doesn't have the number of reviews that TA does and thus wasn't as useful. Besides that, obviously since not all inns are members at B&B.com, B&B doesn't list them all. As a consumer I don't like that. I like to have all the possible places in front of me, ranked by what other travelers think, not who pays the most for a top spot.
Maybe I'm weird but those are my thoughts! .

Is there anything about TripAdvisor besides the reviews that you like better?
We usually hear that innkeepers are frustrated - no link to their B&B's, no map (unless you are on Expedia through BB.com - and if you are not - your map link goes to a map of all properties around your inn except you), no amenities link, limited photos if any, the pages are literally covered with hotel advertising, and the reviews are often done by folks who have never stayed at a B&B before.
We understand we need more reviews to make consumers happy - that is for certain. We are over 50,000 reviews now and growing steadily - definitely an area of focus.
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.
In general it might help to offer guests a 5% discount on their next stay if they go to TA and rate you. I would imagine if they're after the 5% discount they're not going to say it was horrible! LOL
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.

I guess I'm putting on my industry hat here, because I do think Trip Advisor is a useful site... but I don't think Trip Advisor is the healthy, long-term solution for the industry. I don't think a site that offers no direct link to a property, no map (only shows non-B&B properties nearby to your property) is a very good consumer solution that benefits a B&B. IMHO Trip Advisor is taking information on B&B's, then saying to consumers - "don't book them... it is really hard... we don't even have links, you can't find out where they are... but HERE... take a look at all these easy-to-book hotels at cheap rates just around the corner. Feel free to check availability on them right here, get a low-price guarantee, etc."
This, to me, pulls business away from B&B's - it doesn't draw them to B&B's. Sure - everyone knows Hyatt exists, and Expedia exists - so I'm not anti-advertising at all, but NOT making it easy to book a B&B or find their information just reinforces to consumers that it is a pain to deal with a small property.
Imagine the process if you are looking for a property on a busy weekend...
1) Go to TA. Find list of properties in a city. Decide you don't want hotels and you want B&B's. Find one where you like the review. Great - I'm interested..
2) Open another browser, enter B&B name into Google.
3) See B&B listing in google - click on it.
4) Go back to B&B site, find map of B&B, figure out it isn't the location you want.
5) Go back to TA. Read more reviews find another you like, but it has three user photos of stain on the carpet because the guest that left that morning spilled coffee and there was only time to do a fast cleaning. Skip it.
6) Read more reviews, find 3rd B&B you like. Click on the map link.
7) Expedia window opens up showing you all hotels near to that B&B - but NOT that B&B.
8) Gee, this Marriott is pretty close to where I wanted to be, and I can check availability of all hotels with one click. That sounds good.... so I do - and find a few great deals.
9) But I really wanted a B&B... so I go to Google and type in the name of that B&B one more time and click through to their website.
10) Looks good, I check the map, looks okay - so I go to book. Ooops - no availability. Back to TA.
11) Okay - one last ditch effort before I book the Marriott... here is my 4th preference of a B&B. Map opens up to Expedia again - alright, tried that route.
12) Back to google. Enter property name, find it, click through to it, check availability. It is available - but it is $50 more per night than the Marriott, and it is a "request for a reservation..."
13) Okay - I'm booking that Marriott. This is getting too difficult.
That is the scenario we want to change. For starters - we want to allow B&B's to be bookable through Expedia so they show up on those maps... but more importantly we want to make it easy on BedandBreakfast.com for people to do that research without clicking all over the web to find out where properties are, what is available, etc. Consumer perception is that B&B's are hard to find, hard to book, and have varying service - when we as an industry change that - we will start to take more business from larger hotels. Until then we will have to continue to deal with the fact that 96% of the traveling public says they do not stay at B&B's.
Relying on Trip Advisor to change that is not, IMHO the solution to get that 96% number down to 92%. That seems pretty darn doable - and we would literally double the business going to B&B's while still having greater than 90% of Americans never consider them.
That is why we are trying to put the name "BedandBreakfast.com" in front of consumers in any way, shape, or form we can. Nothing about that name says "hotel," and nothing would make all of us happier than doubling the business to B&B's.
5) Repeat google search process, and
.

Hi there,
I'm not sure what you mean by no map. Every property, B&B or otherwise, is avaliable on a map, provided the address is on TA. For example, here's the Key West map:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g34345-Key_West-Area.html#a_reset:geo_34345:detail_34345:mw_1056:mh_562age_0:mt_h:mz_12:mc_24.55408,-81.801:cat_2:currency_USD:minrate_0:maxrate_9999999:umaxrate_9999999:class_
I hope that link works... if not, try this and select the B&B radio button:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g34345-Key_West-Area.html
If you mean when you click on "Map this hotel" then yes, you're right, that is a bad map because if it isn't listed with Expedia, it doesn't show up.
Re- Traveler photos... I don't really think anyone's going to do something like that UNLESS their stay was equally as bad. I know one property I looked at did have termite droppings on one of the pillows. The innkeeper replied saying that yes, that is what it was but the island does have lots of termites and they treat them as soon as possible. Well, that's fine and dandy but unacceptable, IMO. Here's the entire review and reply:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g34345-d324945-r16037059-Simonton_Court_Historic_Inn_and_Cottages-Key_West_Florida_Keys_Florida.html
Maybe it's just me, but like I said, B&B.com is not a pleasing site as a consumer to use. I find it very commercialized and tacky, and I think most people stay at a B&B to get away from the whole commercialization idea. The other factor I don't like, and I know I said it before, but they don't list everyone. Again, as a consumer it raises concerns and thus makes me dig deeper to find what else is out there.
All in all after seeing the rates they charge, my point is, coming from a consumer stand point I don't believe it's worth it for innkeepers.
I think I got the display right, thanks for the solution!
.

If you mean when you click on "Map this hotel" then yes, you're right, that is a bad map because if it isn't listed with Expedia, it doesn't show up.
Re- Traveler photos... I don't really think anyone's going to do something like that UNLESS their stay was equally as bad. I know one property I looked at did have termite droppings on one of the pillows. The innkeeper replied saying that yes, that is what it was but the island does have lots of termites and they treat them as soon as possible. Well, that's fine and dandy but unacceptable, IMO. Here's the entire review and reply:
Maybe it's just me, but like I said, B&B.com is not a pleasing site as a consumer to use. I find it very commercialized and tacky, and I think most people stay at a B&B to get away from the whole commercialization idea. The other factor I don't like, and I know I said it before, but they don't list everyone. Again, as a consumer it raises concerns and thus makes me dig deeper to find what else is out there.

Yes, that is the map that I am talking about. If you go to "Key West" as a city landing page, you don't get the option of seeing the map of the area, nor do you if you go click on any of the individual listings. If you go to any individual listing that is not also on Expedia, and try to map it, then you end up with no map (and the map of surrounding properties).
You certainly seem to know a lot about their site though, although I'm having a hard time finding how our site is more commercialized/tacky than what I see below with a Disney ad spot, Universal ad spot, Hilton 20% off, and two separate sponsored listing boxes with ads for Expedia, BestWestern, Starwood, About-Keywesthotels.com, and Booking Buddy. Here is a screen shot of both their site and ours when you land on the Key West page.

.

I think the problem is, you're not using TA 'right.'
As with any search, you have to click to get more results... if you click on "Key West" (the first link where it says "Key West, Florida Keys, Florida") then it brings you to the main overview page.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g34345-Key_West_Florida_Keys_Florida-Vacations.html
Now look to the right and you'll see a small map that you can click on. When you do it brings up a map with hotels, B&B's, restaurants and attractions. You can deselect restaurants and attractions and it'll leave the accommodations. As a traveler this is the best! I can find a place based not only on streets but also by what's next to what, whether that be different restaurants/attractions as well.
Again though, you do have to have your address in there for it to work.
I expect a site based solely on bed and breakfasts to not be as commercialized looking as a general travel site. I also expect it to be inclusive of all B&B's as sites like TA generally have most accommodations in the area.
If B&B.com works for you, great! I'm just throwing in why I don't like it and don't see any reason to throw quite a bit of money in to be listed on their site.

 

[Copperhead]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

Even with just links, it would be way too long to send out. We do however have a fairly large plan for Hot Deals. In includes:
1) Getting the list to be bigger - we have not really done enough to expand this list at all. We'll be putting together a much better member benefits package, higher sign-up rewards, etc. The list should be 1 million, not 80,000.
2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.
3) Distributing the Hot Deals through third parties. Similar to our distribution through Expedia for bookable rooms - there is no reason we are not using third parties to gain awareness. Sites like Travelzoo, or Travel Ticker, or Sherman's Travel have almost no B&B special offers and they are not set-up to handle small properties - we can change that.
Those are all part of the plans for this year and we are well underway on them.
.

John,
I want to thank you for letting us know that plans are in the works for Hot Deals. I do agree that an extensive email would not be a benefit to anyone. I am just glad that plans to improve this program are in the works.
I did not bring up this Hot topic to be belligerent. I have read numerous statements on this forum (and the other) that the Hot Deals were not working and had stopped participating. It was an eye-opener to me when I read the reminder email with the broadcast number, then when placing my Hot Deal, I see in small print the small # that would receive my deal. I guess being new to bandb.com and having read the posts, it made me really look at the program deeper.
Regarding the #2 on your post: What do you mean by 'the deals are so narrow (by our own requirements)...." Are you talking about what the B&B can place in the deal OR are you referring to the 'region' is so narrow? Just wondering!
In regard to the region - I can tell you that my 'drive' market is up to 4 hours. What I mean by this is that on average (for me), guests will drive up to 4 hours to get here for a 'get-a-way' experience, which is what I would think most would use your Hot Deals for. I would hope (for #'s sake) that your current region paramaters are set to far less than that.
Again, glad that ya'll are working the issue and am looking forward to seeing the results.

 

[GeorgiaGirl]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.
.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.

Did you read my previous post? I laid out exactly what we are doing to change it. Here it is again:
Even with just links, it would be way too long to send out. We do however have a fairly large plan for Hot Deals. In includes:
1) Getting the list to be bigger - we have not really done enough to expand this list at all. We'll be putting together a much better member benefits package, higher sign-up rewards, etc. The list should be 1 million, not 80,000.
2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.
3) Distributing the Hot Deals through third parties. Similar to our distribution through Expedia for bookable rooms - there is no reason we are not using third parties to gain awareness. Sites like Travelzoo, or Travel Ticker, or Sherman's Travel have almost no B&B special offers and they are not set-up to handle small properties - we can change that.
Those are all part of the plans for this year and we are well underway on them.
.

2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.

I would like to be able to choose a region and not just state when signing up for Hot Deals. Instead of only getting ones for lets say Georgia, maybe I would like the whole Southeast so I can see what might be available all around me if I want to plan a weekend trip. But then I would like to be able to only choose Georgia if that's all that I want.
As a traveler I wouldn't care to receive Hot Deals for every state when I sign up (unless that is an option to choose that....) since there's places that I don't care to visit. I shouldn't be forced to receive an email containing deals to New Mexico if I never want to vist New Mexico, that would be a reason to make me stop looking at the emails when they came in.

p.s. John, when are you going to put up a new pic of the cute little ones??? Although this one is darling, we can't see the babies face, I bet she looks like big Sis!

 

[Willowpondgj]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.
.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.

Did you read my previous post? I laid out exactly what we are doing to change it. Here it is again:
Even with just links, it would be way too long to send out. We do however have a fairly large plan for Hot Deals. In includes:
1) Getting the list to be bigger - we have not really done enough to expand this list at all. We'll be putting together a much better member benefits package, higher sign-up rewards, etc. The list should be 1 million, not 80,000.
2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.
3) Distributing the Hot Deals through third parties. Similar to our distribution through Expedia for bookable rooms - there is no reason we are not using third parties to gain awareness. Sites like Travelzoo, or Travel Ticker, or Sherman's Travel have almost no B&B special offers and they are not set-up to handle small properties - we can change that.
Those are all part of the plans for this year and we are well underway on them.
.

2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.

I would like to be able to choose a region and not just state when signing up for Hot Deals. Instead of only getting ones for lets say Georgia, maybe I would like the whole Southeast so I can see what might be available all around me if I want to plan a weekend trip. But then I would like to be able to only choose Georgia if that's all that I want.
As a traveler I wouldn't care to receive Hot Deals for every state when I sign up (unless that is an option to choose that....) since there's places that I don't care to visit. I shouldn't be forced to receive an email containing deals to New Mexico if I never want to vist New Mexico, that would be a reason to make me stop looking at the emails when they came in.

p.s. John, when are you going to put up a new pic of the cute little ones??? Although this one is darling, we can't see the babies face, I bet she looks like big Sis!
.

As a guest, I too would want to sign up for a region without seeing all the irrelevant hot deal, but I still would like have the option to search other areas. I too am on a 4-5 hour trip zone for get-aways and also on a border between regions, So as an innkeeper, I want to reach all the adjacent regions.

 

[JBanczak]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.
.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.

Did you read my previous post? I laid out exactly what we are doing to change it. Here it is again:
Even with just links, it would be way too long to send out. We do however have a fairly large plan for Hot Deals. In includes:
1) Getting the list to be bigger - we have not really done enough to expand this list at all. We'll be putting together a much better member benefits package, higher sign-up rewards, etc. The list should be 1 million, not 80,000.
2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.
3) Distributing the Hot Deals through third parties. Similar to our distribution through Expedia for bookable rooms - there is no reason we are not using third parties to gain awareness. Sites like Travelzoo, or Travel Ticker, or Sherman's Travel have almost no B&B special offers and they are not set-up to handle small properties - we can change that.
Those are all part of the plans for this year and we are well underway on them.
.

2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.

I would like to be able to choose a region and not just state when signing up for Hot Deals. Instead of only getting ones for lets say Georgia, maybe I would like the whole Southeast so I can see what might be available all around me if I want to plan a weekend trip. But then I would like to be able to only choose Georgia if that's all that I want.
As a traveler I wouldn't care to receive Hot Deals for every state when I sign up (unless that is an option to choose that....) since there's places that I don't care to visit. I shouldn't be forced to receive an email containing deals to New Mexico if I never want to vist New Mexico, that would be a reason to make me stop looking at the emails when they came in.

p.s. John, when are you going to put up a new pic of the cute little ones??? Although this one is darling, we can't see the babies face, I bet she looks like big Sis!
.

We currently have this in every email:
For the complete list of BedandBreakfast.com Hot Deals, click here.
Regions are tricky to figure out. We used to do a lot with regions, even on our site - but we found it very hard to manage since everyone's idea of a region is a little different, and maintaining them all is a whole different story. Right now you can choose to get multiple states though.
I think the biggest issues is that the hot deals are valid - NOW - and must be booked for travel - within 2 weeks if I recall correctly - then are pulled down... Which means they really are last-minute deals only, and there is a very limited number of travelers who can travel at the last minute. We did this for a reason way back when, but that needs to change and we are currently working on it.

 

[swirt]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.
.

So, you admit what is being done now isn't working well, the innkeepers offer an idea that could make it better (IOVNHO's) but you won't change.
Wow.

Did you read my previous post? I laid out exactly what we are doing to change it. Here it is again:
Even with just links, it would be way too long to send out. We do however have a fairly large plan for Hot Deals. In includes:
1) Getting the list to be bigger - we have not really done enough to expand this list at all. We'll be putting together a much better member benefits package, higher sign-up rewards, etc. The list should be 1 million, not 80,000.
2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.
3) Distributing the Hot Deals through third parties. Similar to our distribution through Expedia for bookable rooms - there is no reason we are not using third parties to gain awareness. Sites like Travelzoo, or Travel Ticker, or Sherman's Travel have almost no B&B special offers and they are not set-up to handle small properties - we can change that.
Those are all part of the plans for this year and we are well underway on them.
.

2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.

I would like to be able to choose a region and not just state when signing up for Hot Deals. Instead of only getting ones for lets say Georgia, maybe I would like the whole Southeast so I can see what might be available all around me if I want to plan a weekend trip. But then I would like to be able to only choose Georgia if that's all that I want.
As a traveler I wouldn't care to receive Hot Deals for every state when I sign up (unless that is an option to choose that....) since there's places that I don't care to visit. I shouldn't be forced to receive an email containing deals to New Mexico if I never want to vist New Mexico, that would be a reason to make me stop looking at the emails when they came in.

p.s. John, when are you going to put up a new pic of the cute little ones??? Although this one is darling, we can't see the babies face, I bet she looks like big Sis!
.

We currently have this in every email:
For the complete list of BedandBreakfast.com Hot Deals, click here.
Regions are tricky to figure out. We used to do a lot with regions, even on our site - but we found it very hard to manage since everyone's idea of a region is a little different, and maintaining them all is a whole different story. Right now you can choose to get multiple states though.
I think the biggest issues is that the hot deals are valid - NOW - and must be booked for travel - within 2 weeks if I recall correctly - then are pulled down... Which means they really are last-minute deals only, and there is a very limited number of travelers who can travel at the last minute. We did this for a reason way back when, but that needs to change and we are currently working on it.
.

We did this for a reason way back when, but that needs to change and we are currently working on it.

Right, the original purpose of the hot deals was to try to put heads in beds at the last minute. Innkeepers didn't want to list these kind of specials so far out (no sense having a sale if they didn't need one.) The idea is that the hot deals reminder went out on Wed or Thur with sales for any innkeepers that had last minute openings.
I think the disconnect is that the true B&B goer who is last minute is not the same one that is organized enough to be signed up for last minute notifications.

 

[swirt]

It was starting to get too narrow to answer right in the thread. This is in response to the responses regarding Hot Deals changes et al.
I believe that Willowpond's response and yours came in at the same time - so she probably did not see your response John (or mine).
Everyone needs to take a deep breath. We have just - thanks to Copperhead - discovered something we were unaware of, I certainly did not realize those Hot Deals were not going out to the world. I get special alerts from other directories, albeit not as large as yours, with deals all over the world so why would I think otherwise? And it is so buried that unless we did a scroll to the bottom, would never know that only 1400 are getting this deal instead of the 80k + we were told received Hot Deals. And yes, a realization like that is quite upsetting.
I appreciate that you are looking at other ways to do it. Sorry it will not make a difference to me any longer..

Thanks Kathleen for the call for everyone to take a nice deep breath. There is a ton of great information on this thread (for both innkeeper and vendor alike) It would be a shame to have it get obscured by hurt feelings and fiery responses.

 

[Samster]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

I'm signed up for hot deals to see what (if anything) my competition is offering & other deals within the State for ideas on specials & packages.

I haven't had a single bite off of hot deals either.

Don't have one going now but I do have specials posted.
But I did just have a booking where the guest said they found us on bbonline & since I'm not listed there yet, I guess it was your directory. lol!! So, there is ONE one night booking (probably, maybe, let's assume so...)

!!

 

[Samster]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

.

oops...deleted a duplicate post.

 

[Eric Goldreyer]

Dear Innkeepers,
So I took a few days myself to "take a deep breath". Much better!
Let me try and elaborate on some thoughts. I realize we are not working for Kathleen and she is upset and we are losing her business. I think it is unfortunate, and will stand by my comment that I feel an average rate increase of 7% per year over the last 9-10 years is totatlly fair - especially while during that same time period that we doubled our rates, our traffic grew by about 10X. I really do not understand where that is not fair or make sus bad guys. I also do not understand why we are called "slimy" for launching a program that save sinnkeepers $60/year because when it was announced we didn't also say "BTW, our rates increased Jan 1". Our rate increase typically take effect on jan 1. That i snot always. Sometimes rates have not inncreased, sometimes they have been delayed. But to think that some of you guys are upset with us because you feel we should have announced it along with our annual rates, I just feel is unfair. (I do nto expect sympathy here - as some of you will claim - I am tryin got share "my" viewpoint).
I am not going to reply to each and every post in this thread because it is all over the place. But someone in the thread remarked that this is a place for folks to vent". That sounds reasonable (even though there is a seperate area in the forum for "venting". But nionetheless, why is it then not fair for me to vent my frustrations? If we want an open two-way communication channel, (which I do) there seems to be a bit of a double-standard. I have to be able to explain my thoughts/positions without folks condenscendingly sayimg I am just pushing my products. I am completely open to an open dialog with you guys, but if you want to keep it professional, it is a two-way street. We don't need the attacking comments, the "You Go Girl" comments like it is a competition and you are cheering for a victor. I would love nothing more to sit down as a group with all of you and have an open communication about our business.
But the reason John and I are on this board is because we do listen. We are here and actively participating. My perception is that some of you only feel we are "listening" if we actaully implement every change you suggest. That is not practical. We listen. Then we make business decision based on what we feel is the best solution for everyone involved (you guys, potential guests, and us).
Kathleen - I really don't know why you did not see a nice return for your investment. I am truly sorry you did not and I certainly don't fault you for lookinng for other places that may give it to you. I do know by looking at our stats for your listing, that we sent nearly 3,000 folks to your home page from BedandBreakfast.com in the last year. That is what, about twelve cents per user. I don't see how that seems unfair in our pricing. Using some easy conversion stats of 1%, you should have sold nearly 30 reservations because of us. Even if your average res is only 1 night (industry average is 2.3) and your ADR is only $100 (industry average is about $170) - you should have earned about $3,000 from your $350 invesment...? Why didn't you...? I am not sure. It really could be a lot of things. I do know that we have a full timme team fo Membership Consultants that are a toll-free call away that are happy to help you and will run through your listing and member checklist and offer any assistance we can to see how we could possibly increase your conversion. But you have to call them. I wish we could proactively call every member but it is unfortunately just not practical with 7,000 member properties. Like any media purchase (Super Bowl ad, magazine, billboard or newspaper ad) you are buying the visibility and it seems like we delivered on that front. Nonetheless, for whatever reason it did not work and therefore you shoul;d try and find somethinng that may. I am curious if you track your reservations by channel through your booking engine or stat software. Often times, if not most times, it is very hard for an innkeeper to find out where their reservations came form by asking the guest. As was pointed out in this thread, consumers don't remember and they will say your own website when they actually started on a directory and linked through to your hoe page so although they say your home page, they actually found you because of the directory. Not always the case, but the best way to truly track your reservations is to set up your software correctly to really "track" them. best of luck to you and let us know if there is anythignn we can do to help.
A few of you guys talk about the price alot - and how we are out to get you But as I mentioned above (and we have already spent a lot of time on tis in previous threads), our annual rate increases over the last 9-10 years has averaged 7% while our traffic has increased by an order of magnitude. We also now include Inns.com so it is no longer even the same. And this year, we aunched the ratings credit which basically keeps the rates for Bronze and Silver members the same (if not a little drop) year over year from 2008 to 2009. The review credit program applies to everyone immediately - not only to folks on the 2009 pricing. So folks that renewed/joined in December (1 month ago) are also now saving $5 every month off their membership when they get a review. It was not a new program tied to the rate increase - again, why we didn't mention our standard annual rate adjustment when announcing it. No the rates didn't go up from Novemeber as someone exclaimed. Our new 2009 rates went into effect. if you joined/paid in November, that will be your rate until next November. We lock in your rates, we do not raise them mid-membership. "That" wouldn't be fair.
For any of you that use our RezOvation products and services, you will see that in the last 4 years we have dropped the price of our PMS (from $595 to $195) all while completely reinvesting in it and rewritinng it from the ground up with the weekly feedback/input from a panel of 20 innkeepers, on the latest and greatest programming language, using a standard and robust SQL databse (not some propriatery one that may cause you problems down the road), becomeing the only Micorsoft certified provider inthe space, and many other thinigs. We also dropped the price of the booking engine from 5% per res to a low monthly fee with no commissions that is about 80% less than it was 4-5 years ago. In general, technology costs have decreased over time, and we drop our prices accordingly. On the media side of the business (BBCOM), the cost to get traffic has done nothing but increase. Fortunately, our exposure has also considearbly increased and therefore the value we provide has increased. And therefore we have raised those prices.
Regarding different rates for different size properties, we have considered it many times. We try to remain open to new ideas and I think we actuaslly implement many of them with our team. My thoughts on this are:
- That makes sense in a technology product (see paragrpah above) where prices drop and where the cost to support/maintain a technology scales with the size of the property (ie. it clearly takes us more of everything to support a 20 room property using our RezOvation Bookinng Engine, than it takes to support and maintain a 3 room property. Therefore our prices reflect that.
- The majority of traffic/reservations goes to the folks at the top of a search result (be it Google, BBCOM, or your chamber). It seems if would not be fair for a 12 room B&B paying $500/year to be below4 smaller B&Bs with 1-4 rooms because the smaller B&Bs were able to buy the same spot for $200. I really do not see that as fair. I am open to discuss this and I am trying to understand your point so please keep the dialouge going. But we are not Select Registry (as some of you mentioned) - where we have to inspect your property and therefore our costs go up or down with the size of your property. Nor are we a state association here to help you navigate vendors, state and local laws, etc. We are a marketing company (sorry I am stating the obvious).
- I don't see see NBC (or whoever it is) offering me a less expensive rate for a 30 second Super Bowl ad because I am a smaller business than Budweiser. No, the rate is the rate based upon the value they (NBC) provides. Same apllies to full page ads in Conde Nast, Travel and Liesure, etc. The rate is the same and it is not based on a customer's ability to afford it, but the value delivered. So I am having a hard time getting my hands around why we should do it differently, Again, I am not trying to in any way draw a liine in the sand (as some of you seem to think I am/have with your posts). I just can't figure it out. If you have the answer or some thoughts, please share them. I am always open to considering better ways.
Frankly, we realize is is not the ideal way to price our services (flat fee for membership by level). But that is how they all do it. We tried doing a Pay Per Click model for innkeepers with Inns.com. It wa svery dair, whoever paid the highest got the best placement, and we only charged for the traffic we delivered. We also have a program for online reservations whereby you only pay the fee when we sell a room for you (although you have to be at least a Bronze member to participate in that additional channel). It seems the fairest way to price our services would be on a lead generation basis (ie. a Pay Per Click). That way we are not penalized if the product i sbad and there are no reservations made. If we deliver a hot lead, we get paid. And it is then the innkeepers job to work with their webmaster to ensure they convert that traffic. That does not compensate us for the reservations that are made directly from our wesbite when consumers pick up the phone (which still clearly happens because our listings are comprehensive enough that folks can see most of everything they need to see on our site and then just call to make a reservation. But I think that would probably be the cleanest/fairest. I don't see us going there because aside from the complexity of changing our entire model (and having a model different from everyone else in the industry), I don't think innkeepers would actaully like it. I very well could be wrong. I will promise you this though - If we changed it, some innkeepers would absolutely be completely and toatlly upset with us and think we were the worst folks on earth. It is unfortuante, but with 7,000 customers, it seems that almost whatever you do will upset some of them Anyway, back to pricing for BBCOM membership by room count, wouldn't that be like you guys pricing your room rates based on people's ability to pay? I mean it seems like it would be like saying your Honeymoon Suite is $495 if you make over $100,000/year, but only $95 if you make under $30,000. I don't think any innkeepers do that (at least none I am aware of).. Maybe you allow them to pay it out over a few payments, but i doubt many innkeepers even do that. We did was spend invest several months of development time to create a system where innkeepers could pay monthly instead of annually. We feel this helps considerably with the innkeeper's cash flow and in many cases enables the membership to pay for itself in a new way way - meaning an innkeeper joins and gets three months free and they get reservations in those first 3 months that pay for their ongoing membership and this pattern continues so innkeepers are able to pay us with money we heloed them make. IThen that takes us back to "really?", $30/mo ($1 a day) seems outrageous to some of you? Here in this thread there has been discussion as to how we price compasred to BBOnline. We realize we are more expensive (and we think in most cases it is justified). But isn't the question whether or not you are getting a positive ROI from us (as would/should ebt eh question for any ad medium - minus the oppoprtunity cost). I realize I may be missing the forest through the tress so honestly please provide "constructive" feedback/input.
Some of you continue to go back and beat us up for raisng the GC rates without enough heads up. We already stated on this board that that was our bad and we pushed the rate increase out. We made a mistake. We are juggling a lot of stuff here. We try, but we will have mis-steps like anyone. I "think" we admit when we make a mistake, but there is no need to keep beating us up on it...? We realize we are not perfect and we want to hear what you guys have to say.
Yes, this is my baby. I apologize (truly) if my defensive reply offended anyone. Just so you know how I feel (in this open communication), I feel like we explain our side of the story with our thoughts, facts,logic and details - it is ofetntimes mocked on this forum and many times completely disregarded (like "Who wants to be bothered with the facts"). I think I even recall someone on this thread saying "enough of the facts" more or less. Maybe I got it wrong. This is a very long thread and covers a multitude of topics. But I feel just as you feel that you can tell me your thoughts, I can share with you what the perception is from our end. It is "We want it cheap. We don't care what you do and all you have done or that you have dropped prices big time at RezOvation. We want cheaper rates and because you charge more than anyone else, you guys are bad."
That's what we hear...
I look forward to an open/fair/honest dialouge.
Sincerely,
Eric

 

[gillumhouse]

Dear Innkeepers,
So I took a few days myself to "take a deep breath". Much better!
Let me try and elaborate on some thoughts. I realize we are not working for Kathleen and she is upset and we are losing her business. I think it is unfortunate, and will stand by my comment that I feel an average rate increase of 7% per year over the last 9-10 years is totatlly fair - especially while during that same time period that we doubled our rates, our traffic grew by about 10X. I really do not understand where that is not fair or make sus bad guys. I also do not understand why we are called "slimy" for launching a program that save sinnkeepers $60/year because when it was announced we didn't also say "BTW, our rates increased Jan 1". Our rate increase typically take effect on jan 1. That i snot always. Sometimes rates have not inncreased, sometimes they have been delayed. But to think that some of you guys are upset with us because you feel we should have announced it along with our annual rates, I just feel is unfair. (I do nto expect sympathy here - as some of you will claim - I am tryin got share "my" viewpoint).
I am not going to reply to each and every post in this thread because it is all over the place. But someone in the thread remarked that this is a place for folks to vent". That sounds reasonable (even though there is a seperate area in the forum for "venting". But nionetheless, why is it then not fair for me to vent my frustrations? If we want an open two-way communication channel, (which I do) there seems to be a bit of a double-standard. I have to be able to explain my thoughts/positions without folks condenscendingly sayimg I am just pushing my products. I am completely open to an open dialog with you guys, but if you want to keep it professional, it is a two-way street. We don't need the attacking comments, the "You Go Girl" comments like it is a competition and you are cheering for a victor. I would love nothing more to sit down as a group with all of you and have an open communication about our business.
But the reason John and I are on this board is because we do listen. We are here and actively participating. My perception is that some of you only feel we are "listening" if we actaully implement every change you suggest. That is not practical. We listen. Then we make business decision based on what we feel is the best solution for everyone involved (you guys, potential guests, and us).
Kathleen - I really don't know why you did not see a nice return for your investment. I am truly sorry you did not and I certainly don't fault you for lookinng for other places that may give it to you. I do know by looking at our stats for your listing, that we sent nearly 3,000 folks to your home page from BedandBreakfast.com in the last year. That is what, about twelve cents per user. I don't see how that seems unfair in our pricing. Using some easy conversion stats of 1%, you should have sold nearly 30 reservations because of us. Even if your average res is only 1 night (industry average is 2.3) and your ADR is only $100 (industry average is about $170) - you should have earned about $3,000 from your $350 invesment...? Why didn't you...? I am not sure. It really could be a lot of things. I do know that we have a full timme team fo Membership Consultants that are a toll-free call away that are happy to help you and will run through your listing and member checklist and offer any assistance we can to see how we could possibly increase your conversion. But you have to call them. I wish we could proactively call every member but it is unfortunately just not practical with 7,000 member properties. Like any media purchase (Super Bowl ad, magazine, billboard or newspaper ad) you are buying the visibility and it seems like we delivered on that front. Nonetheless, for whatever reason it did not work and therefore you shoul;d try and find somethinng that may. I am curious if you track your reservations by channel through your booking engine or stat software. Often times, if not most times, it is very hard for an innkeeper to find out where their reservations came form by asking the guest. As was pointed out in this thread, consumers don't remember and they will say your own website when they actually started on a directory and linked through to your hoe page so although they say your home page, they actually found you because of the directory. Not always the case, but the best way to truly track your reservations is to set up your software correctly to really "track" them. best of luck to you and let us know if there is anythignn we can do to help.
A few of you guys talk about the price alot - and how we are out to get you But as I mentioned above (and we have already spent a lot of time on tis in previous threads), our annual rate increases over the last 9-10 years has averaged 7% while our traffic has increased by an order of magnitude. We also now include Inns.com so it is no longer even the same. And this year, we aunched the ratings credit which basically keeps the rates for Bronze and Silver members the same (if not a little drop) year over year from 2008 to 2009. The review credit program applies to everyone immediately - not only to folks on the 2009 pricing. So folks that renewed/joined in December (1 month ago) are also now saving $5 every month off their membership when they get a review. It was not a new program tied to the rate increase - again, why we didn't mention our standard annual rate adjustment when announcing it. No the rates didn't go up from Novemeber as someone exclaimed. Our new 2009 rates went into effect. if you joined/paid in November, that will be your rate until next November. We lock in your rates, we do not raise them mid-membership. "That" wouldn't be fair.
For any of you that use our RezOvation products and services, you will see that in the last 4 years we have dropped the price of our PMS (from $595 to $195) all while completely reinvesting in it and rewritinng it from the ground up with the weekly feedback/input from a panel of 20 innkeepers, on the latest and greatest programming language, using a standard and robust SQL databse (not some propriatery one that may cause you problems down the road), becomeing the only Micorsoft certified provider inthe space, and many other thinigs. We also dropped the price of the booking engine from 5% per res to a low monthly fee with no commissions that is about 80% less than it was 4-5 years ago. In general, technology costs have decreased over time, and we drop our prices accordingly. On the media side of the business (BBCOM), the cost to get traffic has done nothing but increase. Fortunately, our exposure has also considearbly increased and therefore the value we provide has increased. And therefore we have raised those prices.
Regarding different rates for different size properties, we have considered it many times. We try to remain open to new ideas and I think we actuaslly implement many of them with our team. My thoughts on this are:
- That makes sense in a technology product (see paragrpah above) where prices drop and where the cost to support/maintain a technology scales with the size of the property (ie. it clearly takes us more of everything to support a 20 room property using our RezOvation Bookinng Engine, than it takes to support and maintain a 3 room property. Therefore our prices reflect that.
- The majority of traffic/reservations goes to the folks at the top of a search result (be it Google, BBCOM, or your chamber). It seems if would not be fair for a 12 room B&B paying $500/year to be below4 smaller B&Bs with 1-4 rooms because the smaller B&Bs were able to buy the same spot for $200. I really do not see that as fair. I am open to discuss this and I am trying to understand your point so please keep the dialouge going. But we are not Select Registry (as some of you mentioned) - where we have to inspect your property and therefore our costs go up or down with the size of your property. Nor are we a state association here to help you navigate vendors, state and local laws, etc. We are a marketing company (sorry I am stating the obvious).
- I don't see see NBC (or whoever it is) offering me a less expensive rate for a 30 second Super Bowl ad because I am a smaller business than Budweiser. No, the rate is the rate based upon the value they (NBC) provides. Same apllies to full page ads in Conde Nast, Travel and Liesure, etc. The rate is the same and it is not based on a customer's ability to afford it, but the value delivered. So I am having a hard time getting my hands around why we should do it differently, Again, I am not trying to in any way draw a liine in the sand (as some of you seem to think I am/have with your posts). I just can't figure it out. If you have the answer or some thoughts, please share them. I am always open to considering better ways.
Frankly, we realize is is not the ideal way to price our services (flat fee for membership by level). But that is how they all do it. We tried doing a Pay Per Click model for innkeepers with Inns.com. It wa svery dair, whoever paid the highest got the best placement, and we only charged for the traffic we delivered. We also have a program for online reservations whereby you only pay the fee when we sell a room for you (although you have to be at least a Bronze member to participate in that additional channel). It seems the fairest way to price our services would be on a lead generation basis (ie. a Pay Per Click). That way we are not penalized if the product i sbad and there are no reservations made. If we deliver a hot lead, we get paid. And it is then the innkeepers job to work with their webmaster to ensure they convert that traffic. That does not compensate us for the reservations that are made directly from our wesbite when consumers pick up the phone (which still clearly happens because our listings are comprehensive enough that folks can see most of everything they need to see on our site and then just call to make a reservation. But I think that would probably be the cleanest/fairest. I don't see us going there because aside from the complexity of changing our entire model (and having a model different from everyone else in the industry), I don't think innkeepers would actaully like it. I very well could be wrong. I will promise you this though - If we changed it, some innkeepers would absolutely be completely and toatlly upset with us and think we were the worst folks on earth. It is unfortuante, but with 7,000 customers, it seems that almost whatever you do will upset some of them Anyway, back to pricing for BBCOM membership by room count, wouldn't that be like you guys pricing your room rates based on people's ability to pay? I mean it seems like it would be like saying your Honeymoon Suite is $495 if you make over $100,000/year, but only $95 if you make under $30,000. I don't think any innkeepers do that (at least none I am aware of).. Maybe you allow them to pay it out over a few payments, but i doubt many innkeepers even do that. We did was spend invest several months of development time to create a system where innkeepers could pay monthly instead of annually. We feel this helps considerably with the innkeeper's cash flow and in many cases enables the membership to pay for itself in a new way way - meaning an innkeeper joins and gets three months free and they get reservations in those first 3 months that pay for their ongoing membership and this pattern continues so innkeepers are able to pay us with money we heloed them make. IThen that takes us back to "really?", $30/mo ($1 a day) seems outrageous to some of you? Here in this thread there has been discussion as to how we price compasred to BBOnline. We realize we are more expensive (and we think in most cases it is justified). But isn't the question whether or not you are getting a positive ROI from us (as would/should ebt eh question for any ad medium - minus the oppoprtunity cost). I realize I may be missing the forest through the tress so honestly please provide "constructive" feedback/input.
Some of you continue to go back and beat us up for raisng the GC rates without enough heads up. We already stated on this board that that was our bad and we pushed the rate increase out. We made a mistake. We are juggling a lot of stuff here. We try, but we will have mis-steps like anyone. I "think" we admit when we make a mistake, but there is no need to keep beating us up on it...? We realize we are not perfect and we want to hear what you guys have to say.
Yes, this is my baby. I apologize (truly) if my defensive reply offended anyone. Just so you know how I feel (in this open communication), I feel like we explain our side of the story with our thoughts, facts,logic and details - it is ofetntimes mocked on this forum and many times completely disregarded (like "Who wants to be bothered with the facts"). I think I even recall someone on this thread saying "enough of the facts" more or less. Maybe I got it wrong. This is a very long thread and covers a multitude of topics. But I feel just as you feel that you can tell me your thoughts, I can share with you what the perception is from our end. It is "We want it cheap. We don't care what you do and all you have done or that you have dropped prices big time at RezOvation. We want cheaper rates and because you charge more than anyone else, you guys are bad."
That's what we hear...
I look forward to an open/fair/honest dialouge.
Sincerely,
Eric.

Eric,
I am not, and have not disputed your right to charge whatever. I actually was not asking for a "sliding" scale. I believe what we were REALLY asking for is a level that is going to give what anyone who is savvy considers a MUST - a link to homepage - that is affordable for the small inns. What you give for Bronze is almost equal to throwing the money down a rathole.
We all know that today's traveler wants instant gratification and wants to see what he is looking to buy and that requires a link to our web site. I do not need 10 photos. I do not need Hot Deals that only go to 1400 people who are not going to use it. I am not interested in GCs other than my own.
What do I want and need for my 3 rooms? I need exposure to the traveling public - and if there is someone who has paid for a higher level I have no problem with them being listed first, they paid for the priviledge, I need my contact info including a link to my web page (that is really what people are going to judge me on, not my bandb page), and yes, I do need at least 1 photo.
You have a "sliding scale" now but it is your levels, not room count. You say it costs more to take care of a 20 room inn than a 3 room - excuse me, but it is usually the reverse, the more you make of something the less it costs. Now do not use this statement to turn around on me. I am asking for a minimum of services at a rate I can afford. You do not (or cannot) provide that. Rather than trying to find a reason that is MY fault for your site not producing revenue, understand that your site is a "scatter gun" and I do not care if you count 3000 hits to my site (my tracker does not show that many) - are you meanung my bandb page? - if they are not coming to my web page or are not booking, it means nothing. An ad in the newspaper may have a lot of looks but if no one picks up the phone, it is just birdcage material (which it is in my opinion).
I do not know what you mean by a "just a 7% increase" when my rate went up over $100 in 2009 than what it was in 2008. I do believe that would be a mite more than 7%.
I wish you well. I just have chosen to say that although I have paid to run with the "big dogs" in the past - the cost of doing it has gone beyond my means and I will see what those little targeted directories can do for me. I will see this year, since my membership runs out before the "season" starts, just how dropping this listing does affect my occupancy. You may have the last laugh after all. But I am going to find out.

 

[swirt]

- I don't see see NBC (or whoever it is) offering me a less expensive rate for a 30 second Super Bowl ad because I am a smaller business than Budweiser.

I think this is an inaccurate analogy. What they are selling is air time which is a limited commodity. You aren't selling air time, you are selling your collection of users which is also a limited commodity, but in a different way.
To make this line of thought a little easier, lets say that you have a million users on your site in a given day. And for the most part, they are all looking for a place to stay. Lets say 100 of them are looking to stay in Poughkeepsie NY.
So they land on your page and they see that there are two B&B's ... one has 36 rooms and one has 4 rooms. Which one is going to draw down more of your users? (assuming equivalent accommodations) The little 4 room B&B can only accommodate so many before it is full, while the larger 36 room place can take a lot more. The larger place is going to draw off more of your users, because they have more openings. So they get more users (the thing you are actually selling). Just by the numbers alone, the bigger inn gets a much bigger return on their listing with you. The "little" inn with only 4 rooms may get just as many click throughs according to your trackers, but they will be full and not have openings more often, so those users that originally clicked on their link, will be back to you continuing to browse your collection.
So if you are truly after the most fair method, it would be to charge not by click through, but by exit (which you could track) or by conversion (which you can't track for everyone). But either way, by this analogy, charging everyone for the same listing, is not the most fair. The bigger properties will draw down more of your users, the thing you are actually selling, than the small property will.
Keep in mind, I have always said companies are free to charge what they want and customers are free to pick and choose as they please. You used in much of your defense, referring to lowering your price for RezoVation and other things you have done to improve other products and I think that speaks to the company as a whole. But you have to realize that many innkeepers aren't aware of what you did with the price for Rezovation. They are up and running and already have a reservation system and likely are too busy to have looked to see other options after the fact. They did their research early on and never looked back. Each of your endeavors/products has to sort of stand in its own spotlight. So if the price on a bandb.com listing goes up, they are going to respond to that. People are still afraid about what's going to happen to Webervations now that you own it. They just want to be heard. They don't want to be insulted for complaining about a price increase anymore than you want to feel beat up for offering a product designed to help them.